Russia.

[stormbringer3]

After Russia surrenders the Germans and Austrians have large forces deployed on that front. Is there any good reason to declare war on Russia again and take more of the country?
Thanks for any opinions.

[Bylandt11]

You can't DOW Russia after the armistice. Anyway, what woould be the point? If you want Russia completely,just dont accept the Brest-Litovsk treaty.

[stormbringer3]

Thanks for the answer. In my game I turned down Lenin and I never got the Brest-Litovsk Treaty choice. I suddenly got a Russia surrenders message and the war with them was over. I just tried the declare war button and it won't let me because of the armistice you mentioned. Perhaps turning Lenin down took away the treaty choice.

[Bylandt11]

Interesting. So even a normal surrender doesn't result in taking over the whole country? I was considering turning down the Lenin option in my next game, but there doesn't seem to be much point now (except for having no Bolchevik influence in the army, I suppose).

[stormbringer3]

Definitely not. The Ottoman Empire gained some extra territory but the Germans and Austrians went back to their origional borders giving up all their gains. I think that they at least should hold on to their gains. Perhaps a developer will comment about this.

[Xsillione]

Total occupation and plunder only happens if you take the capital (don't know if you need all capitals with multiple ones, or the main one and morale surrender is enough.)

[Sugar]

It's not a question of total occupation, but to surrender, and that's achieved by reaching 0 NM. If the CPs don't accept the treaty after russian NM went to 0 with or without supporting Lenin, why do they get nothing at all, that's the question. What forces should be able to prevent the CPs from keeping what they already occupied in a broken down state?

[stormbringer3]

Looking at the map again the Austrians lost their gains but the Germans kept the areas around Warsaw. The northern areas is where they went back to Memel, Tilsit, Gumbinnen and Johannisburg.

[Xsillione]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

It's not a question of total occupation, but to surrender, and that's achieved by reaching 0 NM. If the CPs don't accept the treaty after russian NM went to 0 with or without supporting Lenin, why do they get nothing at all, that's the question. What forces should be able to prevent the CPs from keeping what they already occupied in a broken down state?

Mostly the fact that it would be crippling for them to try and occupy an area that much (and yes, there should be more partisans forcing you to do this before surrender, even if there was no actual partisans in this war, occupation eats manpower. Also the fact, that it did not happened in this war. None of the losers get occupied, the Ottomans and the AH got dismantled, and Germany punished heavily, but not with total occupation and annexation, like what you want.

Also they get quite a lot (the entire Polish region goes to Germany) and Russia loses territory left and right (Finland and others), if you help the Fins, they even send trade convoy with quite a nice booty.

[Sugar]

I see, sorry if I wasn't clear enough: I didn't want to campaign for a complete occupation, but to compare the situation with the acceptance of the treaty or without.

By accepting Germany gets large parts of Poland and food deliveries from the Ukraine under certain prerquisites (allthough the only producing city is Warsaw iirc) and has to keep 12! garrisons around Warsaw. Any disturbances of these new food deliveries will cause further NM-losses, but Germany doesn't get huge benefits from the newly acquired food deliveries.

Following stormbringers post without accepting the treaty Germany gets the same part of Poland, but not the "downside" of the food deliveries, making it more advantageous, especially if you can avoid spreading communist propaganda (of which I actually don`t know if it happens).

From my perception Germany doesn't gain a lot by beating the Russians, which is kind of unrewarding from a playing perspective, but historically correct. Anyway getting those highly trained troops free for the western front is most probably the final nail in France`s and Italy's coffin.

I guess someone should verify what actually happens and compare the outcomes of not supporting Lenin/Brest Litowsk and the historical situation. Sadly my savegames disappeared after the latest update, otherwise I could do it myself.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Sugar,

Your saved games shouldn't be affected by an update, were you perhaps playing in one language and then another? This might explain it and if you haven't deleted any folders, moving the saved game files from the other language 'Save' folder to the current language 'Save' folder should resolve this for you.

Hubert

[Sugar]

Hi Hubert,

yeah that did the trick, many thx and I really hope you and Bill had some relaxing holidays!

If you're already here, you probably know if the propaganda still has an effect even if Germany didn't support Lenin? IIrc in Breakthrough the effect was even stronger after not supporting Lenin and not accepting the treaty, thus making it more advantageous to follow the historical path.

[BillRunacre]

Hi Sugar

The settings are the same as in the past on this, so the incentive is still there to take the historical path.

[Sugar]

Many thx Bill!

[Hubert Cater]

I really hope you and Bill had some relaxing holidays!

Thanks, it has honestly been a nice break for me to spend extra time with the family [:)]

I hope yours and everyone else's has been great as well [:)]

[Dalwin]

To be honest, the current arrangement is more beneficial in the short term for the CP than the proposed alternative. The industrial and financial gains for occupying some border regions is more than offset by the need to garrison those. The indigenous populace would not be eager about the occupation and there might even be some hesitance for the Reds to sign an armistice that allows that.

What the CP really wanted is what the game is giving them. An immediate halt to the eastern hostilities so all that manpower can be redirected to the west.

The thing that should perhaps change would be a decision event that allows the CP to disband a few units. Said demobilization would send some factory workers etc. back to their regular jobs and should include a NM boost.

[eightroomofelixir]

German getting Russian Poland and A-H don't have too much gains can be considered historically appropriate, since Poland is the main industrial area and the A-H did not have many territorial claims over Russia.

However, the Germans (Ludendorff-Ober Ost) did try to set up administrative regions in Baltic Countries (and kept them under the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk), they also gave Bessarabia to Romanians in spite the fact that they were initially not at the same side of the war. It is possible that even if Lenin did not create another revolution in Russia, the German gains would be more or less the same, at least at Ober Ost.

[FightingJuarez]

Hello all - really enjoying this game! I too took a Russia first approach, supported Lenin and just signed the B-L Treaty. In terms of garrisoning Poland (for the grain supplies from Ukraine), I have a couple of questions:
1. Is there a magic number (between 6 and 12)
2. Must the garrison be completely German or can AH units help meet the requirement?
Other related questions:
3. Are there any other reasons to keep German or AH units on the E-Front?
4. What are alternative fronts you deploy AH units too? (Note: I optioned the treaty with Italy that keeps them out of the war)
5. Are there optional fronts for the Germans? (WF is too crowded, and assuming no front through Italy)
6. Is there way in the game to scroll through previous messages (like the Poland garrison requirement) to refer back to?

Sorry for the multiple questions and thanks in advance for any advice!

[Sugar]

1. From my understanding the effect on NM is related to the number of units; the more the better up to 12. At this time you should easily be able to spare 12 dets. and/or surviving cav..
2. I guess so.
3. Nope, except an invasion of Romania.
4. Invade GB, USA and Spain, or whatever you like.
5. Send the boys back home, if war is won.
6. Not as far as I know, but there's usefull information in the strat. guide for every decision event. The manual is available from the surface ingame.

[BillRunacre]

Just to add that every Strategic Advice Pop Up can be seen at the end of the Strategy Guide.