Japanese Garrisoning Ports and Islands....a problem?

[incbob]

First, the changes made to the 1941 startup have really done the job. The Japanese can do what they need to do, but they don't steam roll. The Japanese player now has to really start to watch how and when they do things as they no longer have infinite resources to do all that they want at the beginning of the game.

So, now that I can see the middle of the game I see a potential problem.


The Problem.
WPP has naval/air interception only happening at the end of a fleets movement. This means an enemy fleet can sail right next to you big bad fleet, right beside your naval air power island, and nothing will happen because nothing is checked until the fleet ends its turn and moves to its final destination. This is fine, but it sets up a situation where Japan has to garrison many islands and ports.

Example:
Japan completely controls the Solomon Islands, New Hebrides, and Paupu New Guinea. The Allies can sail a fleet right through the Solomon's, past any naval air units or fleets, and right around New Guinea and invade Wejak. If Japan moves a unit from some other place the garrison Wejak then the Allies can just bypass it and invade where there are no units.

This creates a situation where Japan has to garrison everything or the Allies just walk in without any resistance. The start of the 1941 scenario and the start of the 1942 scenario gives the Japanese a lot of 1-4 STR land units that are used to do these garrisons. The problem is that the Japanese player is not allowed to create these units and he cannot divide divisions to create these units.

As far as I can tell the only thing Japan can do is build full strength divisions. This also is a problem because just to build a basic division will cost about 1/3 of Japan's production. You build 2-3 divisions and you cannot build anything else.

[stjeand]

I will address this in the historical scenario...

Mostlikely convert the Japanese Mtn troop into a 2/5 or a 2/10 so that they can buy them cheaply and put them in locations.

BUT it will only work well in PBEM...to many small units are not handled well by the AI, if I remember Alvaro saying so at some point.
But not decided on which yet.

I still have no issues taking the DEI out on turn 1...but the Philippines is more of a fight now.

[miljkovics]

ORIGINAL: stjeand

I still have no issues taking the DEI out on turn 1...but the Philippines is more of a fight now.

I wonder how you did that [:)] ?
With starting disposition of forces I was able to take it on turn 3 with landing 12th army (that should go to Philippines) near Batavia on turn 2, and attacking with army, SNLF and mxd brigade on turn 3.

Couldn't find any better option to do capture DEI so far.

[stjeand]

Maybe something is wrong with my 1941 scenario...
I have been modifying it but always saved it with a different name.

I take it with the 2 marines at sea west of Borneo.
To take it...land a marine east of Batvia, and one west. The one west has to move 1 hex so only has 1 attack. Move a destroyer down to supply one of them and another ship to supply the other. Move down the CA and 3 DD near Hong Kong next to Batvia to naval bombard.
Attack with the 2 marines...I have yet to lose but only tested it 4 times...maybe there is a way.

They do not appear to have been moved in my version.

My Pacific 1941.scn file
Created May 10, 2021
Modified May 31, 2021
6.81 MB

Can someone verify?

This was why I changed the scenario in the historical version.

1) To get supply in the DEI the Japanese must own, Singapore, Manilla, and Borneo (all 4 ports). That is not possible to do for at least 3 turns.
2) DEI has 3 moral cities all must be taken, Surabaya, Batvia, Palembang.

[miljkovics]

Strange you can do it only with 2 marines with new patch.
With previous version of game it was really easy to do it as you described, but now...it takes fully supplied army, brigade and SNLF (with naval bombardment) and 2 attacks to dislodge Batavia defenders.
And that's why I land more troops to capture Surabaya first with capturing whole road up to Batavia before attacking Batavia's defenders.
At least that is my experience with new patch [:)]

[stjeand]

Previous version I could do it with 1 marine ab out 80% of the time.

I guess I would need someone to validate the file to see if something is up with it.
I never modified it...not sure how to validate the version was not "edited".

[AlvaroSousa]

There is a chance you take Batavia in one shot but it is very low. It is not worth the risk. The units will die being out of supply.

You might have the wrong version. I tried to take them out a good 5 times and I couldn't in testing.

[stjeand]

You might have the wrong version. I tried to take them out a good 5 times and I couldn't in testing.

Is there a way to update the scenario only or get the new one?

I always send ships down to "supply" my units there so...I would not be out of supply on turn 2...but might get dangerous.


I am checking the unit in the editor now...

Entrenched 2.
STR 10
Experience 40%
Anti-Tank 1941...

Is that all correct?

[stjeand]

So in testing...

4th time I did not take it in first attack but did on second.

2 marines land...the 70% Experience ones. 45,34 and 43,35
Then send a DD down that was stacked with one to supply 1 of them.
Then send down 2 torpedo boats to supply the other.
Then send down the fleet in 47,59 to naval bombard.

First attack 5/1
Second attack 4/1

DID fail my first attack as I said above but took it with the second...then landed the Division there.



NOT saying anything is broken...

Just wanted to see I will still take it turn 1 for sure.

IF you want that to change then something else will need to be done.
IF that is okay then no complaints.

The Japanese have more than enough LC to do this and land in Borneo and land in the Philippines and start island hopping.

MY worry is that people can now make a run for India still.

Were there any updates to India to protect them?

Three armies landing on turn 3/4 is unstoppable in Bombay.

[stjeand]

So I finally did fail to take DEI...
2 turns of rain.

Will have to test some more.


But that is 1 out of 5...

[YueJin]

Agree with stjeand. There's about an 80% chance to take Batavia on turn 1 from my experience in the latest patch, only failed in one PBEM game and to be fair it did slow Japanese expansion down fairly significantly since I wasn't prepared for it but it's easily planned for in the future.

I've been forcing myself to take Ceylon first as a speed bump before landing at Bombay/Madras/Mangalore and it's made little difference really. Ceylon falls in one turn due to the pitiful strength of the garrisons and then the ports the UK HQ didn't garrison fall the turn after. The bugged landing craft cost for Japanese armies makes shifting the HQ at Bombay very costly though so it takes a little longer. India still falls if the Japanese player really wants it though.

Really think at least two of the Indian port garrisons should be buffed up to 10/10 strength to make capturing the major ports much more of a serious undertaking instead of a cakewalk.

[eskuche]

Thread going offtopic a bit, but you can skim a LOT of units from China and small islands. Especially if you keep naval superiority, it is impossible for the Allies to actually establish a beachhead anywhere that's not New Guinea. Hopping west Australia with a 1-2 strength unit will let you keep the Java garrison to a minimum, as long as you're keeping a bit of track of enemy ground counters.

Allies also don't know (without reloading or COMINT) which garrison units are low strength (relevant if you're garrisoning offensive ports to keep supply usage down).

Edit: my China garrison is usually Shanghai and whatever is needed to keep one rail line operative and zero partisan spawn, so like 7 units.
Edit 2: reinforcing Manchukuo armies lets you skim off 2 additional divisions from there per army.