Your First Wargame?

[Firefly]

Thanks for posting that link, Custer, I have seen the article before, but couldn't find it to include in my post.

[Aztek]

Wow thank you for that link.

I still have a few shelves in my hobby room with 30 or so Boardgames. The rest of the shelves are full of miniatures and computer game boxes. I still on occasion pull one down and rifle through the box while waitng for something to download on my computer thinking of those days in the late 70s and early eighties staying up until the wee hours of the morning playing Squad leader or Fire in the East with my old gaming buddies.

Its sad how it went down the crapper.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

That article was indeed a fine read, and pretty well on the mark in so many ways.

I disagree on a few comments, but most are minor, and I think only as a result of that article possibly being old now. It appears to be dated 1996, and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then.

Most forum regulars will likely recall or know of the spirited debates over hex vs no hex, and turn vs real time. Then there is the debate over board vs computer. And of course the contest between those thinking wargaming is dying vs those that think it is merely evolving.

I have been wargaming myself more or less constantly since Tactics II. I have seen companies come and go, watched magazines become staples and then fade away.
I have watched wargamers lament how the new upstart hobby rolegaming was stealing away wargamers. Then years later watched rolegamers lamenting that card junkies were ruining rolegaming.
Simultaneously, computers were battering away at both board wargames and paper and pencil rolegames.

But when you look from the outside in, or the inside out, some details need to be mentioned.
Modern society is not hundreds of years old.
Most of our beloved hobbies are all crammed into a span of time approximately 60 years in duration.
It is not like any one hobby is destined to last forever. There is no reason to believe that any one hobby CAN last for ever.

Of all my interests, only one has a time line of centuries. I love to read. People have been reading a long time.
But then wait, most don't realise that paperbacks have not exactly been around all that long either. Heck even common literacy was once not so common.

I have been a woodworker most of my life, it's about the only interest I have not really a hobby, that truely can be said to have been around a loooooong time.

Board gaming I think has become to fancy for its own good.
Computer wargames have become to fancy for their own good.
Computer rolegames probably have best benefited from advances in graphics, because I personally think graphics in them make the difference.
Ordinary run of the mill console games and non hardcore wargames don't have to fret over issues the way wargames due.
I can't recall for instance thinking that the game play in Final Fantasy was suffering from to much interest in graphics.

But I remember buying wargames in the beginning. Modest rules, modest counters, modest map, mega fun. Those games were great, because they delivered.
But even I can admit, that a good number of my last wargames bought (during my better earning years) were a lot more fancy than was required, and a lot more complex than required, and unfortunately, all that fancy and all the complex also resulted in a lot more expensive both the make and to buy.

There are VERY few wargames in my collection that are overly fancy, overly complex, overly expensive and actually very definitely worth it.

I own Advanced Third Reich. Man what an awesome wargame. The rules are incredibly detailed, you so completely feel the grand strategy while playing it. But the components are basic. The map was not overly elaborate. And the price tag was well in reach.
Currently the game has moved to the ultimate expression called A World at War and has attempted to be all of A3R and Rising Sun and everything in between as well as selling at 175 BUCKS!! US.
I don't know about the rest of the market, but as much as I would love to have that game, spending 175 bucks US plus shipping and handling, on virtually anything hobby related is GREATLY unlikely in my world.

A World at War is definitely the ASL of that game system.

Speaking of ASL, as much as I like ASL, Squad leader, just Squad Leader is the game with the fame. ASL would not exist without someone having done Squad Leader first.
I agree with that article, ASL would have been still born if sold immediately as ASL with no previous history, regardless if it could be marketed free of errata or curious supplies incongruities.
I think if 20 years ago you attempted to market A World at War with no prior material and for 175, you would also have a dead game.

Which is why I think wargaming needs to examine it's earlier successes more thoroughly.

For everyone saying their hyper cool, graphically intense, real time, super duper online multi user ultimate wargame is the best thing since sliced bread, I say this....Perhaps sliced bread was cool, because it was humble and gave us what we needed without anything we had never asked for.

I look back at what we call the best wargames of all time, and all I see are games that were incredible simple looking unassuming designs.
I can't think of a single "classic" that was ever done, that was "ultra" anything.

All of the best wargames, could be enjoyed by ANYONE as well. If you can't get joe nobody playing your wargame, then odds are it won't be a classic any time soon.
Heck there are computer wargames out there that are to much even for this grognard let alone joe nobody.

Wargaming has lost the ability to understand the well known KISS principle, and if it dies, it will be because of that more than anything else I think.

[Dan Bozza]

First Avalon Hill wargame I ever owned was Panzer Leader. Got it for christmas of 1980. I had originnaly wanted Panzer Blitz but mom didnt know the differance. Picked up PB a few years later and think mom made the right choice. Always have njoyed PL over PB. Still have that original copy =)

My first wargame ever was Panzer Leader, and I have to agree with you, I liked it much better than PanzerBlitz. It seems like a lot of mention is made of PB over PL. I'm curious to know, why do people like PB better than PL? Once the Commodore 64 came out, my board game buying days were numbered. Halls of Montezuma was a particular favorite, especially since you could design your own terrain tiles and unit symbols.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

PB enjoys fame over PL probably the same way SL enjoys fame over ASL.

PB set thee stage, it was a defining moment in wargaming. PL refined the game a lot, but it wasn't the originator.

I too think PL was a better game.

[Frank W.]

[QUOTE=Marc Schwanebeck]i

Now honestly, the first two (got them same time) I also seriously played where "Kampfgruppe" (SSI) and "Panzergrenadier" (SSI). Both on the C 64. /QUOTE]

yep. i think kampfgruppe was the one, too in my case.

i had no real understanding how to handle it these times, so
i first tried some more common, lighter games as silent service,
defender of the crown and pirates, also kaiser probably only
known to german people.

but i than came back to the real wargames after some time.
i remember a "tobruk" for example. also theatre europe and
crusade in europe...memories...

but still one of my faves red lighning on amiga and of course
second front now called war in russia.

arrggh.. forgot harpoon and USAAF and....? can´t remember
a naval game with very poor graphic in this you could play
sea battles from ww1 and 2..."battleship" perhaps ?

[MasterBlaster]

Hmmm, not a "real" wargame, but my first encounter was "Red Storm Rising" on the C64. After that I went on to Silent Service and eventually got Mech Brigade.

Something in that lines would be cool again. NATO vs. WP in the mid 80s. I´m dying for this stuff

[Paul Vebber]

Les - the rules for World at War are available online - here is the naval section:

http://www.aworldatwar.com/rules/Rules04.pdf

[FriendlyFire]

My very first wargame (non-computer) was "Risk" (and "Airfix" ).

My first computerbased wargame was "Panzer Strike" (C64). This game was very nice (predecessor of "Typhon of Steel" ) and it possessed many similarities to Steel Panthers. The "Briefing Manual" was quite useable for SP1, concerning weapon-data.

Greets

[KGrob]

Avalon Hill's Afrika Korps (or however it was spelled). It was a boardgame -- long before they had personal computers guys. I was hooked.

Now, I'm a total life-long Grognard geek dweeb -- and proud of it.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Too young for board games -started with the C64. First wargames must have been 'Blue Max' and 'Destroyer', first genuine strategy game was 'Crusade in Europe' - the Auftragstaktik for movement orders in this game is still unmatched. Found a PC emulation for CiE recently - I cannot keep in mind my girlfriend's birthday, but had little trouble remembering the copy protection passwords after almost 15 years of intermission, LOL!

[madflava13]

"Tank" on Atari
Red Storm Rising and then a lull - Harpoon got me in for the rest of my life though. I had two of the Board Games as well... Only one kid ever played me though, so I boxed them up when I moved away.

[KG Erwin]

My first wargame was Avalon Hill's Stalingrad, back in '67 or '68. (The original release was in 1963, I believe). I was only 10 or 11, and I had my dad read the rules to me, bless his heart. He never quite got it, but once I understood the basic concepts, I was hooked for life. Around that same time I got a Ballantine paperback copy of Heinz Guderian's "Panzer Leader". It struck me when I found that Guderian and I share the same birthday (June 17). I still have both of these, along with a later second edition of Stalingrad, and many other board wargames which now only occupy space in a closet.

[KGrob]

Oh ya, baby. Stalingrad.

That was one of my first ones too. It was a classic. Maybe THE classic of the time.

Ya, I'll never forget that one. It was easy to play, very fluid, and could vary greatly from game to game. It hooked a lot of people -- helped turn many of us into lifelong Grognards.

[KG Erwin]

Were pretty cool, with the red Russians and the blue Germans. I loved those killer Panzer stacks with the 8-8-6s and 7-7-6s, and a 3-3-4 infantry grunt as a soak-off. However, the Russkies had those 6-9-6s and the two 7-10-4s, which always seemed to be in the way of a breakthrough. I played against others and solo with this one, and it just turned into a slugfest. The early replacement rates always favored the Russkies, and the snow months--aaggh. I always seemed to roll a six at 2-1 odds. Should've used weighted dice. Aah, nostalgia.

[Zakhal]

My first "true" wargame, crusade in europe. I played it with a joystick.





It looks even crappier than i remember. Those days though it was one of the best (and few) wargames i had on my tape 64.

[chief]

played with 52 tablets, which were divided equally among the players and was simply high tablet wins......the hardest thing about the game was chiseling in the original numbers, four times each, from II to X and A, K, Q, J in those clay tablets. Great exercise when mixing them up. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[msaario]

My first "true" wargame, crusade in europe.

Those days though it was one of the best (and few) wargames i had on my tape 64.

Still is one of the best

I have the Apple II floppies safely stored along with Decision in the Desert, Kampfgruppe, War In Russia, Gary's South Pacific game and so on.

Today I can play it on my mobile...

--Mikko

[Hagen]

Spitfire 1940 CBM64
First "sim" and wargame.

[Just Play]

Having been a figure wargamer from the age of 8, following the Airfix plastic to metal route, the first boardgame I ever played was AH's "Afrika Korps" in 1972. I played Rommel and won, and thought that this was a good thing. Thus began the hobby that now has countless hundreds of games stored in my loft (insured for £5,000!) waiting for my grand sons to be born - I have 2 daughters who I couldn't really play with.

The first computer wargame I played was Chris Crawford's "East Front 1941" on Atari 400. I then played just about every game produced by SSI and SSG on just about every computer system.