SOLVED 3.2.0 Rebase Overrun

[Angeldust2]

Endgame situation. It is EoT MJ45. Germany has just been conquered. German ships on map, in construction pool and in repair pool become Japanese. Ex-German, now Japanese ships in formerly German ports in Germany (but not in german conquered countries like Norway, Denmark, Crete) are to be rebased as if overrun. When "in hand", they get destroyed by the program, including an info box with explanation.

But there is one last ex-German SUB at sea in Bay of Biscay, which is also to be rebased. I cannot find a port for it. And with out rebasing this SUB first, I cannot end the phase, it seems, so I am stuck.

Any hints? How to destroy/remove a ship "in hand"?

Before there was a situation when Manchuria was conquered. Magically remaining Japanese units had to be teleported out of their besieged positions and reappeared in still Japanese-controlled hexes in Korea and China. There was information about nearest hexes in the command line, but it took me some time to discover it.

Now for this SUB, it shows Norwegian ports as "Neutral Country" in the command line, but the hex control flags are still German and there are other Japanese ships still in these ports.

What do I have to do to be able to move on?

[Angeldust2]

My opponent and me finally agreed on this workaround:
We loaded an autosave and Germany rebased this SUB to Norway, instead having it staying at sea. For the GE/JP player nothing changed, as the SUB seems now to be interned in a neutral Norway, but we can continue the game into the last turn JA45.

I still would like to know, how to kill a unit in order to be able to progress to the next phase. Is there not an option to remove units while "in hand" using BACKSPACE? How does it work?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Angeldust2

My opponent and me finally agreed on this workaround:
We loaded an autosave and Germany rebased this SUB to Norway, instead having it staying at sea. For the GE/JP player nothing changed, as the SUB seems now to be interned in a neutral Norway, but we can continue the game into the last turn JA45.

I still would like to know, how to kill a unit in order to be able to progress to the next phase. Is there not an option to remove units while "in hand" using BACKSPACE? How does it work?

You can't do that. It's against the rules of the boardgame. So there is no option available (except for debug purposes for the test team).

[Angeldust2]

I understand, thanks.

Please see post #1 in this thread. It seems to me a critical bug, as the game cannot continue to the next phase, if a naval unit staying at sea get transferred to another Major Power on same side during Rebase Overrun disgression caused by conquest, while such unit cannot reach any port of its new home country.

[paulderynck]

I believe there's a function key that lists the available ports that a chosen unit can return to, maybe there's a non-obvious port the sub can reach?

Also a ship can remain at sea until it goes down to the zero box. Is the sub in the zero box yet?

[Angeldust2]

During the SaS Phase the SUB moved down from /2 to /1. During the Conquest phase the German SUB was first transferred to Japanese control and then had to undergo a Rebase Overrun, even being still at sea.

[Angeldust2]

Hello Paul,

when I use CTRL+M (Command>Show Valid Moves) with the SUB in hand, it shows no valid ports to go. As the phase cannot be advanced, it is a game-stopping bug.

[Orm]

What happens if you use 'esc' with the unit in hand?

[Angeldust2]

The SUB is placed back into the seabox section. Phase cannot be advanced.

[Orm]

Yea. Backspace should have been the key to do the trick if at all possible. But that was already tried.

As I understand the phases the SUB should have been allowed to stay at sea to the next end of turn.

[Angeldust2]

No, I don't think so. SaS and RtB phases have already been passed before. The SUB was still German controlled during SaS. Only later, during conquest, it was transferred from German control to Japanese control. And after that transfer, there was a Naval Abort Disgression. In this disgression, Japanese controlled ex-German naval units in ports in Germany were removed with message, no valid port available. Newly Japanese controlled ex-German naval units in now neutral countries like Norway or territories like Crete are still shown in these neutral counties, who also show still German control flags in all their hexes, despite being now neutral. Only newly controlled Japanese ex-German naval units at sea are causing this problem, as they have no valid port to go to. IMHO they should be treated by the program exactly like the naval units in German ports: to be removed with same explaining message

[Orm]

If we focus only on the SUB at sea.

The SUB should do the following:
- During stay at sea it remain at sea.
- During conquest it changes to Japanese.
- During conquest ships at sea stays at sea.
- It can not be overrun at sea so it remains as a Japanese SUB at sea.
- In the stay at sea phase it will need to check for ports in range in order to be allowed to stay at sea. Or return to a Axis port. And destruction seems likely at this point.
- But the next stay at sea is not until next end of turn.

Am I correct in all of this?

If so, then I suggest that the SUB should remain in the sea box as a Japanese SUB. And its status should not be checked again until it suffers a result, or a stay at sea check.

[Angeldust2]

Okay, I agree to your suggestion. So the SUB should stay at sea as a Japanese naval unit, as long as it can in future SaS phases.
But then the phase must be advanced, with the SUB still at sea, not to be affected by the Naval Abort Disgression after reflagging from German to Japanese.
The real problem/bug is the phase not advancing, not the fate of the SUB.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yea. Backspace should have been the key to do the trick if at all possible. But that was already tried.

As I understand the phases the SUB should have been allowed to stay at sea to the next end of turn.

No, if there was no valid port for the SUB to return to, it should immediately be destroyed.

WHEN YOU CAN'T RETURN TO BASE

Destroy any unit (checked individually) that has no base to return to. It makes no difference if a unit couldn’t return to base because it was out of range or was blocked by naval movement restrictions (see 8.2.10 and 11.4.4). Clarification: You cannot return to base to a port you could not normally make a naval move into.

Destroy any unit at sea that couldn’t have returned to base (even if it could stay at sea Clarification: Infinite naval units may remain at sea provided at least 1 space (i.e., at a minor port) is available to which they could have returned to base.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

No, if there was no valid port for the SUB to return to, it should immediately be destroyed.

You are correct in the rule. You are just in the wrong place in the turn sequence. Conquest is after the return to base step.

-> Return to base -> SUB remains at sea
-> Conquest -> SUB become Japanese
-> SUB is forced to rebase from the sea area by MWIF -> This is a BUG because the SUB should remain at sea until next end of turn

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

No, if there was no valid port for the SUB to return to, it should immediately be destroyed.

You are correct in the rule. You are just in the wrong place in the turn sequence. Conquest is after the return to base step.

-> Return to base -> SUB remains at sea
-> Conquest -> SUB become Japanese
-> SUB is forced to rebase from the sea area by MWIF -> This is a BUG because the SUB should remain at sea until next end of turn

I agree.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

there is one last ex-German SUB at sea in Bay of Biscay, which is also to be rebased. I cannot find a port for it.

Do you have a saved game for this? It would be quite difficult for me to recreate otherwise.

[Angeldust2]

This is a file from the Build Units phase, the last opportunity I was able to save a file before Conquest subphase.

DISCLAIMER: After using the hidden function F11, the program showed me several ports in South East Asia, which are still Japanese controlled and to where the SUB in Bay of Biscay could surprisingly return to base.

[Angeldust2]

Paul, I was now able to follow your hint using F11 to find several Japanese controlled ports in South East Asia, where the newly reflagged SUB in Bay of Biscay could return to base to, thanks!

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Angeldust2

This is a file from the Build Units phase, the last opportunity I was able to save a file before Conquest subphase.

DISCLAIMER: After using the hidden function F11, the program showed me several ports in South East Asia, which are still Japanese controlled and to where the SUB in Bay of Biscay could surprisingly return to base.

Well. Then that is a bug as well. Good that you could continue. [:)]

I would however not classify this as fixed as I am pretty sure that there is at least one bug here that needs looking into.

Edit: 254 movement points and awesome range. That is a heck of a super SUB. [X(]