Air Combat test scanrio 14 Allied

[USSMaine]

End of November 1942

Plane Type Number Lost
==========================
Allied Dive Bomber 87
Japanese Dive Bomber 114
Allied Fighter 261
Japanese Fighter 476
Allied Fighter Bomber 373
Allied Float Plane 31
Japanese Float Plane 121
Allied Heavy Bomber 28
Allied Medium Bomber 51
Japanese Medium Bomber 200
Allied Recon 6
Japanese Recon 10
Allied Torpedo Bomber 14
Japanese Torpedo Bomber 68
Allied Transport 32
Japanese Transport 1


totals:
air-air: 600-426
ground: 25-109
flak: 86-157
ops: 172-298

sorties: 63,384-74,799

Japanese capital ships lost include:
confirmed: Zuikaku, Junyo, Hei, 3xCA, 3xCL
unconfirmed: Zuiho, Chikuma

No Allied capital ships have been lost although S.Dakota limped into Luganville with 88 floatation damage (after being raided by UNESCORTED Betties at Irau - though I had enough cap but was wrong) and both Wasp and Saratoga are nursing bomb hits from Vals.

The 2 working P38 squadrons I have are doing great needless to say - when I can keep their morale above 60 and fatigue below 30ish - although this is hard with the press on Lunga that the IJN has been making.

Coming soon - a bar graph (I hope)

[USSMaine]

Here's a really bad graph.... but it does enlighten me that I am way too careless with my P39s......

[HMSWarspite]

I posted August on another thread, but here is my historical vs Jn AI first 2 months
End Aug air losses (US:JN) 112:175 (66,11,5,30:63,19,28,65). Notable losses:
32 F4F-4, 12 F4F-3, 31 P39D (both US & RAAF), 9 P40E, 7 SBD, 6 B17
6 Seagull rest <5

61 A6M2, 46 Betty, 14 A6M3, 12 Jake, 11 Val, 10 Kate, 7 Mavis
5 Alf, rest less

End Sept 343:516 (225,20,28,70:190,25,64,237). The Jn op losses are terrible, but most of these are damaged a/c on the way home: the pure weather/training losses have never been that bad. A-A is just in Jn favour - I have been having lots of 60+ escort Betty raids on Lunga and PM. The results in losses are pretty terrible for the IJN!
235 A6M2! 59 A6M3 9 Oscar
76 Betty, 30 Nell
26 Kate 18 Val
21 Jake

94 F4F-4 (brunt of Lunga defense - generally lose slightly on pure a-a, but ahead if ops on way back count!
73 P39D (nuff said!)
81 P40E (both AF - working hard now, Lae closed down for Jn)
10 Beaufort
17 SBD
6 B17 ( been saving them this month - B26s doing the work, and very well too!)


I make this 249 Allied fighters vs 303 IJN/A, and c 30 vs 106 bombers!

Just to show I have been fighting hard, ship losses (US:IJN)
AP 2:6, APD 3:3, CA 1:6! DD 5:4, SS 2:1, others 7:3
(Still no CV battle, despite chasing them halfway to Truk on one occasion - dented a couple of BB though!)

I have 3 aces (1 KIA), and sqd scores are:
VMF224 27, 223 16, 121 16, 212 6 (The F4F-3 - had to pull them out due to no repl!)
36FS 4, 80FS 2, 7FS 1, 8FS 27, 39FS 7, 35FS 6, 40FS 4
75Sqd RAAF 19, 76sqd 14, 30sqd (B'fighters) 1 - got an Oscar a-a for no losses!)

Please can someone tell me where I am going wrong - I can't get super Bettys, or super IJN Pilots!

[mogami]

Hi, Interesting to me that there has been no counter posts and this thread has been around long enough for anyone to have played several months.
I think the IJN Bias claims have two points of origin.
First, One or two missions by Japanese early in game
Second Allied players not fighting the Japanese and allowing the Japanese to make unopposed strikes or mass attacks. It's important for the Allied player to oppose the Japanese whenever possible to prevent their being able to amass a large rested well trained airforce. The Japanese cannot sustain the air battle it is a great mistake to give it time to prepare or operate unopposed. The Allies do have to bite the bullet for a very short period early on. But they can wear out the Japanese and make good their early deficet.

Well done Warspite.

[USSMaine]

So true .... like Warspite I never saw the "Super Betty" even though I got hurt on a couple of occasions by long range Betty strikes - when it happened it was my fault with too small a cap. And wearing down the Japanase LBA seems to be the key.

[mdiehl]

There's a lot to that "wearing down" effect. I started scenario 14 again last night (not because of air combat but because I'm still figuring out the mechanics of getting TFs to load and go when I want them to). Suckered he Rabaul Betties into fighting at Moresby and Gili Gili. Initial "destroyed" counts were low in A-A combat but in general, CASUALTIES were low for both sides. But the "damaged" counts on the Betties were rather high. I suspect "ready planes" have been dropping precipitously at Rabaul because the ratio of Zekes to Betties in their air strikes is going through the roof. I'm seeing strikes of 6 Betties escorted by 23 Zekes.

And I don't mind that at all, because it means my F4Fs shoot down more Zekes. I'm not seeing the horrid imbalance aleged for scenario 14. Bear in mind that I'm fighting the AI. I'd say it's been challenging, even daunting, but not hopeless, in figuring out how to deal with the 25th AF.

Losses have been low. 1 DMS and 1 lesser AP scuttled, one CA with sys damage, and one DD with 60 flot damage docked up at Lunga. Probably gonna lose that one but at least the crew won't have to swim far when she goes.

For some reason the IJN decided not to play. I kept North Carolina and Co on patrol at Tulagi for 5 days and Japanese TFs did not put in an appearance. Meanwhile near New Guinea there has been a lot of transport action and so forth, but I have sunk several APs and some garden variety patrol craft and subchasers using B26s and A20s.

[Hornblower]

I know the thread is for scenario 14, but I thought that this would be of intrest&#8230;

I&#8217;m playing scenario 19 as the allies against the AI. Its historical, 200% Jap ship commitment, variable.
I turned off the fog of war only to get these numbers..
Date 6/24/42

Losses
Allies Jap
Air/Air: 45 58
Flak: 10 20
DOG: 11 0
Ops: 116 120 - 86 of the us ops are PBY&#8217;s and C-47&#8217;s. Damaged Bombers/fighters for the Japs
Total: 182 198

There has been no direct CV vrs CV Battles. As the USN I was shuttling the Lex and York between Lunga and Gili Gili to hit the Jap AP&#8217;s and stay away from there CV's. Which has worked as I have managed to hold GG and retake Lunga. Allies have lost 20 ships (biggest being 2 dd&#8217;s) and the Japs have lost 37 (2 ca&#8217;s and 2 dd&#8217;s- rest AP/AK&#8217;s)

I have seen massive jap airstrikes at PM and GG, and the 2 times my LRCAP failed at Lunga. Upwards of 120 Betties and Neils daily. (which would account for there High ops loss) When they arrive, because of there size, not many ships are still floating. I don&#8217;t attribute this to &#8220;Super betty&#8221; but to the shear weight of the attacking force, and the LRCAP&#8217;s failure. I&#8217;ve been conservative in the use of my fighters, and thus far am pleased with my results. There has been only one air combat with Zero&#8217;s and F4F-3&#8217;s. I think it was 3 losses for the Japs and 2 for the USN.

I am expecting in the next few days with the activation of Henderson field a large increase in Air to Air losses as the F4F&#8217;s and Zero&#8217;s start to tangle, and I&#8217;ll be foreced to commit the CV&#8217;s to keep the sea lane to Lunga open&#8230;.

[mdiehl]

Qualitative update: still having no trouble fending off the Japanese aircraft in scenario 14. The AI wised up a little, however. Several days passed with no Betty raids, then a 47 plane raid showed up at Lunga with Zekes in train. The air battle was a squabble with two F4Fs downed for 1 A6M, but with three Betties falling as well. Not much damage done by the Betty raid, so I think I may have killed some important pilots in the earlier going.

Had a CV battle finally. One CV intact, one modeslty messed up and almost in Luganville, one trying to win the aggressive flooding battle. If she doesn't capsize she'll make temporary port in that dinky little factor 2 port north of Luganville. In return, Zuiho went under and Shokaku and Zuikaku retired north, on fire, heavily damaged.

Two days later Kongo and Haruna showed up. North Carolina sank Haruna, escaping with nary a dent, but I lost two CAs. Konga took a beating, supplemented by SBDs that fled to Lunga when their carriers stopped being launch-capable. Also, two Japanese CAs took a hammering. It is entirely possible that I will see another 400 points of ship kills in the near future if the AI's ships flood as aggressively as mine.

Meantime, I have an A20 group in Moresby that is running up a good score killing AGs. B17s from Moresby have hit Shortland twice, dropping an egg into a parked CL from 20K.

Not much happening in re submarines. I have managed to keep Jap subs suppressed by shuttling DD squadrons (4 ea) and SC squadrons (4 each) back and forth to my crippled, underescorted CVs as they limp home. One one of these occasions, the 4 DDs caught a submarine and sank it.

[USSMaine]

That little 2 point port may not save the ship.... at least it doesn't always save my ships. But like they say "Any port in a storm"

[Hornblower]

SNR 19.
Its 8/4/42 now and as predicted the Air battles have heated up.
Betty's are hitting PM and or Lunga Daily. There #'s are decreasing now, i'm accounting that to attrition. I've takedn Buna, and taken and held on to Lunga. Bombardment raids are hitting Lunga 2-3 times a week. Field must be pot holed big time. Japanese have landed troops on tassafaranga. And that little meatball flag popped up, so they are supplied enough to create a base. First hulls started to litter the bottom of the Iron Bottom sound. 2 Jap BB's and escorts somehow eluded my nearby carriers and Put 1 CL, 2 DD's 2 AK's and 2 SC's along with @400 troops into the drink. Then 3 CA's followed up and added another AK and 2 DD's. CV's got even when on there way back to Rabaul the SBD's TBF and TBD's hit em. Both BB's sunk along with a CL, 3 DD's and toss in a CA damaged and some DD's. Its going to be a battle of Keeping Lunga supplied, and keeping Tassafaranga unsupplied. Still no Direct CV to CV battles. USN cv's have been suppling LRCAP during this last "Malta run" and have engaged Zero's from Rabaul, and I think Shortlands. That being said, here are the Air losses thus far. SNR 19, Historical, jap 200% commit.

Losses
Allies Japanese
Air/air 166 197
Flak 2 78
DOG 36 2
Ops 211 321
total: 455 598

ships 43/326 pts 116/1182 pts

[RevRick]

And I wish someone would torque up the editor to allow us to fiddle with that one and not have to go back to May 1 for all settings. That would be fun to me. Now, so far as IJ Air goes, just wait a little bit. In Scenario 14, around the end of August/early Sept (usually right after the Sho and Zui make an appearance - which can be managed if one is careful and doesn't go charging off into Rabaul's wheelhouse) the IJN in Rabaul gets about four squadrons of Bettys within a week - and then the fun begins. It depends upon whether you are running historical deployment or not - but at some point the come out of Rabaul like bats out of hell - with a lot of A6M3 and A6M2 cover. There will be some raids beginning about that time on Lunga (especially anti shipping raids) which are 100 Zekes and 70 some odd G4Ms. This will continue for about four weeks, depending upon the persistence of the Ai, and or other opponent. The only think you can do is keep your CAP as fresh as possible - and at some point you will consider:
A. grounding all of it for a turn despite the losses (notably is your port is empty)
B. sending up squadrons of 35-40 morale with 50+ fatigue to keep something between thin hulls and air launched torpedos.

I much prefer it when they turn their attentions on Port Moresby. By late August I can rotate enough fighters in there to keep a decent CAP up when the supply ships arrive, and let them waste bombs the rest of the time with some attrition.

The real bugaboo in this is when suddenly there are 200 fighters in Rabaul - and half of them escort a half a dozen or so Betty's on torpedo runs on ships in port - PM, GG, with escort. AS everyone knows by now, my pet peeve ad infinitum, ad nauseum, are the four-six plane Betty raids on Cairns and/or Townsville - againt CAP which is above the magical bewitching number of 9 - ususally substantially - which act like they are at the local Lions Club turkey shoot. usually about 65-75, sometimes even 100 percent hits, and maybe, if the gods of war are smiling as when Sir Robin's minstrels were eaten - I might see a claim on a Betty. And there is great rejoicing.
One oddity I have noticed, and I have switched sides to check it out - is that after late Nov/Early Dec. on average - against the AI - suddenly the Nells and Betty's thin out - and they wind up replacing at Truk - at an incredibly slow pace - almost as slow as the pace of B17 replacements - and stay there for months. In previous version, several squadrons would be disbanded/withdrawn to provide for more fully complemented squadrons Now they dont.

Sidebar: Hey, can we get some of the B17's to transition to B-24D's. - and can we pick the squadrons which upgrade or transition [Meathead Moore always gets the third P38 Squadron - talk about casting pearls before swine.] And can we stop production of obsolete AC, i.e., TBDs, and slowly, even over the span of a few months change them over to something else - like SBDs. .

And we still need a pick up order for C47s to fly to a base, pick up a unit, and return without attaching themselves to another base.

I'll tell you how far I have gone. I am considering attemtping a PBEM game - which I have never done - if someone could put up with my utterly unpredictable schedule, and the fact that I have to transfer stuff between computers (my wife is using this one for her job search). Somedays I get lots of time (right now clouded by medication and pain, or both) and some times I am tied up with pastoral duties which cannot be skipped. I like SC 14, All doctrines on, Variable reinforcemnts at 140 committment both sides. I don't think I can take on more than one game ATT, and it has to be with someone who is patient.

[mdiehl]

The CV is going to the level 2 port as a stop-gap. If she makes it that far she's 1 move from Luganville I think, and from there I can repair her flot damage.I also have cycled two sys-damaged CAs back to Pearl Harbor, since I have received lately a bunch of CAs as reinforcements.

Everybody at Lunga is working on the airfield and fortifications. As soon as the airfield is up to four, I'm going to fly in a base support unit with radar. Meantime the North Carolina and accompanying CAs and DDs will linger south of Guadalcanal on "react." I'm considering establishing a seaplane base near Guadalcanal and am looking for a suitable hex. Will send there a base support unit and some engineers and supplies. When I've got AF2, there will be few fighters, an AV, and PBYs. Should allow me to cover the flank NE of Guadalcanal with some decent naval search capacity.

I figure the Japanese CVs are out of the fight more or less as long as mine. Caveat is that I have one good CV immediately available. Don't want to risk it, however, unless things get desperate or if another Japanese CVL starts nosing around.

[HMSWarspite]

Everybody at Lunga is working on the airfield and fortifications. As soon as the airfield is up to four, I'm going to fly in a base support unit with radar.

You'll find that the radar no fly so good, you can fly in the rest, but the radar has to go by sea (no problem, simply use a FT TF with an APD or something - my favourite BF transfer regime!)

I usually ship in the whole thing, more risky, but usually I need the supplies in Lunga, so a convoy goes anyway. This run is the last one where I use the CVs as LoRCAP unless I know the baddies are out. I rely on Lunga Cap once the airstrip is operational (obviously!). However, flying it in is safer (but where from?)