A Japanese invasion of Hawaii

[warspite1]

If, as Grigsby says, carriers are worth 10x battleships, the plan is a no brainer.

warspite1

The sentence that provides all I need to know. I am sorry to say you simply don't have a clue.

[Curtis Lemay]

Compare this "hardship" to being a Kamakaze!

warspite1

So you relate everything to kamakazes????? Pathetic.

Because it's crushing to your point.

[Curtis Lemay]

The carriers are providing fighter cover. And the aircraft on Oahu are being smashed.

warspite1

Hilarious. You simply can't get your story straight. You've changed this so many times its embarrassing. The KB remain off HI providing air cover, then the KB are sailing away as per history, then the KB are providing assistance to the Midway landings. It's all muddled nonsense.

The Bettys can be timed to arrive with the first strike. Later, the carriers will have zeros left on Maui.

[Curtis Lemay]

The idea that he intended his carriers to be torched in the Pearl raid is insane.

warspite1

When did I say anything like this? Don't you dare put words in my mouth.

Someone else did, though.

[warspite1]

We've agreed on two.

warspite1

No, not at all. You couldn't be bothered to detail a requirement so I tried a number to get things kick-started. But if you are saying Yamamoto was so certain about the carriers and their importance (such that he would be prepared to delay a war), then it would make sense that he would insist on two.

I've posted it more than once. Try to keep up.

warspite1

Nope - you simply responded to something I raised - and I raised it because you didn't understand the need to address the point in the first place! But that is your thought process all over - total lack of detail and awareness of what happened historically.

[warspite1]

The idea that he intended his carriers to be torched in the Pearl raid is insane.

warspite1

When did I say anything like this? Don't you dare put words in my mouth.

Someone else did, though.

warspite1

Then respond to them - don't waste my time.

[Curtis Lemay]

If, as Grigsby says, carriers are worth 10x battleships, the plan is a no brainer.

warspite1

The sentence that provides all I need to know. I am sorry to say you simply don't have a clue.

A carrier is worth 10x a battleship. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

[warspite1]

Compare this "hardship" to being a Kamakaze!

warspite1

So you relate everything to kamakazes????? Pathetic.

Because it's crushing to your point.

warspite1

No because its what you believe to be your get out of jail free card. The Japanese on Guadalcanal beat back the US attackers and evicted them from the island because of the spirit of the Kamakaze right?

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

No, not at all. You couldn't be bothered to detail a requirement so I tried a number to get things kick-started. But if you are saying Yamamoto was so certain about the carriers and their importance (such that he would be prepared to delay a war), then it would make sense that he would insist on two.

I've posted it more than once. Try to keep up.

warspite1

Nope - you simply responded to something I raised - and I raised it because you didn't understand the need to address the point in the first place! But that is your thought process all over - total lack of detail and awareness of what happened historically.

Lots of detail and I did say two was the trigger.

[warspite1]

The carriers are providing fighter cover. And the aircraft on Oahu are being smashed.

warspite1

Hilarious. You simply can't get your story straight. You've changed this so many times its embarrassing. The KB remain off HI providing air cover, then the KB are sailing away as per history, then the KB are providing assistance to the Midway landings. It's all muddled nonsense.

The Bettys can be timed to arrive with the first strike. Later, the carriers will have zeros left on Maui.

warspite1

Of course - it's warfare, everything can be timed perfectly. Good grief....

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

So you relate everything to kamakazes????? Pathetic.

Because it's crushing to your point.

warspite1

No because its what you believe to be your get out of jail free card. The Japanese on Guadalcanal beat back the US attackers and evicted them from the island because of the spirit of the Kamakaze right?

Anyone willing to fly a plane suicidally into a ship can handle a stint at sea.

[warspite1]

If, as Grigsby says, carriers are worth 10x battleships, the plan is a no brainer.

warspite1

The sentence that provides all I need to know. I am sorry to say you simply don't have a clue.

A carrier is worth 10x a battleship. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

warspite1

Yes 10x. Not 9x or 11x but 10x because a wargame maker used a subjective number for game play purposes.

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

Hilarious. You simply can't get your story straight. You've changed this so many times its embarrassing. The KB remain off HI providing air cover, then the KB are sailing away as per history, then the KB are providing assistance to the Midway landings. It's all muddled nonsense.

The Bettys can be timed to arrive with the first strike. Later, the carriers will have zeros left on Maui.

warspite1

Of course - it's warfare, everything can be timed perfectly. Good grief....

It doesn't have to be timed perfectly. Just within the time frame of the first strike.

[warspite1]

Because it's crushing to your point.

warspite1

No because its what you believe to be your get out of jail free card. The Japanese on Guadalcanal beat back the US attackers and evicted them from the island because of the spirit of the Kamakaze right?

Anyone willing to fly a plane suicidally into a ship can handle a stint at sea.

warspite1

Lots of embarrassing posts - this one is pretty much the best. So ALL Japanese are the same person???? Every Japanese soldier could endure anything because some Japanese became Kamakaze???? Wow.

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

The sentence that provides all I need to know. I am sorry to say you simply don't have a clue.

A carrier is worth 10x a battleship. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

warspite1

Yes 10x. Not 9x or 11x but 10x because a wargame maker used a subjective number for game play purposes.

Probably more than 10x. Regardless, carriers are far more valuable than battleships. That makes the plan a no brainer.

[warspite1]

The Bettys can be timed to arrive with the first strike. Later, the carriers will have zeros left on Maui.

warspite1

Of course - it's warfare, everything can be timed perfectly. Good grief....

It doesn't have to be timed perfectly. Just within the time frame of the first strike.

warspite1

It does have to be timed perfectly. Too late and the Bettys walk into an alert enemy over Oahu. Too early and the Betty's alert the defenders of Oahu to the incoming carrier strike.

Too early for the landing on Maui and the Bettys land on an airfield in US hands.

Yes, this ridiculously complex 'plan' needed precision. But you don't bother with detail.

[warspite1]

A carrier is worth 10x a battleship. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

warspite1

Yes 10x. Not 9x or 11x but 10x because a wargame maker used a subjective number for game play purposes.

Probably more than 10x. Regardless, carriers are far more valuable than battleships. That make the plan a no brainer.

warspite1

But everyone knows carriers are more valuable than battleships - you don't need to quote Grigsby and a factor of 10x.

But if everyone - and particularly Yamamoto - knew this in 1941 why wasn't your 'plan' adopted?

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

No because its what you believe to be your get out of jail free card. The Japanese on Guadalcanal beat back the US attackers and evicted them from the island because of the spirit of the Kamakaze right?

Anyone willing to fly a plane suicidally into a ship can handle a stint at sea.

warspite1

Lots of embarrassing posts - this one is pretty much the best. So ALL Japanese are the same person???? Every Japanese soldier could endure anything because some Japanese became Kamakaze???? Wow.

The Bushido code was universal.

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

Of course - it's warfare, everything can be timed perfectly. Good grief....

It doesn't have to be timed perfectly. Just within the time frame of the first strike.

warspite1

It does have to be timed perfectly. Too late and the Bettys walk into an alert enemy over Oahu. Too early and the Betty's alert the defenders of Oahu to the incoming carrier strike.

Too early for the landing on Maui and the Bettys land on an airfield in US hands.

Yes, this ridiculously complex 'plan' needed precision. But you don't bother with detail.

They have these things called radios!!! That's how they coordinate.

[Curtis Lemay]

warspite1

Yes 10x. Not 9x or 11x but 10x because a wargame maker used a subjective number for game play purposes.

Probably more than 10x. Regardless, carriers are far more valuable than battleships. That make the plan a no brainer.

warspite1

But everyone knows carriers are more valuable than battleships - you don't need to quote Grigsby and a factor of 10x.

But if everyone - and particularly Yamamoto - knew this in 1941 why wasn't your 'plan' adopted?

So that's the argument: They didn't do it, therefore they couldn't do it. No hypotheticals ever.