Production system - a broad overview

[loki100]

Some quick notes on this, all this is in the manual.
The building blocks are:


1 - Chassis (ie the frames for AFVs and planes) use arms pts in their production (and all are capped in their per-turn production). Over the game the actual model made from a core chassis will vary according to how it is actually fitted out.
2 - the stuff that makes it useable (guns, engines etc) uses supply (ie off HI), this stage is in theory relatively unconstrained but of course you need the chassis first
3 - the rest uses arms pts (so that is anything from artillery to small arms)
4 - but in reality you can ignore HI and Arms Pts in #2, they are a tool to a purpose but no where near the importance they have in #1, as:
5 - most of the generic stuff is built to need but also to a cap (see 28.2.3 of the rules). That cap matters more than anything else as you can't exceed it (they will change over the game - you can find this sort of stuff in the editor)
6 - there is some stuff that is genuinely produced to need but its the sort of small scale weaponry you find in a typical infantry element
7 - in practice? You'll find that both economies are less under your control. I personally think this is good, you are the OKH or Stavka, not Hitler or Stalin
8 - so the Soviet player can indeed build more flexibly but that is a bit of an illusion. You can order as many heavy artillery SUs as you want (up to around 250 if I recall), but you are not going to get them fitted out and on the map (due to the caps)
9 - so given all this, the game design effectively removes all the sub-game around factory evacuation that has become such a feature of WiTE1 play
10 - also in #2 rail cap is local not universal, so the evacuating factories do indeed claim rail cap but its less visible to the player as its more localised

This leads to the role of HI/Supply production in #2. Again in #1 this is mostly a global issue with some localised delivery challenges but the key to the Soviet economic planning is retain enough HI to supply all your needs.

You'll find in #2 that this is a bit of a non-issue but that delivery to location is the real challenge. This is not just in-unit supply its also the supply taken building depots, expanding airfields (esp to size 2 or more) and fortifications > 1. These 3 can be supply demanding and hard to do in poorly supplied regions (here they will be slow due to delivery of supply and/or really cost your combat units supply). So its not really about HI its about depots, rail capacity and delivery. As an eg, you can expand an airbase from 2-3 in a turn if its on or next to a NSS, it can still be doing this in 1945 if the target hex is off on the edge of the supply grid.

[56ajax]

Re Item 1 the manual says otherwise. Chassis and Airframes are built using supply points. See page 334.

The cost of building a chassis is taken as supply points. Each supply point is the equivalent of a quarter ton of supplies and each build cost (for the chassis) demands 1/16 ton of supply. So a chassis with a build cost of 40 will use 2.5 supply points

The manual also states

For example a Bf 109F-4 has a build cost of 388 so requires 388 armament points to produce one such aircraft.

So to convert a chassis/airframe into vehicle/aircraft costs armament points. Note that this is different to WiTE1. Is it correct? I ask as playing as the Soviet in the pool I have 2,428,000 armament points on T19.....

[rob89]

ORIGINAL: loki100

1 - Chassis (ie the frames for AFVs and planes) use arms pts in their production (and all are capped in their per-turn production). Over the game the actual model made from a core chassis will vary according to how it is actually fitted out.
2 - the stuff that makes it useable (guns, engines etc) uses supply (ie off HI), this stage is in theory relatively unconstrained but of course you need the chassis first
3 - the rest uses arms pts (so that is anything from artillery to small arms)

Hi Loki,

I need further explanation.

Mid 43 as German

In the production pool I have a lot of ready airframes and chassis (and also many armament points),
but I'm very short of planes and AFVs. As for the planes, I have a big deficit (with TOE)

When will the game engine decide to transform airframes and chassis into finished products?

thanks in advance

regards

[Denniss]

all vehicles and aircraft have a total and per turn import/conversion limit plus an end date. It won't exceed any of these.
Example: 200 total and 10 per turn, it won't produce 201 or 11 per turn but 10 (or less) until it reaches total or end date.

[PeteJC]

So, given the information above then it should be a priority (among other things) to capture armament production and oil production hexes - correct? So as a Soviet player I should try to defend these hexes for as long as possible?

I know this seems very self-evident, but I am asking because I thought I had read previous posts complaining about how the production system in WiTE2 is broken (as compared to WiTE1 I suppose). I suspect that was posted because it is difficult to see the real affect in WiTE2 as so much is behind the scenes.

[Jango32]

It is irrelevant how many armaments pool hexes and oil producing hexes you capture.

[PeteJC]

It is irrelevant how many armaments pool hexes and oil producing hexes you capture.

So, capturing these hexes does not reduce production and/or oil use/reserves? Why did they even bother with them? Is this WAD or a bug that they just can't seem to be able to fix?

[Jango32]

All I can say, without sparking a conversation that takes place over several pages, is play the game in singleplayer as either side and experiment with it. You can turn off the AI of the opposing side and play its turn(s) as a human any time. You can then take a look at what is happening in the game and draw your own conclusions.

From what I have personally seen and what others have observed (for example Stalingrad to Berlin on YouTube, NightPhoenix's let's play) there is no impact whatsoever. As far as industry is concerned, only specific chassis factories matter like T-34 factories or Bf 109 fighter factories. And even then the only ones that matter for the Soviets are the ones that do not automatically evacuate.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

If you are able to take enough territory quick enough to significantly exceed historical performance of either side then you will likely win by sudden death (or by the opponents army collapsing if no early end).

If you match historical performance then the production system will match historical performance i.e. the Soviets will retain enough capacity to fight back and the Axis will retain enough capacity to fight well into 1945.

So you can probably 'ignore' production to the extent that it largely matches with the VPs that you are aiming for anyway. Bit this does not represent a bug/problem with the game.

[PeteJC]

It just seems like they would tie in the production system with the actual factories (hexes on map that show them). Easy for me to say. I suppose it may be a programming nightmare.