Kovel & Mogilev

[ncc1701e]

In the south, I did not change a lot of things. I have corrected rivers. And the real positions of Orel and of Kursk is now allowing to have a real Kursk saillant for 1943.

Again, I kept the wrong location of Moscow, in red, for comparison.

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[PanzerMike]

The difference is huge. I think most, if not all, other wargames use the more traditional Mercator projection. That makes using them for comparison tricky.

Also, the compression of the area north of Leningrad in the map poses some challenges.

[ncc1701e]

That's why I have bought a Peter map projection. Because I was not understanding how Moscow was located. And I can now clearly say that the map here is completely wrong. Look at Unconditional Surrender that is not using the Mercator projection. Look at the position of Moscow. It is north of Stalino and east of Konigsberg. It is no where near the highlighted position of Moscow in the game.

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[PanzerMike]

Ja, never seen these before. Interesting. Although I am sure a case can be made to use Peter projection for a map, I think I still prefer the more traditional Mercator. I am so used to that, it feels more natural, for lack of a better word. Or familiar.

[AlvaroSousa]

I wanted real distances and putting all of the Nordic countries on a Mercator map scale occupies a lot of space and is difficult to manage for players.

[PanzerMike]

Some games dispense with the Nordic countries and use some abstract mechanism to deal with them. I can understand why.

[ncc1701e]

I wanted real distances and putting all of the Nordic countries on a Mercator map scale occupies a lot of space and is difficult to manage for players.

And that was the right decision. Real distances are important for the size of frontlines.

And, here is the thing. With Moscow not well placed, there are several consequences:

1. Russians are fighting for Bryansk instead of Moscow whereas they can retreat a little more. That's a problem because as a Russian player, Moscow is 25 PP and I don't want to lose it.

2. The current game frontline allow the Germans to put one full infantry corps per hex without using Axis minors.

3. We are basing game balance on wrong assumptions. The Soviets are not able to use the right operational depth to resist the invasion.

I had the feeling the eastern front was not right. Now I know why.

Because with real distances:

1. Moscow is now far, far away. And logistics will really start to have a consequence on effectiveness. A real battle of Smolensk. A real battle of Moscow is now possible.

2. With a frontline multiplied by 1.3 or by 1.6, now we have a real eastern front:

• With Germans needing the Axis minors to man the frontline.

• With Germans needing to split their full infantry corps while progressing deeper and deeper.

• With Germans needing to split their full infantry corps in quiet part of the front to have full infantry corps elsewhere.

• With always the "where the Soviets will attack next time?" question starting 1943.

• With Russians needing to split their armies to man the frontline in quiet sectors.

So ok, I know this is not the perfect timing to discover this and to do this and that you are doing WP2 development. But, what I can propose is that I am doing all the map changes for all the scenario. I will finish all the eastern map with the Ural river included. And that I can adapt the events for all the locations that are impacted by the map modifications (mainly the eastern front anyway).

You can see in the below screenshot that I have taken care of taking exactly the same icon for each Russian cities (manpower and PP) in order to not change the game balance here. New cities added do not provide extra ressources.

Remains the AI. I did not work a lot on it just reading the manual. But the map order will be impacted in the east for sure. And you are the expert here.

That's a proposal. If WP2 map is based on WP1 map, this is also an investment for the future.

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[PanzerMike]

Your corrected map makes a lot of sense. I too was working on a map, but I did not want to change the locations of the major cities and river, because the AI scripts would have to be corrected. Which is a chore. Especially the rivers are used for the AI to determine where to form a defensive line.

[AlvaroSousa]

Rivers are just a mechanism for balance besides the major rivers.

WP2 map will be done differently than WP1 map. I learned a new trick that makes map making a lot easier than before and more accurate.

[PanzerMike]

Do tell

[AlvaroSousa]

An overlay of a map I want to use. I have to do some graphical work but it is much easier than the way I did it the 1st time.

[PanzerMike]

Overlays are the bomb for mapmaking. Always used them when making scenario's for Combat Mission. Huge help.

[ncc1701e]

Well if your overlap is not correct...

But sorry, Moscow is right now 350km for its real location. And the map, north of the Pripyat Marshes, is a kind of battle for middle-earth.

Are we doing something in WP1 or shall we wait WP2?

Maybe that just shocks only me.

[PanzerMike]

I am shocked too

Despite not being very familiar with Peter projection, the USSR always felt off. But I never mustered the courage to investigate and potentially drastically change the map knowing that all the AI scripts would need an overhaul. Ouch.

[AlvaroSousa]

I will examine this in the next patch.

[ncc1701e]

Thanks. Just to be sure, can you copy a map from one scenario to another without redoing it?

[PanzerMike]

That would be heaven, but I don't think so...

[AlvaroSousa]

Thanks. Just to be sure, can you copy a map from one scenario to another without redoing it?

You can change features of the map.

Like in this case you can save the labels and import them no issue.

[aoffen]

I have just been catching up with the forums and am very interested by NCC’s map observations. I agree that the issues with the Soviets not holding out as well as expected could in fact be largely solved by correcting the map more truly reflect Russia’s vast distances. I really hope they can be included in the current game. It would be a big improvement and not require a 3 year rate for WP2.
Cheers
Andrew

[AlvaroSousa]

I took a QUICK look at it last night and really it all depends on how you look at the map. Using google earth rotating it is correct but on different maps it can look incorrect.