Did the latest version change how design rolls work?

[Foolcow]

I'm playing my first game after being away for awhile, and of the eight brand new designs I've made, all of them have structural design rolls above 100. I believe in the old version this was a range from 70 to 130. Did they change how this works, or have I just been extremely lucky with my designs?

[Clux]

I also started a new game to test the new beta and my design rolls were always over 100, I don't know if Vic overall increased the odds of getting good rolls or what, hopefully other players can comment their experiences

[JeanleChauve]

I have started a new game with all models already created and there are structural design from 83->117.
Making considerations on a single test makes no sense in the case of random dice rolls.

[Arralen]

You should consider the fact that pre-rolled design rolls might be different from player rolls ... and having every design roll >100 is quite lucky ... or odd.

[Foolcow]

I have started a new game with all models already created and there are structural design from 83->117.
Making considerations on a single test makes no sense in the case of random dice rolls.

It wasn't a single test, though. Eight independent rolls.

[JeanleChauve]

I have started a new game with all models already created and there are structural design from 83->117.
Making considerations on a single test makes no sense in the case of random dice rolls.

It wasn't a single test, though. Eight independent rolls.

Sorry to have offended you, but throwing 61-sided dice 8 times does not seem to me sufficient to deduce a general behavior. But I am not a statistician and I must be mistaken.

[Foolcow]

Sorry to have offended you, but throwing 61-sided dice 8 times does not seem to me sufficient to deduce a general behavior. But I am not a statistician and I must be mistaken.

You didn't offend me, and I didn't deduce a general behavior. I suspected a general behavior, based on the 1/256 chance of this happening in my first game. That's why I asked here.

[zgrssd]

I'm playing my first game after being away for awhile, and of the eight brand new designs I've made, all of them have structural design rolls above 100. I believe in the old version this was a range from 70 to 130. Did they change how this works, or have I just been extremely lucky with my designs?

Being above or below 100 does not mater much. It only maters by how much.

If the game rolls 3D11+67, you get a range of 70-130. With a much higher likelihood of average results around 100, then extreme rolls near 70 or 130.

Jeanies example is "83->117". Which is "100, +/- 17" range.

[BlueTemplar]

It doesn't matter how wide the distribution is though, rolling 8 times above the average still has the same chance of 1/2^8 = 1/256.

Unless confirmed by someone that you *can* get an mk1 roll of less than 100, there *might* be a new bug here ?

I'm betting on "selection biais" (?) though, you wouldn't notice if it wasn't a streak...

[zgrssd]

It doesn't matter how wide the distribution is though, rolling 8 times above the average still has the same chance of 1/2^8 = 1/256.

Unless confirmed by someone that you *can* get an mk1 roll of less than 100, there *might* be a new bug here ?

I'm betting on "selection biais" (?) though, you wouldn't notice if it wasn't a streak...

I get Initial Structural Design rolls under 100.
However, I do have issues getting below 90 on the first roll, while above 110 seems to be no such issue.

I have only tested 3 Empire gens, same planet, maximum tech (for 15 models per generation).

Edit: And on generation 4, I had several models with STR design below 90. So, confirmation bias I would say.

[Foolcow]

It doesn't matter how wide the distribution is though, rolling 8 times above the average still has the same chance of 1/2^8 = 1/256.

Unless confirmed by someone that you *can* get an mk1 roll of less than 100, there *might* be a new bug here ?

I'm betting on "selection biais" (?) though, you wouldn't notice if it wasn't a streak...

Yes, it was selection bias. This will happen to 1 out of every 256 players, and the other 255 would never post about it.

Thanks to all who responded.

[arvcran2]

If the game rolls 3D11+67, you get a range of 70-130.

Was there a hidden +30 optional bias there? I understand fuzzy math, not sure when folks are employing it or not.

Following math based on assumptions can be somewhat confusing to say the least.

[zgrssd]

If the game rolls 3D11+67, you get a range of 70-130.

Was there a hidden +30 optional bias there? I understand fuzzy math, not sure when folks are employing it or not.

I have no idea what you are asking for here. What is a "hidden +30 optional bias"?
Where would that be in the formula for a 70-130 range?

[arvcran2]

If the game rolls 3D11+67, you get a range of 70-130.

Was there a hidden +30 optional bias there? I understand fuzzy math, not sure when folks are employing it or not.

I have no idea what you are asking for here. What is a "hidden +30 optional bias"?
Where would that be in the formula for a 70-130 range?

The technical term 3D11, I read as being a range between 3 and 33 (rolling a virtual eleven-sided die (dice singular) three times and producing a sum of the face (top) values rolled), adding the maximum 33 to 67 would yield a maximum of 100, but you mentioned 130. Therefore, I assumed there was a hidden +30?

[AnddyiRaynor]

It's weird you guys are making up what you think are the dice rolls(as you already see some calculations done by the game now(most recent posts)). Unless it has changed it is something like (structural design = 70+dth(2,30), I only checked my mod which changes it), 2 dice rolls of 30(that is what it was when I first changed it in 1.10-.11). The lowest roll is probably 72. There is no 11 sided dice, just 2 30 sided ones. You can't buy premium dice rolls, but you can install them.

You could change it to 4D15 or other numbers if you want more random variation but as it was it was 2 dice rolling between 1-30. Which is a variable you can mod to go over 130 if you wish by checking SE_Model. It'd be very easy to use the debug menu and find if it changed.

It'd be great if he changed it to default above 100. Below it makes no sense, these designers would be fired.

[zgrssd]

Was there a hidden +30 optional bias there? I understand fuzzy math, not sure when folks are employing it or not.

I have no idea what you are asking for here. What is a "hidden +30 optional bias"?
Where would that be in the formula for a 70-130 range?

The technical term 3D11, I read as being a range between 3 and 33 (rolling a virtual eleven-sided die (dice singular) three times and producing a sum of the face (top) values rolled), adding the maximum 33 to 67 would yield a maximum of 100, but you mentioned 130. Therefore, I assumed there was a hidden +30?

No, I just fucked up the dice sizes when writing that formula from memory.

3D21 would have to be the proper dice size. Or we need more dice. But I am pretty sure it was 3 dice.

[Thrake]

It'd be great if he changed it to default above 100. Below it makes no sense, these designers would be fired.

Average of 100 makes sense. Then there have to be below average designs to also have average or above average designs... Just like there will always be below average designers no matter how many below average designers you fire.

[BlueTemplar]

It's weird you guys are making up what you think are the dice rolls(as you already see some calculations done by the game now(most recent posts)). Unless it has changed it is something like (structural design = 70+dth(2,30), I only checked my mod which changes it), 2 dice rolls of 30(that is what it was when I first changed it in 1.10-.11). The lowest roll is probably 72. There is no 11 sided dice, just 2 30 sided ones. You can't buy premium dice rolls, but you can install them.

You could change it to 4D15 or other numbers if you want more random variation but as it was it was 2 dice rolling between 1-30. Which is a variable you can mod to go over 130 if you wish by checking SE_Model. It'd be very easy to use the debug menu and find if it changed.

It'd be great if he changed it to default above 100. Below it makes no sense, these designers would be fired.

A minor detail, but can you confirm that whenever the game mentions dice rolls, you can never roll 0 on those dices ?

[AnddyiRaynor]

It's weird you guys are making up what you think are the dice rolls(as you already see some calculations done by the game now(most recent posts)). Unless it has changed it is something like (structural design = 70+dth(2,30), I only checked my mod which changes it), 2 dice rolls of 30(that is what it was when I first changed it in 1.10-.11). The lowest roll is probably 72. There is no 11 sided dice, just 2 30 sided ones. You can't buy premium dice rolls, but you can install them.

You could change it to 4D15 or other numbers if you want more random variation but as it was it was 2 dice rolling between 1-30. Which is a variable you can mod to go over 130 if you wish by checking SE_Model. It'd be very easy to use the debug menu and find if it changed.

It'd be great if he changed it to default above 100. Below it makes no sense, these designers would be fired.

A minor detail, but can you confirm that whenever the game mentions dice rolls, you can never roll 0 on those dices ?

Well after 3 months of testing(3 times). It does indeed seem like it can only roll 1's and not 0's. I rolled 120+dth(1,1) and 120+dth(5,1) and it was either 121 or 125. The first is the dice the 2nd # is the numbers on the dice. You can find it to modify it in se model 183 flex model type stats. There is also a se data 167 flex model type stats(no idea why there is 2 but the se model one is all you need to modify for a mod, modifying most data is not possible ingame besides characters).

[zgrssd]

Since this thread was 1st Started, Vic added a Design Log note that some some Technology (like Aircraft Design for Aircraft) can actually modify the Structural Design Rolls upwards.

Any consistently high rolls might have been due to that.