TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.9 Download)

[Taxman66]

- (New) Logistics Tech changed from 10% OP to 5% per level

Not sure this is the best way to go about the Operational Costs issue.
This change means that you spend 100 MPP to save 1 MPP for each unit Operated/transported. So the question becomes how many units does a country operate/transport over the course of a game. Is it worth spending 100MPP so that a year after the investment you save 1 MPP per unit operated/transported?

My suggestion:
Leave the Tech alone (10% per level, at a cost of 100MPP per Tech Chit).
Increase the base cost of Operating/Transporting to 30 MPP per unit.
For each 100MPP investment you would save 3MPP per unit, so it becomes 'profitable' after 34 units, and upon reaching level 5 I believe this would then cost 15 MPP per unit (matching your change above).

[Lothos]

- (New) Logistics Tech changed from 10% OP to 5% per level

Not sure this is the best way to go about the Operational Costs issue.
This change means that you spend 100 MPP to save 1 MPP for each unit Operated/transported. So the question becomes how many units does a country operate/transport over the course of a game. Is it worth spending 100MPP so that a year after the investment you save 1 MPP per unit operated/transported?

My suggestion:
Leave the Tech alone (10% per level, at a cost of 100MPP per Tech Chit).
Increase the base cost of Operating/Transporting to 30 MPP per unit.
For each 100MPP investment you would save 3MPP per unit, so it becomes 'profitable' after 34 units, and upon reaching level 5 I believe this would then cost 15 MPP per unit (matching your change above).

You forgot the minimum supply bonus coming out of an HQ

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Lothos, you might want to look into the new ZoC settings and how the devs separated out land and sea units. I used a -7 penalty for ships in my WitP scenario-maybe bigger ships can be that, smaller ones (incl. subs) -4? Perhaps the former can require 2 ships, the latter just one? In OCB's most recent YT upload Duedman did some hit-and-run attacks with the Regia Marina; with a significant ZoC penalty he couldn't scuttle back to the safety of his Italian ports.

Ok will look into it

Definitely could be a sound idea Elessar suggested.
Him and I discussed this subject for quite some time, particularly when testing and playing his WitE mod for WaW.

Btw on the side I'm testing v 1.3
Like the looks with Malta. Seems it will be hard to take without a major effort now.

Observations and some Questions:

In the old match with v.0.9.7 against Unfortunate Son, he couldn't take the island. ( old vanilla WiE bad weather/ no air ops plus No Rail-gunning of Malta house-rules meant he had to give up after a lengthy air siege.
Ok no problem as that's was historical.

But one thing we noticed was the 'Malta effect on Axis supply in Libya was very strong. We weren't sure if because of double the turns the effect was firing essentially double the times...but it did seem too strong.
In vanilla, with less turns, the effect didn't seem as pronounced. Maybe the extra RNG rolls was the culprit.
We just were not sure.

The questions are.
1) Has the Malta affect been tested?. (Anyone can jump in)
2) If it does seem too strong...is there a way to moderate the affect?

I like the changes made to Malta and the other parts of the new version.
Was just wondering as I haven't got that far into a test yet but thought others may know the details of Malta staying Allied while the Axis is conducting a North Africa campaign.

[Taxman66]

FYI for your consideration Lothos:

Polish situation at start of the Allied October 15 turn vs.
Axis AI with 1 pip of bonus experience.
Allied spent ~70MPP on upgrading and repairing Polish units.
GE has taken 696 MPP in damage according to reports, so a bit less in actual repair costs worth of damage.

Warsaw will probably fall next turn with, at a guess, a near 50% chance of Poland surrendering.

Poland.jpg (493.79 KiB) Viewed 833 times

[Lothos]

FYI for your consideration Lothos:

Polish situation at start of the Allied October 15 turn vs.
Axis AI with 1 pip of bonus experience.
Allied spent ~70MPP on upgrading and repairing Polish units.
GE has taken 696 MPP in damage according to reports, so a bit less in actual repair costs worth of damage.

Warsaw will probably fall next turn with, at a guess, a near 50% chance of Poland surrendering.

Poland.jpg

The problem is if I make Poland easier then the Axis player say it is to easy and in MP they say its to easy. I am caught in a catch 22, their really is no way to make it balance for all game types.

My suggestion, as a house rule when playing SP, is not to reinforce Polish units if you are playing the Allies.

[Taxman66]

OK, just wanted to make you aware.

Couple of ideas to maybe consider:

1)
I think in one mod (the newer version of Fall Weiss?) I believe there is a damage script to units in (and maybe around) Warsaw, that only fires for Axis AI. Maybe something like that, that fires on turns 3-5 while Warsaw is allied controlled?

2)
Another idea to help with that surrender roll %:
Polish units east of a certain column of hexes (say the Bug - Lwow line) are removed from the board on turn 3 or 4 to simulate the Soviet invasion?

[Taxman66]

I am experimenting with an All France strategy,

1)
(Allied AI) France did not receive the bonus units in Algeria that they do in Vanilla once Mainland France capitulates.

2)
When Algeria falls, all of the French territories/minors continue to be aligned with the Allies.
This is contrary to vanilla, and a pretty huge change.
If this is intended then it should be made clear in the DE to form Vichy.
If I missed it in a set of older change/patch notes, I apologize ahead of time.

3)
I'm going to continue on and see if I can test if GE DE 603 (Entice Franco to join).

[Lothos]

I am experimenting with an All France strategy,

1)
(Allied AI) France did not receive the bonus units in Algeria that they do in Vanilla once Mainland France capitulates.

2)
When Algeria falls, all of the French territories/minors continue to be aligned with the Allies.
This is contrary to vanilla, and a pretty huge change.
If this is intended then it should be made clear in the DE to form Vichy.
If I missed it in a set of older change/patch notes, I apologize ahead of time.

3)
I'm going to continue on and see if I can test if GE DE 603 (Entice Franco to join).

1) Not sure what you mean, you are playing the Axis and trying to conquer all of France?

2) Umm, this is not Vanilla. Why would the colonies surrender? You chose to take over France. They will continue to fight. It is an a-historical game. Why would all of the French colonies surrender simply because you took Algeria.

3) You have to take Gibraltar

[Taxman66]

1) Not sure what you mean, you are playing the Axis and trying to conquer all of France?

2) Umm, this is not Vanilla. Why would the colonies surrender? You chose to take over France. They will continue to fight. It is an a-historical game. Why would all of the French colonies surrender simply because you took Algeria.

3) You have to take Gibraltar

Yes, I am/was mostly seeing if it works the same as vanilla.

I'm not arguing that it should work as vanilla, but if not, I strongly suggest some text edits in the DEs to clarify such.

1)
DE 602 text states that France will get reinforcements in Algeria if GE refuses to form Vichy.
The following Unit Scripts are in both Vanilla & TRP:
#NAME= DE 602[0] - French Army In Algiers After Fall Of France
#NAME= DE 602[0] - French HQ In Algiers After Fall Of France
#NAME= DE 602[0] - Tactical Bomber In Algiers
#NAME= DE 602[0] - Medium Bomber In Algiers

In my game/test these units did not form. If they have been deactivated for TRP then the text in the GE Vichy Decision (DE 602) should be amended removing their reference.

2)
Because this doesn't act as vanilla (and it is a huge difference), I suggest amending/adding a line to DE 602 stating that each French colony will have to be conquered individually.

3)
DE 602 text references the ability to 'entice' Franco to join the allies. One method of doing so is to take Gibraltar.

There is another method (DE 603) which can be found in the decision script (info from Strategy guide):
DE 603 - Germany: Entice Franco To Enter The War?
 Event fires: If France has surrendered, Italy has joined the Axis, Spain is neutral but
with at least a 60% leaning towards the Axis, Algiers and Casablanca are in Axis
hands, with a German unit within 3 hexes of Algiers, and there are no Allied troops
in France, or within 5 hexes of Oran or Casablanca.
 Cost of accepting: 800 MPPs at 200 MPPs a turn for 4 turns.

If this option is not available (deactivated) in TRP then, I suggest amending the text in DE 602 to make it clear that in order to entice Franco Gibraltar will have to be taken.

[Lothos]

1) Not sure what you mean, you are playing the Axis and trying to conquer all of France?

2) Umm, this is not Vanilla. Why would the colonies surrender? You chose to take over France. They will continue to fight. It is an a-historical game. Why would all of the French colonies surrender simply because you took Algeria.

3) You have to take Gibraltar

Yes, I am/was mostly seeing if it works the same as vanilla.

I'm not arguing that it should work as vanilla, but if not, I strongly suggest some text edits in the DEs to clarify such.

1)
DE 602 text states that France will get reinforcements in Algeria if GE refuses to form Vichy.
The following Unit Scripts are in both Vanilla & TRP:
#NAME= DE 602[0] - French Army In Algiers After Fall Of France
#NAME= DE 602[0] - French HQ In Algiers After Fall Of France
#NAME= DE 602[0] - Tactical Bomber In Algiers
#NAME= DE 602[0] - Medium Bomber In Algiers

In my game/test these units did not form. If they have been deactivated for TRP then the text in the GE Vichy Decision (DE 602) should be amended removing their reference.

2)
Because this doesn't act as vanilla (and it is a huge difference), I suggest amending/adding a line to DE 602 stating that each French colony will have to be conquered individually.

3)
DE 602 text references the ability to 'entice' Franco to join the allies. One method of doing so is to take Gibraltar.

There is another method (DE 603) which can be found in the decision script (info from Strategy guide):
DE 603 - Germany: Entice Franco To Enter The War?
 Event fires: If France has surrendered, Italy has joined the Axis, Spain is neutral but
with at least a 60% leaning towards the Axis, Algiers and Casablanca are in Axis
hands, with a German unit within 3 hexes of Algiers, and there are no Allied troops
in France, or within 5 hexes of Oran or Casablanca.
 Cost of accepting: 800 MPPs at 200 MPPs a turn for 4 turns.

If this option is not available (deactivated) in TRP then, I suggest amending the text in DE 602 to make it clear that in order to entice Franco Gibraltar will have to be taken.

1 - Good Catch, I need to redo that because Algeria is a minor so I do not believe you can dimply deploy French Units in their territory but I will test it out. Thank you.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Hi,
I've noticed these peculiar weather patterns in the Med since last year, particularly Sicily and Sardinia, when it rains. Only the coastal area's receive rain, not the interiors. Same with the small islands.
Is this intended?
I was going to mention this last year but had forgotten.
Screen capture from a vid recording, so apologies if it the image is a bit not as crisp.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Conducting an SP Test as Axis with v1.3 and did the Polish Campaign first. Custom settings with +10% MMPs.
Polish Campaign took 5 turns.

I must say I really like the changes with Poland as it mirrored historical in the length and damage done to the German Army and Airforce.
Warsaw fell on Turn 4 (Oct 5) and Poland surrendered on Turn 5 (Oct 15). Historically Poland surrendered on Oct 6, 1939 so this test for the timeline is good.

One thing to note: The UK AI spent their MMPs on reinforcing the Poles. (Poland is a minor of the UK in this mod) and it maybe well worth doing this in a MP match.
According to the record, Germany lost over 1200 MMPs during this timeline of which most occurred in Poland.
Historically the German Army and Airforce had to rebuild their forces after the damage to themselves in the Polish Campaign, and these figures seem to somewhat mirror that.

Anyways, thanks to Jazon for suggesting some changes and Lothos for making them. It seems more realistic. The Germans have been spending on research of course, but now its time to rebuild for the west.

[Lothos]

Hi,
I've noticed these peculiar weather patterns in the Med since last year, particularly Sicily and Sardinia, when it rains. Only the coastal area's receive rain, not the interiors. Same with the small islands.
Is this intended?
I was going to mention this last year but had forgotten.
Screen capture from a vid recording, so apologies if it the image is a bit not as crisp.

Discussed before in this thread, it is a bug in the code were any hex that is defined as a sea but has land in it uses the weather patern for land instead of sea. The base game had these areas always clear weather no matter what. I added a weather chances to it but you will get what you see somestimes Which is actually possible, small weather paterns alond the coast due to the water etc...

Either case it is not really fixable

[Taxman66]

November 1940 turn, USSR is still neutral, but I just noticed that their National Morale is 99%.

[Lothos]

November 1940 turn, USSR is still neutral, but I just noticed that their National Morale is 99%.

Ok, did they prepare for war? I believe the EXE is setup for any major that is over 90% gets fastracked to 100 and then they DOW.

[Taxman66]

National Morale, not mobilization.

Mobilization is sitting at 35% mobilization.

Looking closesly it seems as if something ding'd their National morale for a total of 15 points.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

National Morale, not mobilization.

Mobilization is sitting at 35% mobilization.

Looking closesly it seems as if something ding'd their National morale for a total of 15 points.

Getting involved with the Winter War or not?
Never saw a change in Soviet NM before with either decision of yes or no but maybe there's a chance it's effected modestly depending.

[Taxman66]

It was early 1940, so not sure what.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

It was early 1940, so not sure what.

Right. Winter War begins on Turn 8 (Nov 20, 1939) and ends on Turn 16 (March 10, 1940) according to my logs.
Well it's interesting what you reported about neutral USSR dropping 1% on their NM.

[Taxman66]

It was only 15 NM points, so it displays as a 1% loss (since fractionals aren't displayed) but in reality is far smaller. It just happens to go over the threshold.