1.08 Build 1676 Enemy Mission Start Times Ignored

[Tred]

Hi All.

Before I do a bug report I thought I'd better ask first: Is there something about the new mission features I don't know about that would cause CPU Side Mission Start times to be ignored?

I have a large scenario I've been trying to finish playing for ever a year now. With every update, the computer AI (North Korea) has always stuck to mission time triggers. But with the newest update less than two minutes in, they are firing everything disregarding the mission start time triggers (Scud's, other Missiles, looks like even my 'ground incursion' mission). This has never happened with any previous update.

I'll try to reset the missions with the new update and see if that does it, but wanted to ask to see if I'm missing something with the new update, or it might be a bug, or what.

Thanks.

[blu3s]

Yes, this is a bug and it's fixed for the next CMO update

[Tred]

Hi Blue. Did you mean that this was supposed to be fixed for 1706? Or the next official update? I recently upgraded to the 1706 beta but it's still happening to me on there.

Thanks.

[blu3s]

Hi Blue. Did you mean that this was supposed to be fixed for 1706? Or the next official update? I recently upgraded to the 1706 beta but it's still happening to me on there.

Thanks.

Yes, this is working on 1706, but please update the scenario where it's not working so we can take a look

Thank you

[Tred]

Okay, I don't know what's going on here. Below is a very large scenario I created a long time ago with a little bit of everything in it and designed to play in my micro-managed style.

In the scenario you'll notice that North Korean missile strikes, ground incursion, artillery barrage etc. are not supposed to trigger until well over an hour into the game, which begins at 0600 zulu. It always worked fine until Build 1676 when the reported bug occurred. I upgraded to 1706 recently, and those missions still fire just a few minutes into the game now like they first started to in 1676.

But it gets stranger: I had assigned individual units within groups (for example all the missile complexes) to specific missions, and if you click on them individually you see they are listed as assigned to those missions. But things get all confused if you look at the mission box and the list of units assigned there. They no longer correspond.

I tried rebuilding the missions. I tried replacing all the specific units and reassigning them individually again like I always used to do (ie right-clicking on the unit and assigning missions that way rather than in the mission editor box) but it no longer works that way. Even in 1706.

And this issue looks specific to this scenario. I tried a little test scenario after you said this was fixed in 1706, and that worked just fine. So I'm baffled as to what the problem is here.

Thanks.

Preempting North Korea.zip

(5.49 MiB) Downloaded 14 times

[Nikel]

Monster scenario, note that there are missions with hundreds of targets and it is not recommended by the devs, the engine will struggle.

I see that the missions are not active, they are firing for other reason, Engaged Offensive (Standoff).

EOS.png (91.66 KiB) Viewed 1094 times

[Tred]

It is a monster of a scenario. One day I hope to actually be able to play it through. Lol. It runs slow, but never had this issue before.

I wondered if opportunity targeting was making the missions fire prior to mission start time. Doesn't seem to be it. That would be a different bug. But there are several strange things happening in it. For instance the long range missiles targeting US bases in Japan, allocated to four different targets manually, are all firing at Iwakuni instead...without waiting for the mission start time to begin.

[Tred]

Has anyone else had a chance to look at this monster scenario of mine and have any ideas what is going wrong in the latest update?

Thanks.

[Tred]

Anyone? Anyone? Lol.

[Nikel]

North Korea conseders USA as hostile in the sides postures from the beginning.

While the USA allies are unfriendly.

Could it be that?

[Tred]

I'll try changing it when I get time Nikel. Thanks.

But that was never an issue before, so if it is, I'd wonder what changed in 1676 and 1706. Never had this problem until now. :/

[Dimitris]

So, is this a simulation issue or scenario design flaw ?

[Nikel]

So, is this a simulation issue or scenario design flaw ?

Tred did not come back to comment.


What I see is that from B1674 till the current beta, there are NK land units that engage hostile USA land units aroud Zulu 6:02 (2' after the start of the scenario), when they are assigned to a mission that should activate 1h later.

There are naval attacks before, but the units involved are assigned to a mission that has no activation time, so I suppose this is not a problem.


In B1662 there is no land attack at Zulu 6:02, but did not test much longer because it is a monster scenario and time advances very slowly.


There is one important difference between 1674 and the current though, many more NK units engage in 1674 than in 1728. In 1728 the Scud, KN-09, KN-25 and some more do not start attacking at Zulu 6:02, only HARTS and Grad rockets, so perhaps the problem was partially fixed, for guided weapons but not for guns and rockets?


Screenshots comparing both builds from the NK point of view.

1674.png (247.51 KiB) Viewed 313 times

1728.png (91.22 KiB) Viewed 313 times

[Tred]

Tred did not come back to comment.

Sorry. I've been busy. Thanks for looking into this.

So, is this a simulation issue or scenario design flaw ?

This is a (massive) scenario I built almost two years ago. But I never had any problem with enemy units not obeying their mission start times until 1676 with that bug. But even after the next fix, which does work on all other scenarios I've played, it still doesn't work on this massive scenario of mine and I cannot figure out why. I tried reassigning several units. I deleted units and rebuilt them and reassigned start times. I tried deleting and rebuilding the mission start times. Nothing seems to work. So, I'm at a loss why this particular problem only recently began and persists on this one scenario.

Thanks.

[Dimitris]

If easy, can you check if this issue persists on the current public beta? (Build 1728.2)

[Tred]

If easy, can you check if this issue persists on the current public beta? (Build 1728.2)

Hi Dimitris. I finally got time to update to the new beta through Steam and try it (1728.2) and it's still not fixed.

However, like Nikel said, it appears that the missiles (Scuds, Nodongs etc.) located further back from the DMZ are no longer firing in the first few minutes with the two latest updates, but the artillery and MLRS rockets along the DMZ are firing around the 2 min mark still.

The point of the scenario is to give the US time (a few hours) to try and destroy N. Korean missiles and border artillery before they get the order to respond. So having them suddenly open fire at the two minute mark, ignoring their mission start times, just ruins the scenario.

So it appears the last two beta updates have stopped the long range missiles from firing a few minutes in (hopefully obeying their mission start times) but that it not the case with the border artillery and MLRS units (which also have a late mission start time).

Thanks.

[Dimitris]

I heard that this is a scenario-specific issue. Is that your impression too ?

[Tred]

I heard that this is a scenario-specific issue. Is that your impression too ?

I think so. After the last patch, the bug that introduced ignored mission start times (1676) was fixed when I ran a test and played a different scenario. It only has persisted, as far as I know, in this one huge scenario of mine I shared to the forum.

Do you think it corrupted just that scenario somehow? It's sooo big and I've wanted to finish it for so long, I'd hate to have to spend all the time rebuilding the whole thing from scratch. But do you think that's what went wrong here and is the only answer?

Thanks.

[Nikel]

I think it is not.

Here is a small scenario that should demonstrate it?

Compared 3 builds in a scenario with 2 attacking units, Scud (guided weapon) and mortar (gun) vs a target. They are assigned to a land strike mission that should activate 30' after the scenario starts. Used db v512 so the scenario can be tested in old builds.


1662, there is no attack until the mission is activated. No bug.

1674, both units firing just after the scenario starts. Bug in both type of units (gun and guided weapon).

1728, only the mortar attacks after the scenario starts, the Scud when the mission is activated. Bug partially fixed (for guided weapon but not for gun).

These videos display the scenario start. Switch side to Iran.

1662.gif (127.08 KiB) Viewed 66 times

1674.gif (285.88 KiB) Viewed 66 times

1728.gif (160.55 KiB) Viewed 66 times

[Tred]

I think it is not.

Here is a small scenario that should demonstrate it?

Thanks Nikel. So it seems it's still a bug and I don't have to rebuild this monster scenario.