Bo...oops in the South Pacific - LST (A) vs SierraJuliet (J) Bottlenecks Mod

[LargeSlowTarget]

Hi folks,

I am please to announce that SierraJuliet (Steve) and I are preparing to start a PBEM game using my Bottlenecks mod (scenario 59 with standard engine production and full R&D) with PDU on.

This will be a slow-motion game without "a turn a day" pressure and we will try to keep it "realistic" without cheesy "anything goes in order to win" tactics.

We have agreed on a just a few house rules:

Limitation on the use of Army 4-engine bombers in a low-naval role. Skip-bombing has been pioneered by B-17s but medium bombers turned out to be more suitable. Therefore just one US 4E squadron allowed in low naval role. No such limit on Navy 4E bombers - they got low historically and the Navy gets few 4Es anyway.

Night-bombing has long been considered too effective in the game as well, and night-fighters as a joke. We will apply a numbers limit per target with the formula "number of squadrons = year minus 40" i.e. one squadron in 41, two in 42, three in 43 etc. for port and airbase strikes. No limit on night city bombing.

Tank blitzkrieg is another issue, with huge tanks-only stacks crashing through China in many games. Unrealistic, tank warfare usually followed a "combined arms" approach with infantry - motorised or riding on the tanks. A single tank unit is allowed as a "manoeuvre element" (spearhead, pursuit, pincer etc.). But when two or more tank units are involved, they must be accompanied by infantry units of equivalent size.

I also follow a few personal rules to avoid unrealistic things and game engine exploits, like no full speed runs off-map, no fuel transportation in AK types (except small quantities in small craft in order to supply forward PT or barge bases, since these small craft used petrol or diesel fuel which could be shipped in drums), picket ships must be Navy not Merchant Marine, no "sacrifice tactics" Allied commanders would not use.

Looking forward to a nice game between gentlemen and the first turn from Steve.

I am sure I will have a lot of "oops" moments, and not only in the South Pacific!

Cheers,
LST

[PaxMondo]

subscribed.

in for the long haul, GOOD LUCK!!.

[zebrazwo]

+1 follower

This should be interesting to watch/follow.

[MBF]

Excellent - looking forward to this

[LargeSlowTarget]

Oh my, three "followers" already and I haven't even done anything yet. Thanks folks, I hope to prove myself worthy. Game should start next week, SJ is still working on the perfect opening move, "Gaishu Isshoku" style no doubt.

[RangerJoe]

Oh my, three "followers" already and I haven't even done anything yet. Thanks folks, I hope to prove myself worthy. Game should start next week, SJ is still working on the perfect opening move, "Gaishu Isshoku" style no doubt.

Actually, four followers!

[CaptBeefheart]

Five.

Cheers,
CB

[ReadyR]

I'm in. I have played this mod once, before the big update a while ago. Loved it then.

[Skyros]

Number 7.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Well, still waiting for the first turn from SJ.

I'm starting to feel anxious about the things to come he's apparently preparing so elaborately and meticulously.
I have not checked the forum for AARs of past games by SJ in order to analyse his playing style.
On the one hand, I should know my enemy.
On the other hand, I think it will be more fun to to discover "on the go" what kind of player he is - like, "surprise me".

His signature about "KB = raiding force" might be an indication - hope KB will go away quickly instead of hovering around PH for days!
But then, it may reappear deeply behind my "lines" - which will be more like a sieve for a long time.

I tend to suffer from "loss aversion" and treat my electronic troops like my children - means no "high risk, high reward" operations.
But sometimes I tell me "Ah f*** it, after all, it is just a game".
It depends on my mood, so my playing style is more like a series of improvisations rather than the implementation of a well-thought-out plan - usually with less-than-optimal results.
Luckily I play the Allies this time, they have a bit more leeway and can more easily recover from disasters (which I am expecting to strike).

First priority will be holding PH and the US - Australia "life line" - but not "to the death".
If SJ want to go deep into the SoPac, it will put a strain on his fuel situation and keeps precious carrying capacity from hauling resources to the Home Islands.
And when he's engaged deep south, this opens opportunities for the Allies at other places.

My biggest fear is China, because I am particularly bad in large-scale land warfare.
I hope it will stay a quiet front, with the garrison requirements for Japan it will be difficult to conquer the entire country.
I still have a doubt about the game mechanics concerning overland movement of resources and oil.
The fact that the Yangtze is a 'navigable river' should trigger rule 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS - with transfer rates of 500 supplies/resources and 100 fuel/oil per smallest port.
However, I do not know whether resources and oil will also travel along the "trails" crossing the Yangtze, and if yes, in what quantities.
If only the "between ports" transfer is active, it should "strangle" the flow of resources and oil - and thus render the "JFB holy grail" - the "magic highway" to Fusan - less attractive, and lessen my fears about China land warfare.

Concerning the inevitable Allied counter-offensive - "it depends".
Obviously I will need B-29 bases in range of Japan which can be sufficiently supplied (means by sea).
If (big if) I can manage to keep the IJN carrier population well under control, a "shortcut" via the Bonin Islands to Okinawa and Formosa would yield B-29 bases somewhat closer to Japan than the Marianas, and cut-off the SRA at the same time.
The supply lines by sea could be kept out of Japanese fighter range for most of the journey, and long-range bombers could be kept under control by CAP from escort carriers embedded in the supply convoys.
That would avoid costly land battles on the SoPac, the Marianas and the PI.
Just an idea.

[RangerJoe]

I am not sure what map that you are using but I had asked questions about it. With the broken rail lines on the updated map where the bridges are gone, the resources flow fine it is the movement of units that is curtailed.

I do believe that George Patton Jr said that a good plan now is better than the perfect plan a week from now. His grandson George Patton IV said "Find the bastards and pile on!" So keep that in mind.

If you opponent goes south and defends that heavily, emulate a certain Italian lawyer who invaded Hokkaido in 1944 with a surprise invasion.

I am like you on loss aversion.

For China, find good defensive terrain and establish positions in depth, one unit behind the other with smaller units keeping your units from being flanked. Consider bringing in some Commonwealth armoured units, artillery units, antitank units, and the base forces in Burma. The base forces in Burma can help to defend those bases in the mountains.

As far as surprise raids go, paratroopers don't need prep and can be dropped from PBYs avoiding things like CD guns which means that after one week of bombing and bombardments, the defenders just might not defend fairly well.

I would consider converting all of your Clemson class DDs that you can to APDs. If they survive the PI and DEI areas fighting as destroyers, they should have better training. Their ASW goes up to 6, they can drop some supplies immediately during the invasions while they act as escorts, plus performing the Fast Transport missions. The Wickes class destroyers need their February 1942 upgrades before they can become APDs but if they have their June 1942 upgrades, then they can't become APDs. You will have better escorts coming later and better destroyers as well but early they make good escorts for convoys and then they are good for the inevitable invasions.

Look at you upgrade paths for the various Commonwealth infantry. The Burmese squads eventually upgrade to Indian squads, others do as well. There are ways to get the Australian infantry devices updated to the better infantry devices fairly quickly but it takes some effort. The New Zealand infantry can do the same but not as quickly nor as completely.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Thanks for the hints, RJ.

But my mod sometimes deviates from the "norm": All four-stackers can be converted to APDs right from the start. I tend to keep the longer-ranged Clemsons as "ocean escorts", and convert the shorter-ranged Wickes to APDs.

I am surprised about the normal resource flows through navigable river hexsides, this in contrary to the manual. Maybe because most scenarios have no "adjacent ports" on those rivers, while my mod has? Need to test this.

Upgrading the Aussie infantry faster - IIRC the trick was to divide the Aussie divisions and to upgrade updating one brigade after another - instead of waiting for a device pool sufficient to upgrade the entire division. Right?
I keep that in mind for the AIF which can form divisions in my mod. The Militia "divisions" are build around individual brigades and a separate divisional HQ, they cannot form into divisions. Aussie brigades have been switched between different divisions quite often, and my orbat reflects this.

Do you have any insights / best practice on how to deal with Franks and Georges? With full R&D in scen 59, I expect to encounter them way earlier than historic. And it is a "PDU on" game, so potentially I may face a lot of them way earlier. The Allies cannot increase quantity nor speed-up the arrival of better planes, which puts them in a bad position. I really hope that the increased factory repair costs for the more modern Japanese engine types will put a brake on the production numbers.

Edit: Btw, SJ has told me that he should be able to finish the first turn this weekend. One heck of a preparation. I usually finish the first turn of Japan in less than six hours.

[RangerJoe]

That is good news about the Wickes, sometimes I would forget the February upgrades and then the June upgrade comes around . . .

Actually, if any of those Aussie brigades are in the form of battalions, you can upgrade those squads to Australian 1942 Infantry squads, then disband all but one for the brigade and then reform the brigade. That should give enough squads to eventually upgrade all of the Aussies. The same is way for the Mounted Rifles is to upgrade as well before they disband to send the devices into the pools. That also works for New Zealand as well.

I don't know if you did anything to the Commonwealth squads but I thought that I would mention it. A lot of people who play the Japanese side may not be aware of it. I mention it so they don't throw those units away needlessly since they are useful for garrisons and then can be good rear area reserves when they are upgraded. The "static" frontier squads normally upgrade to a "mobile" frontier squad so those units can end up being moved around as needed.

I have never looked at your mod. I did try reduced cargo once or twice but I went back to the normal cargo loads. If anything, I prefer the damaged industry in CONUS but the problem there is if there is too much damage at any one site, it just isn't worth repairing. When a lot of that was simply switching to the military style of production such as possibly longer canning times with higher temperatures, then no real change to the factory was needed. The only change would be having the label painted on the container instead of paper labels.

I have never gotten that far in the game for those late war fighters. I would just train your pilots and make as many traps as you can over your own territory. No need to sweep a target just to lose your pilots while his may be recovered.

I actually haven't played WITP:AE for awhile, I have been testing the engine for WIS. The land combat is so much better . . .

What I would like to see for the UK would be having Light Industry there so if there are available resources to be shipped to the UK, it can come back as more supplies. That was the reason for the empire except instead of military supplies, the return shipments would be civilian supplies.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Hi folks,

Well, I have just sent back the first turn to SJ, with a certain feeling of pending doom.

This first turn will be a calm one, since it is a Dec 7th PM scenario, with limits imposed on air attacks because they have already been included in the setup.
Arizona and Oklahoma start the turn with 99 damage in all three categories, and the usually sink and yield VPs for Japan.
This avoids the often very variable results of the PH attack - from no BB sunk to eight BBs sunk all is possible, which may create frustration on the one side or the other.

Big question is - will SJ keep KB around PH for follow-on strikes or will he avoid the risk of losing A-Team pilots to PH flak? Just in case he elects to stay around, I have taken measures to extract a price if possible.

The other question is - will SJ risk a Mersing gambit or not? Again, I have taken certain measures against this possibility.

My priority will be the evacuation of the civilians - means Europeans and Americans - from the future SRA.

I will follow Sir Robin in most areas but may also try to establish fortresses at key locations and to throw a spanner in the works if occasion arises without too much risks.

We all know the results to be expected: Oopps....

[zebrazwo]

How bad was your a/c hit at Pearl? Do you have enough assets to counter an extended visit?

[LargeSlowTarget]

There are no first turn air strikes in this mod, the historic damage caused and suffered is part of the setup.

Pearl has 43 ready fighters and 28 ready bombers left, plus 76 damaged fighters and 28 damaged bombers.

Airbase damage 50% runway and 80% service.

Pilot skills and exp are no match for KB's veterans.

But I have a surprise waiting, should KB hang around - the air groups of Lexington and Enterprise have been sent to Pearl, while the empty carriers are running for safety.

[LargeSlowTarget]

December 7, 1942

Ok, here we go - but with a slow start. Since my mod begins in the afternoon of Dec 7th, with the historic airstrikes and damage done, only CAP, naval search and recon missions are allowed this turn.

Action has opened with a few sub attacks, I-169 missing DD Litchfield neat PH, I-3 missing xAK Hoegh Merchant near Lahaina, I-1 hitting xAP Haleakala with one fish near Lahaina (85 float dmg, the ship has reached Hilo port). Near Laoag, SS Pickerel~ launched 4 torpedoes at DD Asagumo - part of a pack of five enemy DDs heading south - and missed.

At Shanghai, gutsy little RN gunboat Peterel faced overwhelming odds, a Japanese task force of one old armoured cruiser and a quartet of destroyers or gunboats. Gallant Peterel even managed to "cross the T", but three hits from CA Izumo's large guns reduced her to a sinking wreck.

One of the centres of attention is of course PH. Battleships Arizona and Oklahoma have officially been declared sunk and lost. Now, will KB stick around or head home? PT boats have been sent in groups of three on various courses in northerly direction up to the limit of their round-trip endurance - six hexes. Several submarines are moving to the northern sector between 6 and 8 hexes from PH as well. The few operational planes left at PH have taken to the skies, looking for the Japanese carriers. They are nowhere to be found, they can be on their way back to Japan, or appearing off Diamond Head next turn, who knows. Every other ship capable of steaming has been ordered out of Pearl to head south or southeast, away from the danger. This is obviously a risk, because if the Japanese expect this and their carriers rush past PH to the SE, they will have a field day next turn. However, if they rush south close enough to PH, the carrier air groups now land-based at PH may have an opportunity.

The other hot spot is Malaya, where Japanese forces have landed at various points on the NE coast. Singora, Patani and Kota Bharu have been invaded. At Kota, British bombers managed to damage two enemy transports, leaving one burning fiercely. Question here is - will there be an attempt to out-flank and cut-off British troops in the North with landings at Kuantan or at Mersing? Ground forces have been ordered to fall back towards Singers, the Navy's Force Z at Singers is kept ready to react, a minelayer has been ordered to lay his eggs at Mersing, and all available torpedo bombers have gathered at Kuala Lumpur, from which they can cover both Mersing and Kuantan.

In the PI, pre-war plans to declare Manila an open city and to defend only the Bataan peninsula have been activated. Troops are ordered to concentrate at Clark Field, while small ships and barges have been commandeered in order to move supplies from Manila to Bataan. All larger ships in harbour have been ordered to try to escape to the south and east if possible. What is left of the air forces, has been ordered to try to escape as well.

In informal staff meetings just before the war of members of the America, British, Dutch and Australian forces in the area, it has been agreed to concentrate available forces in a few "bastions" and to leave most of the wide, indefensible area to its fate. This plan has now been activated. Maximum efforts will be made to evacuate the European and American civilians from the threatened areas, by ship and by air.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Dec 8th, 1941

Bases lost
Makin (Gilberts), Batan Is. (PI), Vigan (PI), Aparri (PI)

Sub War
SS I-157 has sunk xAKL Larut near Kuantan.
SS I-10^ has hit TK Gulfdawn near Moala (Fijis) with a dud.
SS I-154 has sunk xAKL Dai Tung near Mersing with gunfire.
SS Sailfish~ missed DD Asagumo near Laoag.
SS KXII launched 2 torpedoes at DD Hibiki near Kota Bharu and missed.
SS KXI launched 2 torpedoes at DD Asagiri near Singora and missed.

CONUS
With a state of war now existing, all unarmed ships have been sent to the yards to receive some light AA and larger ships a medium-calibre deck gun as well. This token armament is more of psychological value, I guess.

Stateside air groups have stepped up the training schedules and received a healthy influx of fresh and green pilot candidates. However, airframes for training are lacking.

Ground units are moving to defend key installations, units scheduled for duty overseas are proceeding to their ports of embarkation to await availability of shipping.

Due to the war in Europe and the “Lend-Lease” and “Arsenal of Democracy” preparations, the American industrial might is already gearing-up for war – but production facilities are competing for tools, machinery and construction materials of all sorts. Supplies will be scarce while production is struggling to ramp-up.


NoPac
Given the paucity of assets in the area, little can be done here for the moment. The ground units at Dutch Harbor, Kodiak and mainland Alaska have been ordered to dig, pray and hope that the Japanese won’t show any interest in owning frozen rocks in the middle of stormy seas. Shipping assets have been ordered to the nearest CONUS ports for upgrades and reallocation.


CentPac
Enemy carriers have been sighted by naval search halfway between Midway and Pearl Harbor, heading west. It appears that the enemy raiding force is returning home. We will keep our shipping to the SE of PH for a day longer to see if this is not just a trick.

Makin Island has been assaulted and captured by the 51st Naval Guard Unit.
The weather station operated by a handful of New Zealanders is thus out of business.
At the demand of the New Zealand government, USS Pensacola - which happened to be the Allied war ship closest to Makin – had made a full-speed run to Makin in order to evacuate the Kiwis, but she came too late.
However, she managed to extract some revenge and engaged the Japanese invasion convoy, hitting several ships before breaking off the action due to lack of ammo.
That will teach the enemy that despite the beating the USN has taken at Pearl Harbor, it is still full of fight!

Day Time Surface Combat, near Makin at 136,125, Range 22,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
CM Tokiwa, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Okinoshima^, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Asanagi
DD Yunagi, Shell hits 1
PB Nagata Maru, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Tenyo Maru, Shell hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage
Allied Ships
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 1


SoPac
The convoy USS Pensacola has been escorting received orders to change course to the SW and to make for Sydney instead of Manila. The empty return convoy USS Louisville is escorting in the Solomon area has been ordered to try to evacuate the New Zealanders on Nauru and Ocean Island.
PBYs have been sent to Palmyra with orders to evacuate the civilians participating in the “American Equatorial Islands Colonisation Project” on Howland, Baker, Jarvis and Enderbury islands.


PI
The enemy has landed by sea on small islands to the north of Luzon – they are useless; the purpose of these operations is unclear.
Batan Island has been assaulted and captured by the Sasebo 1st' Nav Gd.
Itbayat Island has been assaulted as well.
Enemy landings on Luzon proper started with paradrops on undefended Vigan and Aparri.

Several enemy task forces have been sighted off the north coast of Luzon.
xAPc Cetus has been sunk by Japanese DDs near Laoag.
Yesterday, all ships above 500 tons were ordered to leave the PI and to make for Java or PH. A “staging point” has been designated at Tarakan for refuelling, protected by the Asiatic Fleet. The Dutch have promised to send reinforcements. Among the last ships to leave today is PG Isabel – workers at Cavite naval yard have hastily installed some depth charge throwers to her deck in order to render that ex-yacht useful in an escort role.

The B-17s operating from Cagayan and a few survivors from the debacle at Clark Field have attacked the nearest Japanese stronghold, the port and anchorage at Koror / Babeldaob. Two ships have been hit, a repair ship and a transport disguised as a hospital ship, and the port installations suffered minor damage.


Australia
Australian ground forces are in the process of being reshuffled throughout the continent in order to provide at least an early warning in case of enemy invasion. Current strength will not permit to resist a determined Japanese invasion. The total lack of fighter planes leaves the country wide open to any plans the Japanese may have. The Aussies are looking for US help – but the Americans do not have much to spare – some artillery and a few planes on the Pensacola convoy will be rerouted to Sydney, and that’s all that is available for the moment.
The numerous merchant shipping in Australian waters has been dispatched to Java in order to help with the evacuation of Dutch civilians and resources / oil.
Flying boats, small ships and boats are engaged in the evacuation of civilians from the Solomons and PNG areas.


DEI
The Dutch have received the news of the attacks on PH and Malaya and they have no doubt that there are on the shopping list of the Japanese Empire as well. Only the main island of Java has a garrison worth mentioning, all other locations are defended by token forces or not at all. The Dutch government in exile – Germany has overrun the Netherlands in 1940 – cannot provide any help for the colonies. Local authorities are most concerned about the numerous Dutch civilians spread across the vast colonial empire – administrators, engineers, planters, merchants etc. and their families. Orders have been given to use all assets available to evacuate a maximum of civilians to Java and from there to India or Australia.

The Dutch have promised their British and American neighbours any assistance they can provide, on the principle that it may help to keep the Japanese as far away from Java and Sumatra as possible. Dutch submarines are already positioned off Malaya, Dutch fighter planes are preparing to move to Singers, and the Dutch Navy has been ordered to reinforce the Asiatic Fleet and to escort merchant ships from Singapore and Palembang - in an attempt to deny the Japanese a maximum of resources, oil, and fuel.


Malaya / Burma / India
Unclear responsibilities and indecision at higher headquarters have prevented the execution of British plans for the defence of Malaya. Operation Matador, the planned pre-emptive seizure of potential Japanese landing points on the east coast of Thailand, has not even been ordered. It would have failed anyway, as proven by the unsuccessful defence of Kota Bharu, which Japan had seized yesterday without difficulties. Plan B has been triggered – the creation of a “Fortress Singapore”. High-ranking officials from the American, Dutch and Australian Armed Forces have been invited to a conference on short notice to discuss a common strategy and command setup.

Minelayer HMS Kung Wo has mined Mersing, but on the way back she triggered an enemy mine just east of Singers. The ship managed to reach port and immediately went into dry-dock for repairs.

Several waves of British torpedo bombers have attacked a trio of Japanese DDs off Kuantan. Lacking sufficient torpedoes, the first wave attacked with bombs and obtained two hits on DD Michishio, leaving her on fire. The other three waves attacked with torpedoes but missed.


China
Near at Shenzhen, brave British gunboats have tried to bombard Japanese forces approaching Hong Kong from Canton. Alas, HMS Robin and HMS Tern have run smack into a Japanese TF (CL, 3 DD) and got sunk.

The civilian planes of the China National Aviation Corporation and the Eurasia Aviation Company based at Hong Kong have been ordered to re-base to Kunming. After some training, it is planned to base them at Ledo to ferry cargo from India to China, in case the Japanese manage to close the Burma Road.

On mainland China, many Chinese Army units have received marching orders to consolidate and concentrate forces in positions and terrains better suited for defence. Enemy intentions are unknown at the moment, but it cannot hurt to be prepared. Attempts by the Japanese to clear the railroads in order to improve LOCs are to expected. Other potential targets are the oil-producing cities of Sian and Lanchow, the industrial centres around Changsha and the Wuchow-Liuchow corridor, and ultimately, the capital at Chungking. Time will tell. The lack of supplies and the sorry state of most of the Chinese Army units leave little space for optimism.

Enemy troop movements are observed at Ichang, Japanese troops seem to leave the city. If this is true, units of the 6th War Area may move back into the city. [This would not surprise me - the city is of little value to Japan, but requires three divisions to hold the city itself and the road leading to it. I usually evacuate it as well when playing Japan.]

----------------------------
Note: My opponent will be out of town for a week, so there will be a short pause.

[IdahoNYer]

Good to see another LST AAR!!!!

Looking forward to this match Uwe!

[zebrazwo]

Interesting action by Pensacola, probably wouldn't normally happen, but because your scenario has civilians in the mix that need to be rescued/evacuated, you ran into an easy battle where your forces came out on top.

Just call it great planning, as in you knew it would work