CV refuling

[Mr.Frag]

That was a great tactic to rearm your subs.

Yep, now you need a AS in the port AND supplies AND fuel. There are just so many things you'll need to unlearn [:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Spoilage effects are only on bases smaller then size 10 (airfield+port).

This is to get rid of the UV crap of dumping on dots to turn around bombardment groups and subs and such nonsense [;)]

Hey, don't know it. That was a great tactic to rearm your subs. I did it all the time and never felt bad about it because it helped (in part) make up for the fact that my subs ALWAYS had to fire a full salvo at every single target. It was stupid to go halfway across the pacific and only get three shots.

I thought about changing the way sub tubes were set up in the dbase so that 4 torps would be the max fired but did not as this was not my place.[:-]

[Mr.Frag]

I thought about changing the way sub tubes were set up in the dbase so that 4 torps would be the max fired but did not as this was not my place.

I always chuckled about that one. People complain about the number of torpedoes fired but the very first thing they do is turn OFF Japanese Sub Doctrine which limits the numbers fired based on the target. [;)]

[kaleun]

This of course brings up a question: Exactly how will japanese sub doctrine be modeled?
If I place a japanese sub in a sea lane, and an AP or AK comes by, with doctrine on, will it attack it? What if it is escorted by say a DD, will it attack the AP or the DD?
(scratching head vigorously)

[Mr.Frag]

Well documented in the manual as to exactly what the effects are.

[kaleun]

Would that be the stealth mistery manual that we are all clamoring for?
(Less loudly than for the game, of course)[;)]

[Nikademus]

If toggled "on" IJN subs will be far less likely to attack merchant ships vs warship targets. If off they attack all targets of opportunity. Most players toggle it off because Japanese sub doctrine was set by how the Japanese historically deployed their subs. Japanese sub commanders were perfectly willing to attack a merchant if it crossed their paths.

[kaleun]

thx

[siRkid]

Spoilage

Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *1000 ) suffers spoilage.

Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.

Any base with combined port and airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage

[byron13]

These formulae determines how much fuel and supply is subject to spoilage, but what is the formula for determining how much of the affected fuel and supply is lost in a turn? Or is it 100%?

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: Kid
Any base with combined port and airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage

With that sentence above I feel like I can now relax and not worry about the spoilage thing anymore. Thank you.

[Onime No Kyo]

Its not that you have much choice, Damien. Were you planning on not using a base until you got it up to 10+?

Pardon my annoying tennacity, but I still dont beleive my question has been answered. Let me try and rephrase it. If KB were to leave Japan, at a rate of speed set by AI (which I assume to be a calculated nominal for fuel consumption), with its destination set to something ridiculously distant, like Australia, how far will it actually get before the fuel runs out? Thanks.

[Subchaser]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

A question has occured to me just now. REading the AARs from Raver and Luskan makes me wonder how Luskan manages to move his CV forces in such a dashing manner. Is there a huge AO TF tagging along, or is it simply a matter of moving slowly enough to conserve fuel. In UV, this has always been a problem for me. CV TFs seem to have very short legs. Keeping them "on station" becomes nearly impossible after a week or so.

It also helps that huge fleets like KB can zip into a size 1 "port" (fishing wharf with a drum and pump system) which somehow has huge fuel reserves to refuel/rearm in a turn and zoom out. One of the few remaining logistical anomalies which exist are the naval base issues (capacity/operations limits/logistic restrictions), apparently to assist the AI. I'd like to see this changed somehow...

Ron, if they won’t change this, we still can get rid of these port/refueling anomalies with a help of house rules set, it require more micro management but I prefer to waste more time rather than to see 6 large carriers refuel in just one day in Tulagi harbor being absolutely invulnerable. Paradoxical WitP feature that can spoil the whole fun [:@]

[Mr.Frag]

Pardon my annoying tennacity, but I still dont beleive my question has been answered. Let me try and rephrase it. If KB were to leave Japan, at a rate of speed set by AI (which I assume to be a calculated nominal for fuel consumption), with its destination set to something ridiculously distant, like Australia, how far will it actually get before the fuel runs out? Thanks.

At regular speed, it will make it. At full speed with aircraft launching strikes on the way it will not.

[Mr.Frag]

Its not that you have much choice, Damien. Were you planning on not using a base until you got it up to 10+?

Bases function quite fine under this level, they just don't hold 999,999 supplies and fuel. There are limits that means you need to send supplies and fuel on a regular basis, not a massive one shot TF.

[Onime No Kyo]

Thank you Frag, I have my answer. [&o]

[Nikademus]

No Japan player can afford to dump massive amounts of supply or fuel at a size 1 base, even if it gains him a short term bennie in terms of a 'quick refuel'. Between the spoilage and the fuel usuage by the ships....Japan will quickly find itself dry.

Technically the Allied player could ignore this but such tactics will increase his logistics headache. Remember these are 24 hour turns......not 1 week Pacwar turns, and not 24 turns in a small UV map. it takes serious TIME to ship all that black gold from the US west coast and will complicate the timing of operations and sustained campaigns.

[Jonny_B]

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Mr. Nikademus:

Since the forum is already discussing fuel and supply rates.
Does the AI computer ever make any miscalculations, such as low fuel or supplies at forward bases?
I know I will make quite a few while playing, and that is part of the game.
Realizing that you have done something regrettable, being able to overcome a mistake.

[PzLdr]

Its interesting to read about all this discussion on fuel and spoilage, etc. Just as a reminder... It takes infrastructure to hold that Oil and refined fuels. Back in those days you just didn't drop a convoy of several millions of gallons of Oil or fuel without infrastructure to hold it. Now the old 55gal drums is good for tactical unit usage but not fleet refueling... Big Tank farms take time to build for that. I would guess that small size port should not be allow to refuel ships because they didn't have the infrastructure to support those type operations...now maybe for the small PT type boats but not CV, BB, etc. If bases have means to show base infrastructure showing bulk fuel capabilities, I could then believe they have the infrastructure for it.

But I could see building a base to a 3 or larger before getting to sizes that would have the infrastructure. Assuming a new forward base or small port had installed a large bulk fuel holding tank/refueling network to fuel ships etc and handle Ms of gals of fuel is wrong. In keeping the gaming system simple. Limiting bases at levels one or maybe 2 from conducting refueling of TF with large ships in them would seem a good limitation onto the game.

Also, building that type of infrastructure is not done by the simple combat engineer type units. Hvy construction units with Hvy Engineer equipment would be needed.

[Mr.Frag]

Since the forum is already discussing fuel and supply rates.
Does the AI computer ever make any miscalculations, such as low fuel or supplies at forward bases?
I know I will make quite a few while playing, and that is part of the game.
Realizing that you have done something regrettable, being able to overcome a mistake.

The AI is not always the brightest at making the logic jump between a base requiring fuel and knowing that a TF is going to show up and drain the base of fuel. There are things built into the system to deal with that type of situation. You'll likely find yourself making exactly the same mistakes the AI does so don't be too hard on the AI code. It plays as well as an average player. If you feel that is not good enough, increase the difficulty level which increases the AI's abilities to spank you.