hoi2 ?

[SemperAugustus]

PM Flori on the paradox forum. I think he is in charge.

[Speedysteve]

Thanks Semper - never knew there was a forum! Do you have the link to the forum at all?

Thanks

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Thanks Semper - never knew there was a forum! Do you have the link to the forum at all?

Thanks

try http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?

[Speedysteve]

Thanks Bodhi

[ancient doctor]

Poor man.You decided to get involved with these people?
Anyway i hope you wont regret it if HoI2 is better then the original half baked bulls...t they have released so far.
Anyway from what i know so far they still seem not to be capable of making naval air units function as they should(they arent independant in the game just an add on of CV which means they are not capable of independant action)while GG made it more than ok 10 years ago.

[Koper]

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

Poor man.You decided to get involved with these people?
Anyway i hope you wont regret it if HoI2 is better then the original half baked bulls...t they have released so far.
Anyway from what i know so far they still seem not to be capable of making naval air units function as they should(they arent independant in the game just an add on of CV which means they are not capable of independant action)while GG made it more than ok 10 years ago.

What do you mean "they were not capable"? That was design decision, that's all - some aspects of warfare are presented with more detail, some with less. More often then not, carrier air groups operated from carrier then anything else, so I guess it's acceptable simplification. [:D]

[freeboy]

this game could be a ten minuits turn rather than a one hour pulse, and detail the logistics down to cleaning the latrine, but instead it is an unusual happy medium where in you get many different types of air sea and land units with many upgrade paths, and lots of chioce for developement and research to stear your country. I agree HOI was TERRIBLE, but this product is actually a very fine game, thouroughly enjoyable

[ravinhood]

In all fairness, HOI 2 is the same game as HOI 1, it's just got different mechanics, it's the same WAR, the same Operational Strategy level game it was and there's LESS unit detail than there was in HOI 1. No different looking planes to distinguish between plane types, might just as well use the NATO counters, I think that was their plan. There's some more provinces, wooptiedoo, big deal there. The graphics are as plain as before, no major improvements there. It really is just patch 1.06c continued into another mechanical version of the same game. Just another $40 for the same wargame with a different mechanical engine because the first one was so messed up. But, the fanbois will live and die and breathe for it, because they are zombies to the Paradox developers.

My opinion, if you don't have HOI 1, then get HOI 2 if this type of "real time" game play is your cup of tea for a wargame. If you have HOI 1, wait a few more months and grab this game out of the bargain bin, you'll get a more polished and for sure "PATCHED" game in that length of time, it's just the Paradox way, patching is their life after the game.

Now on a better related note. Rome Total War's patch 1.2 is out and is worth the ticket to this game now. The battle ai is much improved and there's finally a challenge to be found in the game. Took them nearly five months to "almost finish" this game. It still has some diplomacy issues and still ai problems in stacking armies, but, with a few modifications it's worth it's price now which should be probably less than $20 on ebay.

If anything playing the custom battles alone makes it worth the $20 bucks. You can setup 8 armies now in custom battles and have an 8 way ffa king of the hill or mix and match teams. Quite fun if you have the system to handle 20,000 units on the screen at once.

[freeboy]

the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?

I agree, his comments seem to have this feel of a personal vendetta against the company which distracts from any valid points being made. Therefore, I discount any information or commentary in his posts. Which is sad, because he obviously has lots of ideas and commentary to contribute.

[ancient doctor]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

ORIGINAL: freeboy

the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?

I agree, his comments seem to have this feel of a personal vendetta against the company which distracts from any valid points being made. Therefore, I discount any information or commentary in his posts. Which is sad, because he obviously has lots of ideas and commentary to contribute.

Idont know about personal vendetta against Paradox or anything.What i do know is that they have a well earned reputation of releasing half baked products which later on they patch and patch but the games still have a rather healthy list of bugs/not working features and more.Now in some aspects HoI 2 is improved from the previous but as far as i know not that much to be worthy the money now.Few months later when it will only be few $ maybe yes.

As about naval air well i suggest to the forumite who said it is ok to try play it and use the CAG for bombardment and then tell me if he can...

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?

I'm just speaking the truth Freeboy, I'm not a fanboi like you and some others are. I told the poster what he asked for. It's the same game else it wouldn't be called HOI with a 2 after it. Only the mechanics are different, not the war, not the game type. It's an rts game of WWII grand operational strategy, just like HOI 1 was.

And that's my perogative to be objective about certain games. If they don't meet my criteria. HOI 2 is junk to me. That's all that really matters now isn't it?

And I'm perfectly happy with you not liking the Total War games. Doesn't change my mind about them one bit. But, I will certainly ream any game that doesn't deliver out of the box quality. Paradox is well known for not delivering out of the box quality, that's for sure. Hawking out HOI 2 like it's some NEW game is a joke. It's just a refurbished HOI 1 and well shouldn't have many bugs or flaws since all they did was adjust the UI and some tech issues and change combat to movement is combat, big whooptidoodoo. Hardly a NEW game by a long shot pal. It's HOI 1 1.10 lol

[pasternakski]

My question is this: If you want to talk about another publisher's products, why don't you take the discussion to the forums they provide?

[freeboy]

Raverdude, I love the total war series, where did you get that I do not... as I recall you where the one when RTW came out saying how great Sparten was and RTW sucked.. my point is that HOI2 is a easily learned, multifacited game tht is rtw, and I am a big turn based fan.. Calling me a fanboy is well, odd. I LOVE MAtrix, but am the first to bitch when they drop the ball on something as simple as letting us know a slowdown on a release date.. BIN and DR etc.... so again, PAradox must have a special place in your heart.. is there anything they have released you like? My personal opinion about bugs, if you cannot live with them, WAIT... almost all developers are getting MORE complex and attempting to stretch the envelope, and rightly so... and we are the new BETA... you and I.. if thats not for you.. or me, we should wait till patch 1.x comes out.... as it appears you did for RTW...

[pasternakski]

My question is this: If you want to talk about another publisher's products, why don't you take the discussion to the forums they provide?

[freeboy]

Your ? is like saying, there is only one place to discuss this.. as a member of this forum, I like hearing from members of this forum, thinking a cross pollonation. There are all kinds here, and many members like myself are interested in things non matrix.. are not you?
If you do not like this thread.. sorry.. but I do not see how it is in any way detrimental having a GENERAL forum to discuss these types of items.. imo

[ravinhood]

PAradox must have a special place in your heart.. is there anything they have released you like?

You see you misunderstand me freeboy. I like HOI and I like EU II, this has nothing to do with the reaming that I give Paradox. What I don't like is paying to be a beta tester for their products. This is a common practice by them that is easily seen by the numerous patches for every one of their games.

Thus, my strategy for buying their particular games is to wait on the "finished" product or find it on ebay for under $20. This is exactly what I did with RTW. I sure didn't pay $49.95 for it.

You think after seeing RTW out of the box I will ever even think about buying one of their games retail? (On a side note, I've yet to buy one of their games retail anyway. I got MTW/STW in the bargain bin at Software etc. just because they were $4.99, never was even interested in them till that point).

It's not a vendetta against Paradox, it's a vendetta against this constant, buy it now, we'll fix it later policy that has grown way out of proportion to how it used to be. Used to be you got a pretty darn decent game out of the box and a patch was to actually fix MINOR BUGS and not fix the whole game or redo it from scratch. HOI 1.06c is nothing like HOI 1.00, lord knows it's so totally different you can't even play the same way.

RTW was identical in that it was totally messed up out of the box, had many "game feature" issues out of the box that from any unblind mans eye could see this should have been caught in beta and early testing.

If people want to be fans of Paradox or any other company for that matter, that's fine, but, I'm not going to let a sugar coated thread go by without giving my rendition and opinion about their games. Past, present or future.

When I see a game is "simular" in many ways to a past game, I'm gonna tell people. HOI 2 is exactly what HOI 1 was, a grand operational strategy game of WWII, now can you doubt that?

If I believe waiting six months to buy a product is better overall for the consumer (because of all this buy it now we'll fix it later) and save them frustration and money, I will do that also.

I have never said "don't buy a Paradox product" go back and read my posts, I have said "wait" to buy it, you'll get a better more polished game (after the patches). And I'm getting that way with just about all computer games nowadays. The smartest thing to do is wait out the retail fanboish rush and save lots of money and frustration. It took nearly five months for the RTW patch. It made RTW what it should have been out of the box, but, in my opinion is still in need of more tweaking patches to fix BUGS and not features.

Now on that note, have I bought WitP? BIN? Alexander? Korsun Pocket, HTTR? anything "newly" released by Matrix? Nope sure haven't. But, I have bought some of the older titles like the Mega Campaign games for SPWAW. I have also just bought Eagles Strike and Gettysburg by HPS.

I'll be watching GGWAW, and this new CAESAR campaigns by Koios and EMPIRE IN ARMS, I have an interest in those, but, I still won't fanboishly rush out and buy any of them. I'll watch the forums and would bet 100 to 1 that all 3 of these games will require patches upon release and more than 1.

I did buy another retail game already this year. Take Command 1861 or now called Civil War Bull Run, because it was $17.99 at NWS. Not a major loss if the game is crap, but, I've read a bunch of posts on it now that say otherwise. The price is right even if it does require patching. $49.95 and higher is not. If HOI 2 was $20 or less on retail I would have bought it after reading the forums and reviews. But, it's not and I know it will be in need of several patches, so I am not going to toss out $39.95 or at one place it was $54.95 lol for a game that's not finished yet.

I have also preordered ANGLO GERMAN WAR by Schwerpunkt, I bought it because these are backyard developers who take their time and do not charge and arm and a leg for their games out of the box. It is over my $20 limit, but, I am taking a chance on this game based on their "past" performance. Take their time, test, test, test and then release to the public for a very reasonable price. It may be crap and totally broken out of the box, I don't expect this and this is their only chance to impress me.

[freeboy]

You think after seeing RTW out of the box I will ever even think about buying one of their games retail? (On a side note, I've yet to buy one of their games retail anyway. I got MTW/STW in the bargain bin at Software etc. just because they were $4.99, never was even interested in them till that point).

RTW was a Activision/ Creative Assembly product.. is there a connection with them and Paradox? don't think so.. so.. let me paraphrase.. you thing HOI2 is athe same game, like mabe all the Combat missions, all the Civ products all the endless game developers that tweek there code and release another title?...
AND you believe in the old fashioned conceipt of gleaning.. I have no problem with that... like seeing last years movies after the are in Blockbuster or where ever at a discount...
You are bargain savy, but don't be prejudicial to those of us that are not always found of waiting... thanks for the input.. no hard feeling for me.. I do want to hear what you have to say

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

You think after seeing RTW out of the box I will ever even think about buying one of their games retail? (On a side note, I've yet to buy one of their games retail anyway. I got MTW/STW in the bargain bin at Software etc. just because they were $4.99, never was even interested in them till that point).

RTW was a Activision/ Creative Assembly product.. is there a connection with them and Paradox? don't think so.. so.. let me paraphrase.. you thing HOI2 is athe same game, like mabe all the Combat missions, all the Civ products all the endless game developers that tweek there code and release another title?...
AND you believe in the old fashioned conceipt of gleaning.. I have no problem with that... like seeing last years movies after the are in Blockbuster or where ever at a discount...
You are bargain savy, but don't be prejudicial to those of us that are not always found of waiting... thanks for the input.. no hard feeling for me.. I do want to hear what you have to say

Yes, that's me in a nutshell. It just seems many think I have a vendetta against Paradox GAMES, when it's not the games at all. It's PARADOX, just Paradox and all the other companies that are using us for beta testing their games at a cost to us and not them.

And yep, if it's one Combat Mission, the next Combat Mission is still a Combat Mission and I also waited on CMBB and CMAK before buying those also.

Give me a new game a new title and don't try to sell me the same game with mechanical improvements for full retail and I'll take a look at it. Like this "Take Command 1861", I'm taking a look at it because it's not a repeat of another title, it's not "Take Command 1861 TWO".

I also don't "make" anyone do anything, unless they let me make them, meaning they turn over their mind and body to me, my wife is like that. lol

We all have our preferences and differences and opinions. Just that seems if someone is on the "negative" side of someone elses opinion like I am most times, it turns into a flame war. I'm just stating "my facts" of what I see in these games. People can take it with a grain of salt or not, but, the point is, like TOM PETTY sings "I WON'T BACK DOWN, NO, I WON'T BACK DOWN" hehe

The balance of life is "positive AND negative" it takes both for life to exist. Try to see each situation where you have nothing but positive or nothing but negative, maybe you'll see why I tip the scales to the negative side of games, since there is all too often a positive side in most cases.

In an ironic way I am "optomistic" that my "pessimistic" attitude will have positive affects on an otherwise negative encounter.

[freeboy]

ok, So now we are agreed, you think RTW is ? good I guess, and maybe hoi2, too, but have a dislike for games that are supported but not patched up until released to the public.. ok.. and you like a bargain...

Why does "telling the truth" allow you to trash HOI2.. have you played it?
anyway.. Almost every game company is relesing games that are in need of testing, part of the complexity issue...