Considering getting WitP, some questions

[Skipster]

Hi all, I've been considering getting this game for a little while, and have been lurking around the forums a bit, and have some questions:

How long (in hours) would you estimate a campaign would take, assuming I stated as early as possible? (Is there a '41-'45 campaign?)

How long does it take to get through, say, a week of game time?

How is the AI? I like to put in long stetches of gaming time, PBEM may not be for me. (although I know from HoI that you can't match a human opponent for enjoyment)

Is the micromanagement (I assume there is some ) adjustable? To different degrees?

I like the idea that all the ship and aircraft types seem to be in there. Are the differences between, say, a Zero and a Wildcat meaningful? Or just window dressing?

It looks like I have to order it online, but I have no credit card, although I notice there are other payment options. Has anyone (from other than US, I'm from Canada) ordered the game using a cheque or MO, and how easy was it?

Is there anything I should know about the game as far as features go?

Thanx in advance for answers. The last computer game I played focussing on this conflict was Carriers at War on my Apple IIc

I know that there is a game Uncommon Valour, but I figure that WitP, being newer, is likely better (especially in the graphics dept. - I'm only a grognard-lite ), and it seems it has a broader scope.

[donkuchi19]

There is a scenerio from 1941 - 1946. I can sit down on a Saturday and get about 30 days in if my kids are out with my wife, I don't eat or drink much, and the phone doesn't ring. Of course this is against the AI.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Skipster

Hi all, I've been considering getting this game for a little while, and have been lurking around the forums a bit, and have some questions:

How long (in hours) would you estimate a campaign would take, assuming I stated as early as possible? (Is there a '41-'45 campaign?)

My god, a long time. I was originally daunted by that but its not actually much of a problem, the travel is probably more interesting than the destination. After all you know the almost certain destination - Japan loses.

How is the AI? I like to put in long stetches of gaming time, PBEM may not be for me. (although I know from HoI that you can't match a human opponent for enjoyment)

I do 2 or 3 turns a day at PBEM on average I think, and I am far less diligent than other people are. It's not really a big deal, again, I was surprised by how enjoyable it is. Never played a PBEM game before.

Is the micromanagement (I assume there is some ) adjustable? To different degrees?

Not really. You can turn some sectors over to the AI to run, so if China bores you you can let the computer do it - and you can set the AI up to run convoys for you but I think neither are a good idea.

I like the idea that all the ship and aircraft types seem to be in there. Are the differences between, say, a Zero and a Wildcat meaningful? Or just window dressing?

Definitely not window dressing, extremely meaningful differences. It's definitely not Hearts of Iron in that regard.

Is there anything I should know about the game as far as features go?

Ground combat is a bit disappointing but aside from China it doesnt really feature much. The ground combat system is designed for invading atolls really rather than grand land campaigns. I don't find it a major irk. Aside from that I have almost no problems with the game personally.

I'd like to see surface combat more but thats as I love battleships. [:D]. I think surface combat really has a back seat to aircraft, but then thats realistic I guess.

I know that there is a game Uncommon Valour, but I figure that WitP, being newer, is likely better (especially in the graphics dept. - I'm only a grognard-lite ), and it seems it has a broader scope.

This really is a grog game, not even grog-lite. [:)]. Still, I was only a grog lite, and now I am almost a real grog so I guess it's good. [:D].

Graphics are identical to UV. Really, UV is the same game as WitP, but in a much smaller area, ie the South Pacific, and without the feedback that UV players gave to Matrix. Its got the same engine pretty much. There is no need to buy UV if your getting WitP, there is even a scenario in WitP that effectively duplicates UV but with the improved game mechanics that WitP offers.

[rroberson]

Just get it. It will be the best money you have spent all year.

[Rocco]

To be totally honest, the AI is better than Hearts of Iron. I'm not saying the AI in WitP is especially good, but it beats HOI2 or 1.

That's paradox's biggest downfall is the AI. And multiplayer is hardly an option for a turn based fan like me. I hate real time.

What is time, really?

Rocco

[rogueusmc]

here are the out of box scenarios.

Rocco, I'll get ya a turn back tonight...I ain't forgot about ya.

[Knavey]

ORIGINAL: Rocco

To be totally honest, the AI is better than Hearts of Iron. I'm not saying the AI in WitP is especially good, but it beats HOI2 or 1.

That's paradox's biggest downfall is the AI. And multiplayer is hardly an option for a turn based fan like me. I hate real time.

What is time, really?

Rocco

Hey Rocco,

You should try multiplayer in WitP. There are several 2 on 2 and at least one 3 on 3 game going and they are even more interesting than the way it was set up for 1 on 1 in my opinion.

[Grotius]

Skipster, this game is an order of magnitude more detailed and complex than HOI or HOI2. It's rather overwhelming at first. The game map is absolutely enormous, stretching in 60-mile hexes from San Francisco to Karachi. The ocean hexes between Hawaii and California fill the entire screen. The game tries to model every plane, pilot, and significant ship in the entire theater. And yes, there's a world of difference between each aircraft. You'll come to know and love the difference between an A6M2 Zero and an A6M3 Zero, or between a P-40B and a P-40E.

Go for it! Just realize that this game does not stint on detail, and it will take you hours to set up your first campaign-game turn. But against the AI, yeah, you can do a couple weeks of game-time a night.

I dunno about payment options. The game is only available online; maybe there's an online check you can use?

[Rocco]

@ rogue- No problem man, I think it's about to wrap up in a turn or two.

@ Knavey- I like multiplayer in turn based games, and 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 sounds fun, but I would hate to be the guy that slowed down 5 other players because I couldn't get a turn back for a day or two (just ask Rogueusmc, there's been times when I didn't get a turn back to him for a couple days). That's the toughest part about PBEM, there's times when I just cannot get a turn back every day, as much as I wish I could. If I'm laid off I can get 15 turns a day back to my opponent. It's feast or famine. DON'T EVER BECOME A CARPENTER!!!!

Rocco

[Tom Hunter]

quote:

Hi all, I've been considering getting this game for a little while, and have been lurking around the forums a bit, and have some questions:

How long (in hours) would you estimate a campaign would take, assuming I stated as early as possible? (Is there a '41-'45 campaign?)

I would bet that you can average about 1 hour per day against the AI once you get a handle on the game, maybe quicker depending in part on how new your computer is.

How long does it take to get through, say, a week of game time?

Do the math from above. The early game can be very time consuming for Japan. Basically as you get everything organized for an offensive your turns become more complex, then as you finish the offensive they get simpler, then you start to prepare again.

How is the AI? I like to put in long stetches of gaming time, PBEM may not be for me. (although I know from HoI that you can't match a human opponent for enjoyment)

AI is ok but you should plan on restraining yourself. If you do things to see if you can break the AI... well I will tell you a secret, your already much smarter than a computer program and the AI will break every time you try.

Is the micromanagement (I assume there is some ) adjustable? To different degrees?

Not really, except that you can turn parts of the map over to the computer. That works best for China.

I like the idea that all the ship and aircraft types seem to be in there. Are the differences between, say, a Zero and a Wildcat meaningful? Or just window dressing?

The differences between a Zero and a Wildcat are huge. Range, combat ability, surviability, operational losses are all there.

It looks like I have to order it online, but I have no credit card, although I notice there are other payment options. Has anyone (from other than US, I'm from Canada) ordered the game using a cheque or MO, and how easy was it?

Sorry don't know about this.


Is there anything I should know about the game as far as features go?

Resist the urge to get upset about any one thing that goes wrong on a given day. There is a lot of variability from day to day which averages out over time. Don't think your actually running your ships, land units and air groups. They are being run by a computer that is insane. You are just placing them in harms way to see what your mad microprocessor subordinate does with them. That does not mean you have no control, but you don't have control of the ships actually fighting, you just send them to a place where you think they will fight, then you get to see if they do. Once this sinks in your will start to enjoy the game a lot more.

Everything in the game has to be done a certain way. For example if you want a ship to gaurd a port you have to make that port its home port or it will fight a battle then run for its currently designated home port. There are a lot of tricks to getting you units to perform the way you want them to. Personally I have taken to sacrificing chickens and smearing myself with their blood by moonlight. Recently that worked really well and 1,000 of my opponents Zeros dissapeared. Sadly we had to start the game over because he felt that was unfair.

[Tom Hunter]

Here is a shot of preparation for the next offensive:

[Blackwatch_it]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Here is a shot of preparation for the next offensive:

Don't worry, my secret weapons departments is working on vodoo dolls.

[freeboy]

To be totally honest, the AI is better than Hearts of Iron. I'm not saying the AI in WitP is especially good, but it beats HOI2 or 1.

OK, I dissagree, while I compare WITP to HOI2 like steakwhich would be WITP to a nice burger.. HOI2
the ai in witp isn't good againstthe non orthedox.. so to keep it in the game you must tailor your play or else it really not tooo good... Hoi2 like wise does somethings ok, but do not expect mericles at the easier levels...

If you are hopingto geta game that is more like a favorite tv show that you can turn on and play every once in awhile Witp is great.. if you need to finish a game in a month.. leave it alone...

[bradfordkay]

I play against the AI, and average about a turn (1 day of game time) an hour, like Tom Hunter (except for the first turn - expect to spend a few hours getting that set up). I have found that the AI is not overly predictable, and it is a reasonable opponent. The comments about using outrageous tactics (strategies) confusing the AI are probably legit, but I've never experienced them.

For me, it is definitely a situation of the travel being the joy, as opposed to reaching a particular destination. I'm having fun watching my own war play out. It doesn't always go my way, but it has been quite interesting. The game has been more than worth my money.

[Knavey]

Most guys who are looking for a very quick turnover of turns are playing several games at once. I have (or will have soon) three of them going and I am NOT one of those guys who can crank out 5-6 turns a day. I normally play the allies as a team with my brother, and I know our opponents also have several games going. This alleviates the waiting for the next turn, because you do have several turns in the pipeline. I don't think Feinder and I have ever felt slowed up just because someone could not get a turn out of the door for a day or so since we know most of the guys also have another turn from another game on the way. Working for the electric company makes for some VERY long hours (12-14 hour days, 6 days a week average) so I know what it means to only wish you could get 6 turns out during a day.

Give team pbem a try, and just let your opponents know the situation before you start. Many people out there are in the same boat as we are, and would welcome a not so fast paced game.

[Graymane]

ORIGINAL: Skipster

Hi all, I've been considering getting this game for a little while, and have been lurking around the forums a bit, and have some questions:

I just bought the game a couple of days ago, so I can help a bit from a newbie perspective.

How long (in hours) would you estimate a campaign would take, assuming I stated as early as possible? (Is there a '41-'45 campaign?)

How long does it take to get through, say, a week of game time?

Ummm...an infinitely long time I am playing where each turn is 1 day. I think you can set it for 1 week turns as well (or anything in between). Just playing the little scenarios takes a VERY long time. Against the AI in a small scenario, I can maybe get 3 weeks in per session.

How is the AI? I like to put in long stetches of gaming time, PBEM may not be for me. (although I know from HoI that you can't match a human opponent for enjoyment)

It seems fairly stupid in some respects and pretty good in others. One thing I did was to play the computer vs. the computer (trust me, you will need to do this when learning). From doing that, I was able to learn some things, but I also notice the computer doing some whack things as well.

Is the micromanagement (I assume there is some ) adjustable? To different degrees?

You better define what you consider micromanagement. This is a micromanaging kind of game You pretty much have to manage each and every unit.

I like the idea that all the ship and aircraft types seem to be in there. Are the differences between, say, a Zero and a Wildcat meaningful? Or just window dressing?

Seems to be that way so far. There are pronounced differences between newer and older models such that really old stuff is very useless against newer stuff.

Is there anything I should know about the game as far as features go?

I know that there is a game Uncommon Valour, but I figure that WitP, being newer, is likely better (especially in the graphics dept. - I'm only a grognard-lite ), and it seems it has a broader scope.

Don't buy the game for the graphics, they aren't very good. They spent the time on the game instead. Hmm..stuff to know. Well, I just got the game, so I don't know much, but I do know what I don't know

1. Don't even think about starting with a campaign, start with one of the first few scenarios.
2. Start with the allies. The japanese have even more stuff to manage than the allies.
3. Play the tutorial. Is it really just another scenario, you have to actually open the tutorial.pdf and follow what to do there. That will give you some idea of the interface.
4. Let the computer play itself. You can hit F9 while the resolution is going on and it will stop at the next orders phase.
5. Tell me if you can find a good beginners guide, cause I can't There is a links section up at the top of the forum with a site with a beginners guide, but it isn't really a BEGINNERs guide if you know what I mean
6. Read through the aars and the war room for some ideas on things.
7. Read the manual. This is one game where you really need to read the manual.

[Gem35]

I assume you love strategy and this game is all about that. You have full tactical command of your Navy, Army, and Air Forces as well as a lot of 'what if's ' on where to send fuel and supplies. You have to decide which bases to grow and protect and so on and so forth. This is the mother of all strategy sims in my humble opinion. You will spend countless hours 'holed up in your warroom' and countless others thinking and planning while doing boring activities such as going to work and listening to a nagging wife.[;)]

As I myself am a relative 'noob', I play exclusively against the Jap AI. My first few games were either scenario 15 or 16, the entire war from 41 to 46. After getting demoralized in the first month or so, at least I was hehe, you start having an urge to get 'even' and you plan to launch attacks of your own. In this regard, the AI is too easy, even on the hardest difficulty setting. I would invade, take an island, load the base with engineers, grow the airfiels large enough and bomb the tar out of the enemy airfields in range , rinse an repeat. The AI simply won't counter your moves like a human most certainly would. I now understand that I was playing this simulation completely wrong, even though at those times I was having fun, it's alot more enjoyable now, if that makes any sense

[barbarrossa]

Yeah, if you play the AI on the long, long campaign, yeah you can build big bases up right in the path of the Japanese months before they try to invade Lunga (Guadalcanal) or Port Moresby and hit them hard from there, especially if you evac stuff from DEI.

Try the 42a scenario and the tables are turned (starts May '42). The AI WANTS PM very badly you have no forward supply, a/c, base forces, political points....nothing hardly at all. Just getting supply convoy to PM is a hazard. Your CV's will be ducking for cover everytime "KB and Friends" show up on thier cruises of the azure waters of the Coral Sea. And there are mighty few fighters to even challenge IJN attacks.

Allied subs are now tamed in 1.5, they're not sinking everything they run across.

The most success I've had is ASW by a/c and a few hit and run jobs with the CV's on tankers dropping fuel at Lunga.

Definitely much more challenging than the ver 1.0 I played until later '43.

But the "sleeping giant" stirs as we speak.............[:D]

[Skipster]

ORIGINAL: freeboy



If you are hopingto geta game that is more like a favorite tv show that you can turn on and play every once in awhile Witp is great.. if you need to finish a game in a month.. leave it alone...

That's exactly what I wanted to hear [:)]

I guess my question on micromanagement was badly worded. In HoI, for example, it seems to me that there's a lot of unnecessary micromanagement, for example if I don't want to upgrade some of my obsolete forces to save resources (I can use them in a secondary theatre), it's not at all intuitive how I can do that, and it requires frequent monitoring to make sure it happens the way I intended. I assume a game of this scale and scope would be heavy on necessary micromanagement. I'm just hoping it's the type where you get lost in minutiae, rather than buried in frustration

As for graphics, I'm not looking for 3D antialiased type stuff. Just something that's pleasing to the eye, and helps with immersion. (That's why I went with boardgames instead of computer games in the 80's [:D]) From the screenies I've seen, WitP has great graphics for my purposes.

Thanks for all the answers, guys. I'm sold. Now I just have to figure out the fastest way to get it [:D]

[Graymane]

ORIGINAL: Skipster

ORIGINAL: freeboy



If you are hopingto geta game that is more like a favorite tv show that you can turn on and play every once in awhile Witp is great.. if you need to finish a game in a month.. leave it alone...

That's exactly what I wanted to hear [:)]

I guess my question on micromanagement was badly worded. In HoI, for example, it seems to me that there's a lot of unnecessary micromanagement, for example if I don't want to upgrade some of my obsolete forces to save resources (I can use them in a secondary theatre), it's not at all intuitive how I can do that, and it requires frequent monitoring to make sure it happens the way I intended. I assume a game of this scale and scope would be heavy on necessary micromanagement. I'm just hoping it's the type where you get lost in minutiae, rather than buried in frustration

As for graphics, I'm not looking for 3D antialiased type stuff. Just something that's pleasing to the eye, and helps with immersion. (That's why I went with boardgames instead of computer games in the 80's [:D]) From the screenies I've seen, WitP has great graphics for my purposes.

Thanks for all the answers, guys. I'm sold. Now I just have to figure out the fastest way to get it [:D]

Well, for graphics, it is just a big hex map Basically, think of your favorite board game strategy game and imagine it on your computer screen.

HOI is a substantially different beast (I'm a long-time Paradox gamer) so I know what you are talking about. So far it doesn't seem too bad micro-management wise for this game. On the other hand, if you are coming from HOI, some things ARE going to be a bit more frustrating because you have less control over what might be familar things to you.

About the only thing bugging me right now, is that I don't have a good grip on the combat model or gaming model in general that is used. Sort of like you play 1 paradox game, you will be familar with all others. While there is a lot of detail in the game, there is also a lot of stuff that you more or less have to calculate in your head. i.e., lets say you want to load 2 divisons onto transport and sail them 10 hexes away to land on a beach. How many transports do you need? If you want them to load the fastest, what is the best organization? If you want them to unload the fastest, what is the best organization? If you want them to get there the fastest, what is the best organization? If you want to use the fewest transports, what is the best? I think after playing a long time it might be intuitive, but for now, it takes trial and error.

Another thing is combat. The combat engine seems to use an abstract Attack Strength number for both the defender and the attack modified by the usual stuff. When you hover your mouse over the base, it will tell you the total troop strength (combat and non-combat all added together) but you only really know your attack strength. Very, very hard to compare for a newbie. So I basically have no clue when to attack and what kind of attack to use

But that is small potatoes, I really love this game a lot so far. After being so frustrated with the crappy air and naval model in HOI 2, I'm loving this.