Stopping the WA early Denmark gambit?

[Ramblinman]

What level of Denmark garrison is sufficient to prevent this?

Obviously, the "old" standard of 1 arty and 1 AAA is not enough. Add a fighter? A fighter and another AAA?

As near as I can tell, the WA can strike with two CAG and 1 HB plus Naval Support if they want to risk it.

Or is it better to keep the Denmark defense force modest and maintain extra forces in Western Poland to counter-attack should East Prussia fall?

[Lebatron]

I guess an infantry would be important too. With their higher evasion they can get hard to knock out by air alone. When you start to worry about WA airpower add another flak.

About that East Prussia Gambit. If I was playing someone who used such a cheap and dirty exploit to unfreeze the Soviets, I would stop playing them. Having Russia unfreeze that way is just not in the spirit of the games system. Gary and the others just did not see this potential exploit.

[JanSorensen]

A FTR is the best option to add imho. Not only does that fend off one of the WA bombers it also perform op-fire on ships the WA tries to sail into the Baltic.

I disagree with Lebatron that this is an exploit. It was initially even easier to do this as the WA but a small change in the garrison rule means its just something the German player has to be on guard against. If anything the problem is that the WA has too large an invasion capability initially - but maybe that will be adressed when the AV is patched.

[Daykeras]

Wait, so the WA attacks the german garrison in prussia, reducing it's size and bringing the soviets in the war?

[Svend Karlson]

ORIGINAL: Daykeras

Wait, so the WA attacks the german garrison in prussia, reducing it's size and bringing the soviets in the war?

Yes, that can happen

[Daykeras]

Is that what they're refering to? But doesn't that only apply if Germany doesn't re-garrison their turn?

[Svend Karlson]

ORIGINAL: Daykeras
Is that what they're refering to? But doesn't that only apply if Germany doesn't re-garrison their turn?

Yes, and yes. But generally Germany would not be able to re-garrison during their next turn as the allies can land several units to hold E.Prussia. Poland is the only bordering province with units & also has a garrison requirement. Germany's panzers will be far away.

So unless you specifically guard against it, say by putting & art+flak in E.Prussia or additional infantry in Poland, it can be very effective.

[JanSorensen]

Look here: tm.asp?m=903174 for a screenshot of what it looks like.

[Daykeras]

oh, wow... That's totally broken.

[Lebatron]

Yes it is. And I stick to what I said above about it being a cheap trick even though JanSorensen doesn't think so. In the game I think it’s OK to let the WA's invade there if they want to, I just don't believe such a thing would have made Stalin break his pact with Hitler. That’s flunky and unrealistic, and I think the WA player would not invade there if it didn't unfreeze the Soviets. The solution is to house rule it. Agree before the game starts to not pull that crap. Another solution would be to remove the incentive to do so. I will remove the garrison requirement in my mod, and increase Poland’s garrison requirement by 1 to even it out. In this way the WA’s can land at Prussia if they want to, it just will not cause the Soviets to enter the war.

Try out Strait Deal and Franco's Alliance. Link here

[JanSorensen]

In a game of this scale I find that you have to allow for a good deal of "un-realism" in order to make a good game.

Case: Japan attacks Russia. After having been stumped in 38 by Zhukov I think its safe to say that the Japanese would be fairly reluctant to attack Russia again. However, in terms of WaW it happens very often.

So, carefully consider that if you rule out all the scenarios you consider unrealistic then you risk A) hampering one side from putting up a fight or B) making the game stale and boring as only the "party line" play is allowed.

If you want to play strictly historically then by all means do so - but just remember that the more you do so the less game is left to play.

[Ramblinman]

Thanks for all the replies in this thread as well as others. It's posts like these that help us noobs get up to speed quicker.

Actually, I'm not sure that even the fighter, AAA, arty, infantry force would always be sufficient.

If the two CAGs can manage to damage the fighter (about 40% chance?), the bomber can usually take out the arty by itself or with Naval support.

A 40% chance at a quick victory isn't too bad for the risk of 1-2 damaged aircraft.

[Lebatron]

More on this topic is debated on my thread "Another political question for the WWII experts"
Link here

[toddtreadway]

I've taken to leaving two inf, two art, one AA gun and a bomber in Denmark on the first turn. Probably overkill.