It seems very strange that every wargame (except ASL which gives elite squads to all Canadians except newbies) doesn't give Canucks there due reward.
Most German officers regarded Canadians as there toughest opponents in the war.
Not only was the Canadian army mostly volunteer but they also fought in almost every major battle in the West Front (with the hardest initial objectives too!!!)
I don't want to sound like a Canadian patriot, but I think they need an overhaul.
___________________________________________
Another Crazy Canuck
Canadians not taken serious!!
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Well I would consider the Poles the bravest . They were the best pilots in the battle of britain and the where brave enough to fight even without a strategic leadership . But I must admind that the Canadians could be represented more than they are . And troops who are brave enough to land at Dieppe although they know that the British consider there troops as to valuable must be really though
Go get'em Thor. I reenact WWII with the Queens Own Rifles of Canada. I too have read that German Officers considered the Canadians the toughest troops they faced. I believe Patton said "Thank God for the Canadians" Cant remeber where I heard that.
The QoRC their Brigade and the other 2 Brigades were the only units to achieve their D-Day objectives but since most contemporary history is writen by the English and Americans, you don't hear about it. Don't worry guys, not trying to start a dust up here...I am after all an American myself, but I think that Canadians don't get the credit they deserve. Just my 2 cents.
3rd Recon
Semper FI
The QoRC their Brigade and the other 2 Brigades were the only units to achieve their D-Day objectives but since most contemporary history is writen by the English and Americans, you don't hear about it. Don't worry guys, not trying to start a dust up here...I am after all an American myself, but I think that Canadians don't get the credit they deserve. Just my 2 cents.
3rd Recon
Semper FI
-
Desert Fox
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Well, I always thought that Canadians were Americans.
At any rate, Canada doesn't go flaunting their military might or military history, no matter how good it is or was, so its no wonder no one has ever heard of the 'Canadian Army'.
Britain and the States, however, have traditionally prided their excellent military and military history.
At any rate, Canada doesn't go flaunting their military might or military history, no matter how good it is or was, so its no wonder no one has ever heard of the 'Canadian Army'.
Britain and the States, however, have traditionally prided their excellent military and military history.
Thanks for the plug, Tankhead. Just to let you know, I've got a series of Canadian battles on the drawing board -- in Sicily, Italy and the Western Front. I have to agree with Thor in that they were often given crucial objectives (and that continued into the Korean War), and they often had extraordinary results against well-equipped and/or elite German units.Originally posted by Tankhead:
Hi Thor! If you go in the scenario download there's a good scen.. about Canadians. It's call THE Skink by Ed "Moonwolf" Mortimer
Tankhead
Hang on a bit and you'll have some scenarios -- I don't want to rush them, I'd rather get each one done just right.
Ed Mortimer
Meglio un Giorno da Leone
Meglio un Giorno da Leone
-
Infanterie
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
- Contact:
The Canadian military doesn't blow its own horn - but when the fighting starts - watch out. It's always the quiet ones you have to watch out for.
Who can forget Vimy Ridge in WWI? For two years British and French couldn't take it. Canadians took it in one day (and suffered 10,000 casualties). All in a day's work. Throughout the War, the Allies used the Canadians as shock troops. When the Germans knew they were facing Canadian troops, they knew they were in for the fight of their lives. The Canadians were never known to retreat.
In WWII Canada had 1,000,000 citizens under arms (out of a population of only 11,000,000!) That's 10% of the population. By the end of the war, Canada had the third largest navy in the world! It even had aircraft carriers! At least three come to mind including the Bonaventure.
Even in the Vietnam War at least 50,000 Canadians volunteered for active service in the U.S. military.
There were, and are, many brave citizens from all countries. I am not down-playing their role at all (it's just that you don't often hear much about Canada's role). It makes for fascinating reading.
Hey Wild Bill, how about some scenarios based on the Canadians attacking and taking the heavily fortified Scheldt region in Holland? Now there was a battle. Canada lost 7,000 soldiers liberating Holland, and to this day, Holland celebrates it as "Liberation Day", and honours Canada for its role. It has to be seen to be believed.
Don't mind me guys, I thought I'd give my fingers a little exercise on the keyboard.
------------------
A King Tiger can give you a definite edge...
[This message has been edited by Von Rom (edited 06-27-2000).]
Who can forget Vimy Ridge in WWI? For two years British and French couldn't take it. Canadians took it in one day (and suffered 10,000 casualties). All in a day's work. Throughout the War, the Allies used the Canadians as shock troops. When the Germans knew they were facing Canadian troops, they knew they were in for the fight of their lives. The Canadians were never known to retreat.
In WWII Canada had 1,000,000 citizens under arms (out of a population of only 11,000,000!) That's 10% of the population. By the end of the war, Canada had the third largest navy in the world! It even had aircraft carriers! At least three come to mind including the Bonaventure.
Even in the Vietnam War at least 50,000 Canadians volunteered for active service in the U.S. military.
There were, and are, many brave citizens from all countries. I am not down-playing their role at all (it's just that you don't often hear much about Canada's role). It makes for fascinating reading.
Hey Wild Bill, how about some scenarios based on the Canadians attacking and taking the heavily fortified Scheldt region in Holland? Now there was a battle. Canada lost 7,000 soldiers liberating Holland, and to this day, Holland celebrates it as "Liberation Day", and honours Canada for its role. It has to be seen to be believed.
Don't mind me guys, I thought I'd give my fingers a little exercise on the keyboard.
------------------
A King Tiger can give you a definite edge...
[This message has been edited by Von Rom (edited 06-27-2000).]
Thanks for the good word, I needed it! Stuart Millis helped me a lot with his excellent playtest summary. I'll try to keep you working hard on the next one -- vs the Herman Goering Division . . .Originally posted by Tankhead:
Cool Moomwolf, I'll wait patiantlyby the way Canadian Secret Weapon is awesome play the scenario 3 time with different result you really have to use youre forces the right way to win make a fellah think. Keep up the good work soldier.
Tankhead
------------------
Ed Mortimer
Meglio un Giorno da Leone
Ed Mortimer
Meglio un Giorno da Leone
Meglio un Giorno da Leone
If I am not mistaken, a Canadian worked on the OOB. What problem are you having with it? We have two Canucks here working, Frank Donati and Stuart Millis, and there may be others.
So we do indeed give the Canucks their due. If this was an oversight we will correct it.
Peace from south of the border...Wild Bill
------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games
So we do indeed give the Canucks their due. If this was an oversight we will correct it.
Peace from south of the border...Wild Bill
------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant
guys guys GUYS the truly tuffest unit to enter any ww2 front was th NEW ZEALANDERS we not only had Charles Upam winner of two vcs and was given a thrid but they thought that might be to much but there were countless times when kiwis one the day under appaling conditions and little supplys the maori battalion ran out of ammo agianst the elit german paras and got up did the haka a war dance and charged them with cold steel the master race fled. so there is many a tuff unit but for a country of only 3 million even less at that time we hold a loins share of the glory.
"The best form of defence,is attack"
Hooray, hooray! Someone is developing scenarios about some of my favourite theaters and with some of my favourite troops as leading protagonists!Originally posted by Moonwolf:
Thanks for the plug, Tankhead. Just to let you know, I've got a series of Canadian battles on the drawing board -- in Sicily, Italy and the Western Front. I have to agree with Thor in that they were often given crucial objectives (and that continued into the Korean War), and they often had extraordinary results against well-equipped and/or elite German units.
Hang on a bit and you'll have some scenarios -- I don't want to rush them, I'd rather get each one done just right.
I can't wait!!!!
Fabs
Canadians, Poles, Aussies...
who was the bravest? A very difficult question.
The armies fielded by the British Empire and its Commonwealth/Dominions were vast and varied. There were variances even within Divisions according to what time of the war one is looking at. The 7th Armored Division was one thing in North Africa and something else in North West Europe.
This was due partly to the dramatic difference in the terrain and type of fighting and partly because the Division had been engaged longer than most other units, along with the 51st Highland Division (another subdued performer in Normandy) and the 50th Infantry division (fared rather better in Normandy, but had a role that was more centre stage).
Indian, South Africans, New Zealanders, Gurkhas, Scots (arguably different from English troops)and Irish all fought alongside the English, covering themselves with distinction and occasionally falling short of expectations.
In the Steel Panthers series there is a marked interest in all things German, with a resulting sharp focus on the different elements of the German Armed forces, but even here Victorhauser argued, IMO correctly, that too much emphasis was given to Waffen SS (and Fallschirmjaeger) and Wehrmacht elite units, which existed in abundance, (Grossdeutschland, Panzer Lehr and certain Panzer, Panzergrenadier and even Infanterie formations from time to time)do not get any attention.
I believe that within the scope allowed by game design constraints it is difficult to accomodate everyone's preferences and, sometimes, prejudices.
In the "Italian corner" for instance there is a strong body of opinion to the effect that Italian troops are very superficially represented as weak and brittle, where the reality at the tactical level was more complex.
I have always solved the problem by hacking into the variables to model the troops I wanted to behave differently to my taste.
This is laborious, but is the only way in which ultimately everyone can be pleased.
If one designs scenarios for one's own use it is necessary to make many changes to the standard units available to model more realistic situations.
Squads, platoons and companies were rarely homogenously at full strength. If you need to play around with the number of men, and sometimes the weaponry, take a little time to change units and leaders experience, morale and weapon skills values. You can achieve pretty much anything you like.
This is what I love about this game system.
I am not so sure about the behavioural characteristics that are coded into "country training" (in other words, will a high experience/morale Italian squad with a strong leader still rout more readily and perform more poorly than an equivalent German squad?). You can, of course, turn this off, but I am not sure that that would be altogether satisfactory.
------------------
Fabs
[This message has been edited by Fabs (edited 06-28-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Fabs (edited 06-28-2000).]
who was the bravest? A very difficult question.
The armies fielded by the British Empire and its Commonwealth/Dominions were vast and varied. There were variances even within Divisions according to what time of the war one is looking at. The 7th Armored Division was one thing in North Africa and something else in North West Europe.
This was due partly to the dramatic difference in the terrain and type of fighting and partly because the Division had been engaged longer than most other units, along with the 51st Highland Division (another subdued performer in Normandy) and the 50th Infantry division (fared rather better in Normandy, but had a role that was more centre stage).
Indian, South Africans, New Zealanders, Gurkhas, Scots (arguably different from English troops)and Irish all fought alongside the English, covering themselves with distinction and occasionally falling short of expectations.
In the Steel Panthers series there is a marked interest in all things German, with a resulting sharp focus on the different elements of the German Armed forces, but even here Victorhauser argued, IMO correctly, that too much emphasis was given to Waffen SS (and Fallschirmjaeger) and Wehrmacht elite units, which existed in abundance, (Grossdeutschland, Panzer Lehr and certain Panzer, Panzergrenadier and even Infanterie formations from time to time)do not get any attention.
I believe that within the scope allowed by game design constraints it is difficult to accomodate everyone's preferences and, sometimes, prejudices.
In the "Italian corner" for instance there is a strong body of opinion to the effect that Italian troops are very superficially represented as weak and brittle, where the reality at the tactical level was more complex.
I have always solved the problem by hacking into the variables to model the troops I wanted to behave differently to my taste.
This is laborious, but is the only way in which ultimately everyone can be pleased.
If one designs scenarios for one's own use it is necessary to make many changes to the standard units available to model more realistic situations.
Squads, platoons and companies were rarely homogenously at full strength. If you need to play around with the number of men, and sometimes the weaponry, take a little time to change units and leaders experience, morale and weapon skills values. You can achieve pretty much anything you like.
This is what I love about this game system.
I am not so sure about the behavioural characteristics that are coded into "country training" (in other words, will a high experience/morale Italian squad with a strong leader still rout more readily and perform more poorly than an equivalent German squad?). You can, of course, turn this off, but I am not sure that that would be altogether satisfactory.
------------------
Fabs
[This message has been edited by Fabs (edited 06-28-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Fabs (edited 06-28-2000).]
Fabs
-
Spunkgibbon
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 8:00 am
