Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: capitan
The first submission from Jimm! In my opinion an excellent write-up! Keep up the good work!

I agree, this is excellent. [&o][&o][&o] Far more than I dreamed was possible.

My only request would be to explain what the abbreviation RSI stand for.

That is an excellent write-up! There is a nice "Italy in WWII" website out there somewhere with it's own forum that may be helpful for Italian units. This would be a good example of a spot where you may wish to mention that the WiF counter represents a division that you as The Duce _can_ build but that historically it never was deployed in divisional strength, to help keep the scale of WiF in perspective.

I am in the middle of moving and any reference materials I have are deep in the storage area and will be until next spring. I am off to the Mother Russia thread momentarily to see what I can contribute there. I would be willing to try and work up some text explaining WiF units as I understand them but it will be another week or so before I free up much regular Internet time.

Again on the MIL, recall that the WiF counters are very far from a complete Order of Battle for any country in WiF. It could be said that the MIL units represent Infantry corps that existed in the war but not as a numerical designation on a WiF counter. Some MIL are better than some INF in the pools so they aren't simply replacements or reserves, although they are those things also.

The Croatian MIL write-up is good but I think the fact that it committed numerous war-crimes should be a little bit more explicit. "Persecution" and "concentration camps" dance around the truth a little. Yugoslavia degenerated into terrible civil war during WWII, it wasn't just noble partisans battling the bad-guy Germans.

ORIGINAL: trees trees
The Croatian MIL write-up is good but I think the fact that it committed numerous war-crimes should be a little bit more explicit. "Persecution" and "concentration camps" dance around the truth a little. Yugoslavia degenerated into terrible civil war during WWII, it wasn't just noble partisans battling the bad-guy Germans.

It is not the issue I cannot find plenty of stuff about the terrible side of the war but the question is wether or not we should delve into that. I will leave that to Steve to decide but my initial thought is to leave it be, and just mention it briefly.

That would be a good call for the editor, yes. It is a little-known fact that the Croatian Fascists killed estimates of 500,000 civilians during the war. They were so brutal some Italian commanders ignored orders to work with them and German officers in the field complained to higher-ups about them. Once people learn that there was a Croatian puppet-state that contributed arms to the Axis cause, I think a little bit more should be revealed. This does begin to open a historical Pandora's Box a little. In WiF this unit is usually just left in Yugoslavia to help garrison the place, but there was a lot more to the story than that.

ORIGINAL: trees trees

That would be a good call for the editor, yes. It is a little-known fact that the Croatian Fascists killed estimates of 500,000 civilians during the war. They were so brutal some Italian commanders ignored orders to work with them and German officers in the field complained to higher-ups about them. Once people learn that there was a Croatian puppet-state that contributed arms to the Axis cause, I think a little bit more should be revealed. This does begin to open a historical Pandora's Box a little. In WiF this unit is usually just left in Yugoslavia to help garrison the place, but there was a lot more to the story than that.

I see the role of the unit writeups to be: (1) personalize the units so they are not anonymous 4-4s, (2) stimulate the player to read more about the history of WWII.

I think Capitan has gotten it right for the Croatian unit. There is enough information to let the reader glimpse that there is more to the story. Yet it is not heavy handed.

This subject came up before and my opinion hasn't changed: touch lightly on the atrocities; it is not the goal of MWIF to lecture, but instead to entertain.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

My only request would be to explain what the abbreviation RSI stand for.

Link to: La Repubblica Sociale Italiana (RSI or The Italian Social Republic) The post-1943 Italian Fascist forces of WWII

[2134] [Army of Peru]
.T Peru was one of the countries in the world that was least affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy. There was however conflicts on the rise with Ecuador over disputed territories in the Amazon. A conflict that escalated from a dispute to outright war in 1941.
.P The Peruvian Army was prepared for war and over 13.000 men crossed the border rapidly and caught the Ecuadorians by surprise. They were well equipped with tanks and artillery.
.P When the conflict ended in February 1942 a handful of Peruvian lives had been lost but huge tracts of land near the Amazon had been gained.
.P The Peruvian pilot, José Quiñones, was declared a war hero for an extraordinary feat done against the enemy. He was shot down over Ecuadorian territory but instead of trying to land his aircraft (NA-50) he directed the plane towards the anti-aircraft gun that shot him down. This has been disputed afterwards though, since Ecuador did not have any functioning anti-aircraft guns at the time.
.P Noteworthy is that this conflict marks the first use of paratroopers on the South American continent.

-------

Everyone loves to have a hero! [:D]

ORIGINAL: trees trees

That is an excellent write-up! There is a nice "Italy in WWII" website out there somewhere with it's own forum that may be helpful for Italian units. This would be a good example of a spot where you may wish to mention that the WiF counter represents a division that you as The Duce _can_ build but that historically it never was deployed in divisional strength, to help keep the scale of WiF in perspective.

Thanks! Appreciate the comments. Just glad to be able to make a contribution.
I'll amend with the RSI definition.
http://www.comandosupremo.com/ is a fantastic source which I heartily recommend for anyone with an interest in the Italians. There is a fair amount of other stuff out there but you have to pick carefully to find an Italian perspectives.

Jimm

ORIGINAL: capitan

[2134] [Army of Peru]
.T Peru was one of the countries in the world that was least affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy. There was however conflicts on the rise with Ecuador over disputed territories in the Amazon. A conflict that escalated from a dispute to outright war in 1941.

perhaps...
Peru was not greatly affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy, however there were disputes with Ecuador over certain territories in the Amazon.

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: capitan
[2134] [Army of Peru]
.T Peru was one of the countries in the world that was least affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy. There was however conflicts on the rise with Ecuador over disputed territories in the Amazon. A conflict that escalated from a dispute to outright war in 1941.

perhaps...
Peru was not greatly affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy, however there were disputes with Ecuador over certain territories in the Amazon.

[:D][:D][:D]

I laugh because I edited over 1200 writeups by Greyshaft and I made the following change countless times.

Peru was not greatly affected by the great depression in the 30´s and the civil society was vivid and relatively healthy. However, there were disputes with Ecuador over certain territories in the Amazon.

To complete this, I propose:
Eventually those disputes escalated into outright war in 1941.

3 new write-ups submitted by Jimm and Wosung! Good job guys.

I have changed the Peruvian write-up to what Steve wrote.

13% done in total! (see page 2 for details. I update the list there as soon as someone submits a write-up)

If anyone wants to volonteer for the UK, France or Russia that would be most welcome!

ORIGINAL: capitan
3 new write-ups submitted by Jimm and Wosung! Good job guys.

I have changed the Peruvian write-up to what Steve wrote.

13% done in total! (see page 2 for details. I update the list there as soon as someone submits a write-up)

If anyone wants to volonteer for the UK, France or Russia that would be most welcome!

AOI is Italian - a composite unit for Italian East Africa.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

[:D][:D][:D]

I laugh because I edited over 1200 writeups by Greyshaft and I made the following change countless times.

Yep... we all benefit by having another set of eyes revise what we write [:)]

my 'trees trees' login cookie went off to the great bit-bucket in the sky somehow. anyway on the Croatian write-up I agree with Steve that MWiF isn't the place to get in to the morals of WWII. I only brought it up because that puppet-state was possibly the worst of the worst on the Axis side. I just think the two phrases 'persecution' and 'concentration camp' touch too lightly on the truth here, like the Ustache were just a bunch of bad cops working for the Germans or something. A half a million civillians killed is one heck of a lot of evil. I think a a phrase like 'this unit is blamed for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of unarmed people' would still touch lightly on it with a bit of a more clear perspective.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I just think the two phrases 'persecution' and 'concentration camp' touch too lightly on the truth here, like the Ustache were just a bunch of bad cops working for the Germans or something.

Do you know Christopher Browning's "Ordinary men" [Ganz normale Männer]?

It's a book about a German police batallion (non military type) from Hamburg, whos members were murdering civilians behind the front in Russia.

Somtimes these figures were that: just a bunch of bad cops.


But I don't wanna fire a big discussion about atrocities in WW2, nor offend any policemen. The latter you could substitute by fire fighters, or who else...

Regards

ORIGINAL: brian brian

my 'trees trees' login cookie went off to the great bit-bucket in the sky somehow. anyway on the Croatian write-up I agree with Steve that MWiF isn't the place to get in to the morals of WWII. I only brought it up because that puppet-state was possibly the worst of the worst on the Axis side. I just think the two phrases 'persecution' and 'concentration camp' touch too lightly on the truth here, like the Ustache were just a bunch of bad cops working for the Germans or something. A half a million civillians killed is one heck of a lot of evil. I think a a phrase like 'this unit is blamed for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of unarmed people' would still touch lightly on it with a bit of a more clear perspective.

Please let's leave this topic alone.

WIF has absolutely nothing about civilians or POWs in the game.

no problem Steve, it was nasty all over. I took a grad level course in the history of WWII in the Balkans and it was really an eye-opener.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

no problem Steve, it was nasty all over. I took a grad level course in the history of WWII in the Balkans and it was really an eye-opener.

As you mentioned earlier, it is a Pandoras box, if we mention this why should we not mention Babi Yar, the Allied Bombings of Dresden or Japanese treatment of POWs?. Anyway I am glad we can all agree.

13% of the write-ups done! Italy is coming along very nicely and so is China. My Germans have been on a hold while I have done some neutral countries. The División Azul was interesting to do to say the least.

Need help on the BULGARIAN army writeups
 
Unfortunately it seems that the actual armies deployed by the bulgarians dont match with the pieces in MWIF. This goes for both the naming and the number of Corps. My guess is that the MWIF pieces for the Bulgarian I and II Corps are the Bulgarian 5th army and the 1. occupation corps. See link
http://www.vojska.net/eng/world-war-2/bulgaria/organization/1943/ for example. Also it seems that the Bulgarians actually did more fighting against the germans towards the end of the war than for the germans http://members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-bul.html. My concerne is this will be confusing to add in a game where the specific piece is an axis piece. (The same concern is valid for the Sofia Mil) 
 
I the absence of naming consistency i have decided to do a more generic description for the 2 Bulgarian infantry corps units instead of specifics for a given unit.
 
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]The Bulgarian Army (Infantry Corps I and II)[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]There were strong pro-German tendencies in Bulgarian foreign policy at the start of the second world war. The driving force was the desire to regain the lands lost by Bulgaria, after the First World War.[/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]On march 1. 1941 Bulgaria acceded to the Axis Tri-Partite Treaty. At this time the mobilized Bulgarian armed landforces consisted of 16 infantry divisions, two cavalry divisions, one motorized brigade as well as special and service units.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]In April of 1941 Bulgaria was awarded Aegean and Vardarian Thrace and the entire Jugoslav Macedonia, as well as  and extreme south-eastern section of Serbia. Bulgaria also co-participated in the occupation of the remainder of Serbia (until September of 1944).[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]The Bulgarian government refused, despite heavy axis pressure, to commit its troops against the Soviet Union.  Bulgaria even, as the only axis country, allowed a Soviet embassy to operate for the entire duration of the conflict,[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Bulgaria declared war on the UK and the United states on December 13. 1941. [/font]
 
 
Let me hear what you think. Is this fine or can someone help me differentiate the units??
 
Regards
David