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thanks for the reply.....any comment on the bombs being measured in pounds instead of kilograms...or is that accurate?

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: ctangus

I like it a lot - particularly the airfield size reduction (like you intended). A few comments/thoughts/errata:

1. There's not a single AF in the Marshalls that can be expanded to size 4. I can't say I know a lot about the geography there, but for game balance I think at least one base should be able to expand that high - maybe Kwaj. Otherwise I can see the allies easily taking the Marshalls in early '42. Also for game balance - I'd like to see at least one AF in the Kuriles with an SPS of at least 1.

I think I will give Kwajalein an SPS of 1. In reality the japanese could likely have supported torpedo ops for there levelbombers from this base. The Kuriles however...

2. I like having a Pete Float Fighter, but I'd also like to have the option to convert it back to a Pete Float Plane. (If a slot is available.) Or define it to upgrade to either Jakes or Alfs.

I would be willing to allow it to upgrade to the Jake.

3. China's even more a complete dog's breakfast. I like it! [:)]

Thanks.

4. With only one "Chinese Warlord" in the static Chinese formations, you can divide the static Chinese units and make 2/3 of them mobile. Most players probably wouldn't do that, but with 3-4 "Warlord" units (like in CHS 2.x) even the divided units would be immobile.

An oversite on my part I think I will opt for 2 warlords...

With all that said, this looks like a great mod. Time permitting, I hope to start a game with this scenario soon.

Thanks for the feedback and I will be sure to update the scenario with your suggestions in the next couple of days..

Most of the Marshall Island air bases were developed to the point where they could operate G3Ms and G4Ms during the war. Remember the purpose of those aircraft was to attrition the USN as it advanced across the central Pacific. The problem with G3M/G4M operations in the SRA during early 1942 was the lack of infrastructure, which is just what the base ratings mean. However, the game designers often confused base size with base development. I think the CHS values for bases held by Japan at the beginning of the war are fairly solid--it's the values on the Allied side that are often inflated (originally in Stock) to help the AI. So the Marshall Islands fields would be 3/1 or 4/1 to express the fact that they were developed enough for LBA operations, but occupied most of the island they were on and could not be developed further. Use a SPS of 0 to represent an air base site that needed fill, and 1 for your bog standard atoll site. A SPS of 5 is probably good for an isolated flat site in Northern Australia--anything more needs a local urban population. A SPS of 0 for a naval base is again something that needs an artificial harbour, and so on, with values of 6+ implying the presence of a local urban population.

ORIGINAL: herwin

Most of the Marshall Island air bases were developed to the point where they could operate G3Ms and G4Ms during the war. Remember the purpose of those aircraft was to attrition the USN as it advanced across the central Pacific. The problem with G3M/G4M operations in the SRA during early 1942 was the lack of infrastructure, which is just what the base ratings mean. However, the game designers often confused base size with base development. I think the CHS values for bases held by Japan at the beginning of the war are fairly solid--it's the values on the Allied side that are often inflated (originally in Stock) to help the AI. So the Marshall Islands fields would be 3/1 or 4/1 to express the fact that they were developed enough for LBA operations, but occupied most of the island they were on and could not be developed further. Use a SPS of 0 to represent an air base site that needed fill, and 1 for your bog standard atoll site. A SPS of 5 is probably good for an isolated flat site in Northern Australia--anything more needs a local urban population. A SPS of 0 for a naval base is again something that needs an artificial harbour, and so on, with values of 6+ implying the presence of a local urban population.

You are missing the point of the the airbase mod...You don't need a level 4 airbase for LBA operations...you need a level 2. The bigger airbases just enable you to operate aircraft without penalty. By reducing the SPS size of mostt of the airbases I've limited the Max size that a base can be expanded to and made it much more costly to expand bases to large size. One other positive side effect of being forced to operate the bombers from smaller bases, will be an increase in the amount of ops losses suffered by both sides.

In regards to the Marshalls the only base that I've read that may have been capable of sustaining torpedo operations by the G#M's would have been Kwajalein and even then the information to support that is sketchy at best.

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

thanks for the reply.....any comment on the bombs being measured in pounds instead of kilograms...or is that accurate?

CaS listes the G4M1 as :
2 500lb
4 250 lb
16 50 kg
1 Type 91 Torpedo

whereas the G3M1 is listed as

12 60kg
2 250kg
1 500 kg
1 Type 91
1 800 kg

I opted just to include the 60kg and 250kg bombs for the G3M's (maybe I should throw in the others as welll???)

In checking further the G4M's listing in CaS is likely a typo.

Random thought train follows (designer at work) - However since there are no kg rated GP bombs in the WitP database the 500lb GP could be considered to represent the 250Kg No.25 Mod 2 GP bomb or the 250kg Type 99 No.25 Semi-AP. And the 250 lb bombs...well...they will need to be changed...Ummm the bomb load for the G4Ms should probably be -I'm thinking they should be rated as - 2 500kg Type 2 No 50s Semi-AP and 4 500lbs GP bombs which would represent as previously mentioned. Problem with the 500kg Ap bombs is the load cost is 1102 and would require a 2204 load Cap. However the G4M (and G3M) were rated as 1764 so they would only load the torpedo ...if they are rated at 2205 (which is how much weight in bombs they could carry) the torpedo would eat 1764 leaving a load cap of 441 which could be used to load the 60 kg bombs which only have a load cost of 132. Perhap eliminating the 60 kg bombs is a possibility even though they did carry them...or assign the 60 kg bombs to the extended range mission...

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: herwin

Most of the Marshall Island air bases were developed to the point where they could operate G3Ms and G4Ms during the war. Remember the purpose of those aircraft was to attrition the USN as it advanced across the central Pacific. The problem with G3M/G4M operations in the SRA during early 1942 was the lack of infrastructure, which is just what the base ratings mean. However, the game designers often confused base size with base development. I think the CHS values for bases held by Japan at the beginning of the war are fairly solid--it's the values on the Allied side that are often inflated (originally in Stock) to help the AI. So the Marshall Islands fields would be 3/1 or 4/1 to express the fact that they were developed enough for LBA operations, but occupied most of the island they were on and could not be developed further. Use a SPS of 0 to represent an air base site that needed fill, and 1 for your bog standard atoll site. A SPS of 5 is probably good for an isolated flat site in Northern Australia--anything more needs a local urban population. A SPS of 0 for a naval base is again something that needs an artificial harbour, and so on, with values of 6+ implying the presence of a local urban population.

You are missing the point of the the airbase mod...You don't need a level 4 airbase for LBA operations...you need a level 2. The bigger airbases just enable you to operate aircraft without penalty. By reducing the SPS size of mostt of the airbases I've limited the Max size that a base can be expanded to and made it much more costly to expand bases to large size. One other positive side effect of being forced to operate the bombers from smaller bases, will be an increase in the amount of ops losses suffered by both sides.

In regards to the Marshalls the only base that I've read that may have been capable of sustaining torpedo operations by the G#M's would have been Kwajalein and even then the information to support that is sketchy at best.

Check this Google search: <http://www.google.com/search?q=marshall islands (G4M%7CG3M)>

ORIGINAL: herwin



Check this Google search: <http://www.google.com/search?q=marshall islands (G4M%7CG3M)>

Yes i understand G3ms and G4Ms were stationed in the Marshalls, but where does it say that the G4M's and/or G3Ms operated with torpedoes out of the Marshalls? Kwajalein had some extensive facilities but their is no mention of a torpedo assembly facility - unlike the info I found on Truk which did have one. You can still operate G#M's from level 2 and 3 bases they just won't carry torpedos.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: herwin



Check this Google search: <http://www.google.com/search?q=marshall islands (G4M%7CG3M)>

Yes i understand G3ms and G4Ms were stationed in the Marshalls, but where does it say that the G4M's and/or G3Ms operated with torpedoes out of the Marshalls? Kwajalein had some extensive facilities but their is no mention of a torpedo assembly facility - unlike the info I found on Truk which did have one. You can still operate G#M's from level 2 and 3 bases they just won't carry torpedos.

The Lexington II took an airborne torpedo near Kwajalein at the end of 1943, and the 1942 carrier raids on the Marshalls were attacked, although not hit. Kwaj definitely had shops, and there are indications that there may have been shops at Mili, Majuro, Eniwetok, and Wotje. The primary mission of the G3M/G4M was torpedo attack on the US fleet from bases in the mandates.

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: herwin



Check this Google search: <http://www.google.com/search?q=marshall islands (G4M%7CG3M)>

Yes i understand G3ms and G4Ms were stationed in the Marshalls, but where does it say that the G4M's and/or G3Ms operated with torpedoes out of the Marshalls? Kwajalein had some extensive facilities but their is no mention of a torpedo assembly facility - unlike the info I found on Truk which did have one. You can still operate G#M's from level 2 and 3 bases they just won't carry torpedos.

The Lexington II took an airborne torpedo near Kwajalein at the end of 1943, and the 1942 carrier raids on the Marshalls were attacked, although not hit. Kwaj definitely had shops, and there are indications that there may have been shops at Mili, Majuro, Eniwetok, and Wotje. The primary mission of the G3M/G4M was torpedo attack on the US fleet from bases in the mandates.

Kwajalien will be rated a 4/1 when I complete the update...

Wow!

Giving your "version" a lookover.

Chinese BF's with AV's at 5000?!!!
Can't wait for those guys to retreat and free up the static devices.[;)]
Or be killed and regrown at Chungking.[;)]

Chinese Corps with TO&E's of over 500 AV?
Holy cow!

With this Chinese Army structure I could take all of Asia![:D]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Wow!

Giving your "version" a lookover.

Chinese BF's with AV's at 5000?!!!
Can't wait for those guys to retreat and free up the static devices.[;)]
Or be killed and regrown at Chungking.[;)]

Yep those base forces are in real useful locations for the japanese to ever want to attack them and retreat them...

Chinese Corps with TO&E's of over 500 AV?
Holy cow!

Yep and those 535 squads are supported by 273 support so i doubt you'll ever see 535 AV...

With this Chinese Army structure I could take all of Asia![:D]

Maybe...

If I can find the time the update will be completed this weekend ...

For Halsey's benefit...

If you would check a little closer you will also realize some other subtle differences between the Chinese in this version and the Chinese in 2.08...

- In 2.08 Chinese Inf corps had 24 Engineers...in my version 3-Div Corps have 8 and 2-Div Corps have 5

- In 2.08 Chinese Inf Corps had 382 Rifle Squads and 341 support...in my version 3 Div Corps have 535 Rifle squads and 273 support, 2-Div Corps have 356 Rifle Squads and 182 support

-In 2.08 17 of the 82 corps are static....in my version 12 of the 30 3-Div corps are static and 18 of 29 2-Div corps are static... or 30 of the 59 corps are static...

-In 2.08 once the Chinese Guerilla Corps are eliminated they return to Chungking and the line is no long fluid...In my version 15,000AV of the 20,000 you complain about are locked into three static base forces that are not located on any transportation network but are behind the lines. For them to become mobile the Japanese player will have to eliminate 20 devices that cause the unit to be static. Otherwise the Japanese player can ignore them because they cannot move...

-In 2.08 in repsonse to complaints that players could bomb Chinese supply away most of the Chinese supply was provided by direct daily supply allocations which could not be bombed or stopped...in my version i have shifted the supply back towards resource generated supply which can be bombed by the japanese player...

Version 1.01 of Treespiders' CHS has been sent to Andrew Brown's site and Spooky's for posting...
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
Changes from v1.00 include:
1. Adjustment of speed for the P-40E and P-39D
2. Reset to original load for the G3M and G4M1
3. Reset Kwajalein to AF size 4(2) and Maleolop to 3(1)
4. Inclusion of a Floatplane version of the Pete which upgrades to Float Fighter version, likewise
set Float Fighter version to upgrade to Floatplane version (hopefully this won't cause too bad of a problem although I could see the AI flipping back and forth).
5. Increased Chinese warlords in the static units, from 1 to 3.
6. Renamed Japanese air units...
other minor tweaks...

Whilst mucking about in CHS 2.08 making the changes I wanted for Treespider's CHS I noted an apparent increase in the size of Japanese airunits at start....namely the nell and Betty units...

for example G1/Genzan and G2/Genzan Daitai each start with 27 G3M's giving the Genzan airgroup 54 G3M's According to "Bloody Shambles" and Francillion&nbsp;the Genzan Kokutai started with 36 G3M's. So for Treespiders CHS I changed one of the Daitai to a nine plane chutai.

Other groups are affected as well....

In my late night rush to complete the 1.01 update I forgot to include the Ki-43-Ic. It is the Oscar armed with two 12.7mm guns before the Ki-43-II series... I have opted to take out the G5N Liz and replace it it with the Ki-43-Ic with an availability date of 2/42 with the Ki-43-Ib upgrading to it.
&nbsp;
In addition thanks to Spence I have corrected the error he found in CHS with the B5N2 and the forward firing 7.7mm.
&nbsp;
So I guess v1.02 &nbsp;will be released shortly...Any other requested corrections?

Some upcoming changes - based on suggestions from the community -

-I've taken out the F8F and F6F and replaced with the F6F-5 and the F6F-3. I set the available date on the F6F-3 to 4/43 - the Essex with VF-9 arrives in 5/43 and VF9 was first to receive F6F-3 as near as I can tell. I set the F6F-5 to arrive 4/44. I set the build rates as follows:

-F6F-3 =R&D  Factory in US set to 270. When F6F-3 arrives 4/43 (possibly earlier) production will provide 270 x (9+3) = 3240 F6F-3's through March of 44 then it upgrades to the F6F-5 in April. In addition a Build rate of 30 times (9+12+8) or 30x29 will provide an additional 870 F6F-3's through the August of 45. Units arriving after 3/44 will be F6F-5. Total F6F-3 production = 3240 + 870 + 242(Hellcat II) = 4352

-F6F-5 = Build rate of 80 x (9+8) or 80 x 17= 1360 F6F-5's through August 45 from the build rate plus an additional 270 x 17 = 4590 from the upgraded F6F-3 factory...assuming it upgrades. Total F6F-5 = 1360 + 4590 + 1260 (F6F-5n) + 849 (Hellcat II) = 8059 Close enough for govt. work...

-F6F-5N's = 60 x (1+12+8) or 60 x 21 = 1260 F6F-5N's

-Hellcat II = 45 x (6+12+8) or 45 x 26 = 1170 Hellcat II's (IRL 242 F6F-3 and 849 F6F-5)

-Moved SB2U from carrrier capabale slot.

-Added Corsair I/II into slot vacated by SB2U

-Increased P-40E build rate to 50 from 40....decreased Kittyhawk I build rate from 40 to 30.

-Decreased A-24 build rate to 4

-In the spirit of the chinese guerillas being "para" capabale - I have made the chindits paracapable to simulate deep raid capability

-Started S-Boats with 11 sys damaged

-Tweaked ground based AA values...

ORIGINAL: treespider

Some upcoming changes - based on suggestions from the community -

-I've taken out the F8F and F6F and replaced with the F6F-5 and the F6F-3. I set the available date on the F6F-3 to 4/43 - the Essex with VF-9 arrives in 5/43 and VF9 was first to receive F6F-3 as near as I can tell. I set the F6F-5 to arrive 4/44. I set the build rates as follows:

-F6F-3 =R&D  Factory in US set to 270. When F6F-3 arrives 4/43 (possibly earlier) production will provide 270 x (9+3) = 3240 F6F-3's through March of 44 then it upgrades to the F6F-5 in April. In addition a Build rate of 30 times (9+12+8) or 30x29 will provide an additional 870 F6F-3's through the August of 45. Units arriving after 3/44 will be F6F-5. Total F6F-3 production = 3240 + 870 + 242(Hellcat II) = 4352

-F6F-5 = Build rate of 80 x (9+8) or 80 x 17= 1360 F6F-5's through August 45 from the build rate plus an additional 270 x 17 = 4590 from the upgraded F6F-3 factory...assuming it upgrades. Total F6F-5 = 1360 + 4590 + 1260 (F6F-5n) + 849 (Hellcat II) = 8059 Close enough for govt. work...

-F6F-5N's = 60 x (1+12+8) or 60 x 21 = 1260 F6F-5N's

-Hellcat II = 45 x (6+12+8) or 45 x 26 = 1170 Hellcat II's (IRL 242 F6F-3 and 849 F6F-5)

-Moved SB2U from carrrier capabale slot.

-Added Corsair I/II into slot vacated by SB2U

-Increased P-40E build rate to 50 from 40....decreased Kittyhawk I build rate from 40 to 30.

-Decreased A-24 build rate to 4

-In the spirit of the chinese guerillas being "para" capabale - I have made the chindits paracapable to simulate deep raid capability

-Started S-Boats with 11 sys damaged

-Tweaked ground based AA values...

Also to be included are JWE's ship and class data changes and artwork which will likely be included in the official AB CHS 3.0. Thanks JWE....awesome work!

Update ctangus approached me about playing so afaik the first official playing of this scenario is about to commence...I'll post the latest changes to spooky an AB soon...they are extensive as it involves JWE's artwork and ship data...

I'll be giving it a try, unofficially of course. [:)]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Update ctangus approached me about playing so afaik the first official playing of this scenario is about to commence...I'll post the latest changes to spooky an AB soon...they are extensive as it involves JWE's artwork and ship data...

Watching with baited breath.