Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
So we come full circle back to the root of your envy of, and despise for, us........the simple fact that the rest of the world desperately needs us to be it's police force while it envies and despises us because we CAN be. [:-]

I don't want to interfere with your little argument but here I have to disagree. [:-]

The solely reason we depended on you was due to the outcome of WW2 and the fact that Germany didn't get allowed to rebuild her military forces. Without these restriction we wouldn't need someone to guarantee our safety, neither did Germany - or Prussia before - for the past 200 years.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
So we come full circle back to the root of your envy of, and despise for, us........the simple fact that the rest of the world desperately needs us to be it's police force while it envies and despises us because we CAN be. [:-]

I don't want to interfere with your little argument but here I have to disagree. [:-]

The solely reason we depended on you was due to the outcome of WW2 and the fact that Germany didn't get allowed to rebuild her military forces. Without these restriction we wouldn't need someone to guarantee our safety, neither did Germany - or Prussia before - for the past 200 years.

Well, you lost two of the last 3 wars you fought and, well... aren't the folks in Prussia speaking Polish these days? No offense, of course.[:)]

ORIGINAL: Splinterhead

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
So we come full circle back to the root of your envy of, and despise for, us........the simple fact that the rest of the world desperately needs us to be it's police force while it envies and despises us because we CAN be. [:-]

I don't want to interfere with your little argument but here I have to disagree. [:-]

The solely reason we depended on you was due to the outcome of WW2 and the fact that Germany didn't get allowed to rebuild her military forces. Without these restriction we wouldn't need someone to guarantee our safety, neither did Germany - or Prussia before - for the past 200 years.

Well, you lost two of the last 3 wars you fought and, well... aren't the folks in Prussia speaking Polish these days? No offense, of course.[:)]

The Germans are excellent at war, they just usually assume it's over before it actually is.

I have German friends and when they found out how much I enjoy military history, they wondered what I thought of Germans. I told them, "Well...if you're going to have a massive, industrialised, mechanised, mid 20th Century global war, you need some bad guys. And you were the best bad guys ever! Brilliant early but with a fatal flaw that let us back in to it. Great stuff. Much the same goes for the Japanese and the Italians provided light relief and plenty of exotic, sun drenched, Mediterranean battlefields. You almost couldn't have scripted it better" [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Splinterhead
Well, you lost two of the last 3 wars you fought and, well... aren't the folks in Prussia speaking Polish these days? No offense, of course.[:)]

True, but I wonder how other countries had performed by fighting all major powers. [;)]

btw. Brandenburg is considered as part of Prussia also.

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: Ike99

As far as "impervious to criticism" much of what I see on this thread reads as insult, not constructive criticism (e.g., the cartoon implying US troops are viscious murderers when the cameras are off, or the statement that only fear of the USSR caused us to rebuild Europe). As such, it tends to make patriotic Americans angry and makes us unwilling to listen to what you have to say (as my countrymen sometimes regrettably demostrate).

As if ¨Patriotic Americans¨ care what the rest of the world says, thinks or feels anyways? I don´t think so.

However, I would like to point out that you are the one who brought up forcibly remaking the world in our image. As you can see from my post, I merely advocated reducing the flaws of the US in order to make us a nation that can provide an example that others will desire to voluntarily emulate.

I have to echo SireChaos.

This is what you say at a personal level. But with 702 overseas military bases in 130 countries as of 2003, more now, a defense budget larger than the rest of the world combined, obviously some other people don´t. Not to mention the fleets.

Don´t be so naive. The cold war ended a long time ago. All this has very little to do with defending USA and a lot to do with expanding USA global dominance at every level with the ¨voluntarily¨ part being optional.

Granted its Wiki, but they only list about 30 bases in 16 countries. Can you give me any ideas where the other 670 bases are located?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... s#Overseas

Hello...? Reading comprehension, anyone? Those are the USAF bases. What about the other branches?

Granted, that list doesn´t add up to 700+, but 30 is a serious misrepresentation as well.

@Terminus:
Fair enough. Not particularly flattering, but probably an accurate characterization.

I realize my early posts in this thread were overly... provocative - or at least could be read as such without a large dose of benefit of doubt. I hope, though, that I have made it clear what I actually think.

@Mike Dubost:
What the HELL are you saying there? Don´t you know that you have a stereotype of an insular, ignorant, arrogant American to be true to? [&:]
Seriously, though... thanks for that reply. I am well aware that most Americans are not at all like the [expletive deleted]s that steal so much screen time - though it would help if you guys spoke up a little more often.

@Lützow:
I don´t think we could have done it alone. How much of an army would we have needed to beat off the entire Warsaw Pact on our own? The Bundeswehr at the end of the Cold War was about 320,000 men or so - against how many million Pact troops? I mean, even the Bundeswehr itself considered its own forces badly inadequate for the task - the joke I´ve heard from soldiers was that the Bundeswehr´s task was to slow down the enemy until the real soldiers arrived.

@Splinterhead:
Actually, the folks in Prussia still speak German - they are just not doing it in (East) Prussia any more. [;)]

@Neilster:
So, "Made in Germany" is still a sign of first-rate quality, eh?[8D]

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
@Lützow:
I don´t think we could have done it alone. How much of an army would we have needed to beat off the entire Warsaw Pact on our own? The Bundeswehr at the end of the Cold War was about 320,000 men or so - against how many million Pact troops? I mean, even the Bundeswehr itself considered its own forces badly inadequate for the task - the joke I´ve heard from soldiers was that the Bundeswehr´s task was to slow down the enemy until the real soldiers arrived.

If I recall right, manpower of the Bundeswehr was around 500k soldiers prior to reunification. However, we didn't need to beat the Sovjets, which were predominant in conventional forces anyway, but rather stop them from further advance toward the West and this again could have been achieved through nuclear armament. To paraphrase it: with German missiles targeting Moscow the presence of american forces would have been obsolete.

I didn't realize that the Argentines hated us so much!!!

Not agreeing with USA foreign policy means you hate USA?

[8|]

That´s interesting.

Your concerns are well founded SireChaos.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
@Lützow:
I don´t think we could have done it alone. How much of an army would we have needed to beat off the entire Warsaw Pact on our own? The Bundeswehr at the end of the Cold War was about 320,000 men or so - against how many million Pact troops? I mean, even the Bundeswehr itself considered its own forces badly inadequate for the task - the joke I´ve heard from soldiers was that the Bundeswehr´s task was to slow down the enemy until the real soldiers arrived.

If I recall right, manpower of the Bundeswehr was around 500k soldiers prior to reunification. However, we didn't need to beat the Sovjets, which were predominant in conventional forces anyway, but rather stop them from further advance toward the West and this again could have been achieved through nuclear armament. To paraphrase it: with German missiles targeting Moscow the presence of american forces would have been obsolete.

Nuclear weapons for Germany? No thanks! Not to mention, after the Nazi regime, which person within yelling distance of sanity would have trusted the Germans to have nuclear weapons?

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
Nuclear weapons for Germany? No thanks! Not to mention, after the Nazi regime, which person within yelling distance of sanity would have trusted the Germans to have nuclear weapons?

Care to elaborate why it was better to have nuclear missiles based under control of foreign powers and no possibility to interfere if they had decide to wage another war ? The main battlefield for WW3 would have been Germany.


Mistrust of themselves is, as part of the outcome of WW2, a German disease I fortunately was never affected by.

At least Argentina didn't invade a country under false pretenses. The Falklands was all about conquest, land grabs, and maybe a little raping, looting and pillaging. You got to give them credit for not pretending it was about anything else, like liberating people who wanted no part of the most fascist regime in the Southern hemisphere.

I think JD can support me on this Doggie.

I have heard of no Argentine prisoner soldiers who were abused or mistreated by British soldiers and this comes from talking to and knowing many veterans personal, not from media.

I´ve never heard and know of no stories of British soldier prisoners abused or mistreated by Argentine soldiers from either a British or Argentine source.

No Kelpers were abused or mistreated by Argentine or British soldiers and a single one was killed accidentaly by a British shell.

Now, tell us about your recent war prisoner record. Embarresing pictures are optional.

Maybe you should consider the fact that a member of a dictatorial banana republic which threw thousands of it's own citizens out of aircraft into the South Atlantic and turns soccor stadiums into torture chambers should think twice about criticizing the actions of people from civilized countries.

Maybe you should go discover who supported those dictators (USA) who were throwing people out of airplanes and torture, where most of them were trained, (School of the Americas, Georgia, USA) why, (Fight against communism) and who opposed them.(The vast majority of Argentine people)

I aint got much patience with some Europeans, but at least you can visit Europe without much fear of being grabbed up by the secret police and tortured to death. That's not something you can say about Argentina.

You´re misinformed. Maybe you should visit sometime and see for yourself. I think with your extreme right opinions and arrogance it would be best to avoid political discussion though.

Maybe not. Perhaps what you need to do is go out of the USA and see what effect your far right rhetoric has in the rest of the world in person.

No comment on the rest of what you said for reasons of ¨civility¨

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
Nuclear weapons for Germany? No thanks! Not to mention, after the Nazi regime, which person within yelling distance of sanity would have trusted the Germans to have nuclear weapons?

Care to elaborate why it was better to have nuclear missiles based under control of foreign powers and no possibility to interfere if they had decide to wage another war ? The main battlefield for WW3 would have been Germany.

Nuclear weapons are (or were, during the Cold War) the weapons of great powers. Every time Germany becomes a great power, a disaster Made in Germany happens. ´nuff said.

Besides, US missiles defended us, too, so what did we need our own missiles? There was plenty of potential for doomsday anyway, without adding another set of buttons waiting for a madman to press them.

Mistrust of themselves is, as part of the outcome of WW2, a German disease I fortunately was never affected by.

Not mistrust of myself. Mistrust of such august figures as we care to elect into offices. Survival in the age of Mutually Assured Destruction depends on whoever is the least stable of those leaders possessing nuclear weapons. I would not have wanted Franz Josef "We have a right to no longer hear about Auschwitz" Strauss within arm´s length of The Button, nor any number of other glorious authority figures we have been afflicted with.

Just thought i would say that the Russians fired an ICBM from a Nuclear Sub in the Barents Sea this week.Scary or what?

1. The Argentinian president is hot for a lady her age.
 
2. A train leaves Hartford going toward New York at 12:00 going 45 mph. It is 45 miles to New York City. On the same track, going 45 mph, a train leaves New York City, going to Hartford. What happens at 12:30? In what way does this answer describe this thread?
 
3. I apologize for the above... all of it... also the parts that are mine.
 
4. According to recent research, Argentina has some of the highest per capita carbon emissions in the developing world, higher per capita than larger and more populated Brazil and China and one of the largest in South America. My point being is that one could say something bad about the actions of every nation in the world. Not everyone in the United States agreed (or still agrees) with entering Iraq. Many oppose Gitmo. To label the actions of a government as being representative of the people within the nation is spurious, illogical, worthless, shallow, and short sighted. Frankly, I'm surprised the type of talk above hasn't gotten this thread locked down as being political in nature. This is what the Steakhouse and the R&P Section of Wargamer.net is for. I'm certainly not saying we don't want to see Steakhouse people over here in general chat (howdy Doggie), I'm just saying that the threads are typically different there than here.
 
5. I love Macaron's in Marseille. They are not like Macaroons everywhere else. They are like hamburgers with sweet candy buns and flavored cream "burger." They should be illegal.
 
SoM

Personally, I don't think there's much chance for a WWIII...no one could afford the fuel to launch all those missiles!

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
Nuclear weapons are (or were, during the Cold War) the weapons of great powers. Every time Germany becomes a great power, a disaster Made in Germany happens. ´nuff said.

Guess I have a different view on history then. The european tragedy started at Sarajevo in 1914 and everything worse happened during 20th century can be traced back to this incident - till Kosovo war in late 90'ish. Other major powers were involved as well and pursued their own policies. I could quote Churchill here, but elaborating this would derail this thread.

So let's rather go back and bash somebody else. [:'(]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Personally, I don't think there's much chance for a WWIII...no one could afford the fuel to launch all those missiles!

Well, I assume Iran could. [:D]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm,macaroons!
 
While were onabout english stuff and now food,what about a nice Full English?
 
3 rashers of Bacon(proper bacon,not that US stuff)
2 Sausages,preferrably Cumberland or Lincolnshire.
slice of fried bread(one side fried after spreading with Tomato Sauce)
big dollop of Baked Beanz(Heinz or better still MOD issue Beans)
BIG slice of Black Pudding
2 Fried Eggs
BIG spoon of Devilled Kidneys
 
All wasjed down with a mug of "builders" tea!

I'm surprised the type of talk above hasn't gotten this thread locked down as being political in nature. This is what the Steakhouse and the R&P Section of Wargamer.net is for. I'm certainly not saying we don't want to see Steakhouse people over here in general chat (howdy Doggie), I'm just saying that the threads are typically different there than here.

I agree with you 100%. I don´t even like politics. Unfortunately certain zeolots feel it necessary to throw in ¨fertilizing fields¨ and ¨rebuilding nations¨ at

every,

possible,

opportunity.

[8|]

I learn not to respond. Peace...man. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

I agree with you 100%. I don´t even like politics. Unfortunately certain zeolots feel it necessary to throw in ¨fertilizing fields¨ and ¨rebuilding nations¨ at

every,

possible,

opportunity.

I take every opportunity to remind you filthy apes who live in glass houses shouldn't sling feces. In order to be self rightous, one must first have at least some rightousness on which to base your alleged "outrage".

Yes, certain individuals from wretched third world countries with absolutely deplorable human rights records who serve as sanctuaries for mass murdering war criminals do seem to want to fertilize the playing field with their particularly rancid hypocrisy and excrement.

It does take a unique sort of arrogance to blame the people of a civilized country who are trying to drag your barbaric regime out of the 17th century for the excesses of your own blood thirsty, goose stepping, wanna be storm troopers.

Get back to us when somebody from Argentina accomplishes something besides mass murder, atrocities, and invansions of defenseless islands in the south atlantic.