Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:23 pm**

All right. Enough.

Henderson Field Designs is comprised of part-time volunteers: that’s all of us, every single one of us. None of us works for Matrix, none of us are paid, and every single one of us has a day job that tends to occupy our time. We do this because we want to and because we can.

We are all professionals in our own fields and fully understand what “statement of work’ and ‘deliverables’ means. But because this is not a compensated commercial venture, time to completion is predicated on what can be done, by those persons available.

If you have a serious issue with this, please email me with your compensation plan (please include Dental coverage, I chipped a tooth).

JWE

Posted: **Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:04 pm**

Yup. I am now too on a project that comes through merging 4 applications into 1. If we wanted to have all the functionality in one go - well this could be done in years.
So basically we are merging No.1 with No.2 and when it is done, we will add No.3 apllication. This is how it is done. Just what was I saying. AE devs have to work over A2A combat - then added Naval combat - then added Ground combat (or something similar). And they need to have them working together.

Maybe my english is not good enough to make clear what I mean [8D]

Posted: **Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:15 pm**

ORIGINAL: Barb
Yup. I am now too on a project that comes through merging 4 applications into 1. If we wanted to have all the functionality in one go - well this could be done in years.
So basically we are merging No.1 with No.2 and when it is done, we will add No.3 apllication. This is how it is done. Just what was I saying. AE devs have to work over A2A combat - then added Naval combat - then added Ground combat (or something similar). And they need to have them working together.

Maybe my english is not good enough to make clear what I mean [8D]

Your English is just fine, my friend. Thank you for your understanding and your support.

John

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:27 pm**

ORIGINAL: jmscho

I am responsible for a key piece of software handling eye-wateringly large amounts of money (not in the banking sector). Version 1 went live 2 years ago. Versions 6 and 7 are in production now and are still not bug free. If we had waited until they were 100% to spec, the business would have folded. There is a point when management needs to be able to say enough is enough and release it warts and all.

I suppose that depends on how big a processing error your organization can tolerate. One application I worked on for a long time was somewhat centrally situated in the banking sector - suffice it to say that the app handled about 1,500,000,000,000 euros during the average working day. This application was tested, tested, and tested again by several independent groups until we were sure we didn't have any major bugs left and the odd million or three hundred wouldn't wander off in unintended directions (there were some minor issues - no serious application is ever completely bug free). It helped, of course, that there was a predecessor application that could handle much of the load while we kept on testing. When the core functionality was in trouble-free production, we started expanding the functionality step by step. If you roll out a core app that is maybe 95% fault-free and patch it afterwards while expanding the functionality you are liable to pile bugs on top of bugs.

Although I am itching to get my hands on AE I leave that final decision to them But if we all want it bug free it will never materialise.

By and large I agree with you. But if 2by3 had caught the leader and sync bugs before they started selling WitP, subsequent patches would have been a lot easier to do. Don't get me wrong - I'm not criticizing the decision to publish WitP 1.0 in the state it was in - real-time applications (and WitP is essentially one) are the very devil to debug - there are too many variables influencing the flow of the code, and I doubt that any company in the games business could afford the battery of code testers and automated test rigs companies like Microsoft, IBM, or SAP employ to debug their software (there's also the time factor). But if WitP hadn't had those cracks in its foundation I guess there would be a lot fewer desks with tooth marks around in the WitP community.

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:41 pm**

ORIGINAL: mikemike

ORIGINAL: jmscho

I am responsible for a key piece of software handling eye-wateringly large amounts of money (not in the banking sector). Version 1 went live 2 years ago. Versions 6 and 7 are in production now and are still not bug free. If we had waited until they were 100% to spec, the business would have folded. There is a point when management needs to be able to say enough is enough and release it warts and all.

I suppose that depends on how big a processing error your organization can tolerate. One application I worked on for a long time was somewhat centrally situated in the banking sector - suffice it to say that the app handled about 1,500,000,000,000 euros during the average working day. This application was tested, tested, and tested again by several independent groups until we were sure we didn't have any major bugs left and the odd million or three hundred wouldn't wander off in unintended directions (there were some minor issues - no serious application is ever completely bug free). It helped, of course, that there was a predecessor application that could handle much of the load while we kept on testing. When the core functionality was in trouble-free production, we started expanding the functionality step by step. If you roll out a core app that is maybe 95% fault-free and patch it afterwards while expanding the functionality you are liable to pile bugs on top of bugs.

Although I am itching to get my hands on AE I leave that final decision to them But if we all want it bug free it will never materialise.

By and large I agree with you. But if 2by3 had caught the leader and sync bugs before they started selling WitP, subsequent patches would have been a lot easier to do. Don't get me wrong - I'm not criticizing the decision to publish WitP 1.0 in the state it was in - real-time applications (and WitP is essentially one) are the very devil to debug - there are too many variables influencing the flow of the code, and I doubt that any company in the games business could afford the battery of code testers and automated test rigs companies like Microsoft, IBM, or SAP employ to debug their software (there's also the time factor). But if WitP hadn't had those cracks in its foundation I guess there would be a lot fewer desks with tooth marks around in the WitP community.

We are also going to have AE tested by a bunch of independent groups - soon as they buy it.

Just a rambling discussion from someone who wrote his first program 45 years ago...

Programmers forget to test what they forget to code.

Testers get in rhythms - they repeatedly test the same thing and repeatedly don't test some other thing.

Features that work independently and in usual combinations will break in unusual circumstances.

If extensive testing by professionals, a large support staff, and feed back from a large user base could result in bug-free software - my windows start menu would not have the little "update" feature.

Good things are comming. There will be problems. People will love and hate AE. Modders will create new mods that entertain - and that create new circumstances that break things.

A little patience, then politeness please. Enjoy.

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:17 pm**

Instead of starting a whole new thread, are there major changes in any ship class when it comes to endurance??

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:20 pm**

What do you mean, exactly?

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:32 am**

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Unfortunately, not everybody is going berserk with a sense of humour. It's almost there, people. REALLY.

Is this the first public admission from T that AE really does exist?!?!?!

Coming from both a former programmer and current technical project manager, give these guys a break. Working on a project this big full time would be hard enough. Trying to fit it around your day job has got to be ... well... I can't use that kind of language. Let's just say hard. Although eager for AE, I say give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure by this stage they are even more anxious to finish than we are to buy it.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:42 am**

That wasnt Termmy. Someone hacked his account and wrote that.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:49 am**

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Instead of starting a whole new thread, are there major changes in any ship class when it comes to endurance??

Probably. The ships weren't redone. The ships were all done totally from scratch - so we don't have any data about what changed - and don't have time to do comparisions right now. But as I'm the one who did the bulk of the Japanese surface combatants I can say that many of the ranges of the heavy cruisers are rather different. I used the data from Lacroix.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:55 am**

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

and don't have time to do comparisions right now.

Who let you out of your cage? Get back in there and CODE!!

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:43 am**

Ya all know, its been finished but  the AE guys simply are too busy playing it as their private play game that they just don't want to
Let it out to us common folk...

Kinda like the Kings of old reserving all the Deer to themselves...

[:D][:'(]

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:30 am**

just a little question, don't want to mess the board with another thread:

- after AE is released, how long does it take the product to ship overseas trough "normal" distributors' network? would it be easier (and faster) for buyers in Europe to get it from the US directly, or just wait a few weeks for AE appearance in local game store? I'm considering another CHS play, but with AE I predict my zeal for CHS to fall rapidly

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:09 am**

I would buy it directly from matrixgames. it is at least as fast and often cheaper

Andy

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:13 am**

IMHO download plus a few bucks more for a CD in a nice package ist the way to go.

You'll get it as fast as your internet connection is and will never have any trouble with lost serials and the like.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:15 am**

thanks guys!

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:17 am**

If available Mistmatz has the right choice. Digital download to get the game the first day with a hardcopy and manual in the mail.

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:48 am**

Digital download to get the game the first day

Youre sure you can do that ? , think the servers will go beserk when this crazy bunch are trying to dowload it[:D]

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:53 am**

The absolute best way to get it will be to order the "Digital + Physical" option on the day of release here. You'll be able to download and play immediately and the hard copy will ship out as soon as possible so that you have a permanent physical copy as well. If speed is the primary concern, no one anywhere will have WITP AE faster than we will.

Regards,

- Erik

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:00 am**

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The absolute best way to get it will be to order the "Digital + Physical" option on the day of release here. You'll be able to download and play immediately and the hard copy will ship out as soon as possible so that you have a permanent physical copy as well. If speed is the primary concern, no one anywhere will have WITP AE faster than we will.

Regards,

- Erik

Hmmmm!!! Official Matrix staff commenting on AE delivery. We must be getting closer that I thought.

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