Matrix Games Forums

June 17-22, 1942

In the last 6 days the Russian campaign has continued to dominate the action. His planes rule the south while mine rule the north. For the 6 day period, the Russians lose 102 planes and the japanese lose 105.

In the maritimes, the japanese capture Sovetskya Gavan and are advancing on Nikolaevsk. It appears that he sailed a transport TF up the river to Komsomolsk. I saw no evidence that my minefield, CD guns, or subs around the river mouth did any damage to him. More evidence that there is something off with the “navigable river” code.

In the central area, I manage to pull most of my forces out of “the swamp” before it is overrun. The japanese have now moved up their monster stack to Birodhizhan and made their first deliberate attack. Good result for me but I imagine he’ll keep attacking and try to grind me down.
Japanese - Base AV: 4858 Adjusted AV: 2291 Losses: 6197
Russians - Base AV: 1171 Adjusted AV: 8002 Losses: 906

Meanwhile, 36th army has been doing it’s own assaults vs. his force blocking the rail north of the city. I’m not quite getting 1:1 odds but am inflicting about 3:1 in losses. I should break thru in the next turn or two. Here’s the last deliberate attack;
Japanese - Base AV: 1067 Adjusted AV: 1243 Losses: 3192
Russians - Base AV: 2331 Adjusted AV: 971 Losses: 691

Lots of activity in the northern area. My bombers pound most of his forces in the area. They occasionally run into some japanese CAP and lose some bombers but nothing horrible. I think he’s flying his fighters out of badly damaged fields as I see he’s losing quite a few zeroes to OPS losses every turn.

The japanese move up a division and recapture Mangan. I recapture Tamsag with a cav brigade. The strong motorcycle brigade (almost 300 AV) has pinned his 1-2 division force in the Yugodzyr. I am moving smaller units around to try to cut him off. I suspect he’ll try to break out or will pull back.

My major effort is in the eastern region along the rail line. I’ve pushed his river guards back a couple hexes and will continue to try to roll his defense back to Heiho. Other mobile units are moving through the forest to threaten his rear and maybe even cut off Hailar. He has a large force in Hailar but as far as I can tell, not a lotta AV. Mostly just support units.

If my opponent moved his airforce north, he could probably regain air superiority but that would mean he’d have to let up his pressure on the main battle around Birodbhizan. I’m gambling he’s gonna keep his airforce in the south.

June 23-26, 1942

Well, he does move a good chunk of his airforce to the north and bombs an empty Borzya airfield on the 23rd and 24th and my “small” airforce at Choybalsan on the next two days. He destroys about 10 recon and fighter planes at Choybalsan. After, he hit Borzya and left it undamaged, I gambled and moved lots of fighters and all my SB-2s to Borzya. With my DB-3s and B-17s they then hit Hailar airfield. I destroyed a handful of planes and damaged the field but failed to knock it out due to bad weather cancelling my attack on the second day of the turn. I have since moved my airforce back to Chita to regroup and look for another opportunity to do some damage. For the 4 day period, the Russians lose 37 planes and the japanese lose 76.

I was really starting to sweat it but I managed to push the japanese blocking force off the rail line to Birobidzhan. I now have about 1,000 AV moving to the city and other forces moving to push his defeated blocking force over the river or to guard the river crossings around the city. It’s not a moment too soon as the japanese have knocked the cities forts from 5 to 2 and getting closer to 1:1 in odds and losses.

In non-russian front news, one of my sentry AKs east of Hawaii is sunk by Mabel carrier torpedo planes. This is the first sign of japanese carriers in several months. Luckily, I have no important convoys in the area. The CV Wasp TF had left Panama 3 days ago but was still no where near Hawaii. It turns around and heads back to Panama. I’m not going to take any chances. I have plenty enough troops in the Pacific to guard my key holdings (Hawaii, Christmas Island, Samoa, Fiji, and Tonga) and have no plans to go on the offensive for several months. I’ll keep my ships in port and my troops on shore until I’m certain the japanese carriers are no where nearby.

June 27-30, 1942

We finish out June with a couple fairly quiet turns. Some highlights from the non-soviet areas:

China: P43 and P66 fighters are now being produced. I will slowly replace I15 and I16 squadrons with these newer planes. Not sure, what I’ll do with them though and when I’ll do it.
A couple thousand AV have started the long walk to the north and the Manchurian border. I hope to grab some border bases and draw off some japanese troops currently concentrated against the soviets.

India/Burma: The Burma corps has begun it’s own long march through the jungles to Bengal. Japanese are pursuing but my Blenheim bombers are flying interdiction missions to slow him down. I should be able to get away leaving Burma to the bad guys.
The British will build up for the next 6 months or so and not do much of anything. Several carriers are due to be withdrawn in the next couple months leaving them with little offensive punch.
About 100 transport planes are flying supplies into China from their base at Ledo.

ANZAC: Supply/fuel convoys continue to deliver goods to the ANZAC forces. They are sailing from Capetown without escorts. Luckily, no sign of japanese convoy raiders of any sort. The Australians are waiting for the Americans before going on the offensive.

South Seas: Steadily building up the Fiji-Samoa-Tonga areas. Some sporadic japanese submarine or surface raider attacks but nothing too damaging. I have about 20-30 single ship transport TFs spread around in the Pacific to give early warning of his carriers. Once they are in place I will try sending another troop convoy into the war zone. No hurry though.
B24D production has begun. They will slowly replace the B17s currently in the soviet far east and Hawaii.

North Pacific: I’ve paid PPs to free up some Canadian troops and planes to send to Alaska and the Aleutians. I’ve also been sending some smallish supply and fuel TFs to the north. My key port is Dutch Harbor and my key airbase is Umnak Island.

In the Soviet Far East, heavy air battles in the north around Hailar. I send in unescorted B17s on the first 2 days and they lose 14 planes to flak, A2A, and ops. I decide to concentrate and close the field on the next turn. My sweeping fighters are badly shot up but clear the way for the bombers who trash the field and destroy over 50 japanese fighters on the ground.
In the south, his bombers hit all my forces around Birobidzhan without any fighter opposition to stop them. I do have a fair amount of AA guns that mostly keep him flying over 10,000 feet. His bombers force my troops into combat mode but aren’t killing a lotta guys.
For the 4 days, the japanese lose 125 planes and the Russians lose 110 planes (and the Americans lose about 15 B17s).
In the ground war, both sides have several monster stacks that are mostly stalemating each other. He continues to deliberate attack at Birobidzhan but my reinforcements should be able to hold a long while. For the 4 days, he loses 13000 troops while I lose 4500 in these battles.
My southern force has moved into the woods hex between Khaborvsk and Bikin. His army there is about the same size. Both sides have commenced an artillery duel. I’ll have my troops dig in and keep this sizable japanese force pinned.
In the northern areas, both sides dance around the border bases of Mangan, Vizogdyr, and Tamsag. Neither side seems to have enough troops to do anything too decisive. He has a large army at Hailar and I have a large force protecting Borzya. Along the river, my tank units continue to drive towards Heho and infiltrate the forest looking to cut off or capture Nunkiang.

Overall, my feeling is that the Soviet situation is stabilizing. The japanese will likely have to regroup and try a different route to defeat the Russians. They will eventually defeat the Russians but it will take longer and be more costly than my opponent originally planned.

What are your plans for a counter-offensive ? I think you might try and reinforce India with the Americans and start a ground campaign back into Burma, he will have preciously little reserve ground forces himself with the campaign against Russia.

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

What are your plans for a counter-offensive ? I think you might try and reinforce India with the Americans and start a ground campaign back into Burma, he will have preciously little reserve ground forces himself with the campaign against Russia.

I've definately considered that but there are a few factors that argue against an early burma counterattack;

1. The terrain (and lack of good roads) is horrible for an attack. When I come for Burma I'm going to need to capture a port to supply my army. The british will have only 1 or 2 smallish carriers until sometime in 1944.
2. The British don't have much in the way of unrestricted troops. The japanese could probably bottle up any overland attack with a force 1/3 the size of the british attack.
3. The British have no real bomber force to help bust thru a japanese blocking force.
4. Burma isn't worth attacking unless you can capture Rangoon-Moulmein and threaten Malaya and Thailand.

I could send some american forces but instead my plan is to use them to come up from Australia and hit the DEI. Here are the pluses to this plan;

1. I already have I Aus Corps concentrated at Perth and the Perth area is heavily built up already.
2. He has been continuously bombing Darwin but hasn't landed and grabbed it. It wouldn't take much to repair the base and use Darwin to augment my attack on the DEI.
3. I can use the australians and USMC to concentrate on one target at a time.
4. Attacking the DEI is potentially a dagger at the heart of the Empire. They cannot survive being cut off from it's oil.

The downside to this plan is that;

1. it's going to take months to gather the ships, planes, supply, and troops to make it happen. Then again, an attack on Burma has the same issue.
2. I will need my carriers to support this campaign. That means being able to survive the inevitable clash with the KB. I'm still trying to fill out my american carriers with the "state of the art" planes (F4F-4s, SBD-3s, and Avengers) and they seem to always be in the upgrade yards (various carriers have upgrades in June, July, and October 1942). I don't anticipate having enough fully prepped carriers until early 1943.

When I attack I want to have enough overwhelming force to throw a real knockout punch. I don't want to get stalled out and give him a chance to adapt to my attack. The good news is that the russians should be able to keep the japanese busy for many months to come unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

Thanx for the comment and sorry for the long post in reply. Turns out I had some time to kill at work today....

July 5, 1942

So I started watching the turn, and his forces landed in the non-base hex south of Nikolaevsk. Clearly he means to march into Nikolaevsk and take the city without facing the guns. I find this terribly gamey (in WITP, one of my standard houserules was no non-base landings) so I sent an email back at rader. Here’s our exchange.

ME: I just started watching the turn and noticed you landed at a non-base/non-dot hex. I would like to ask for a house rule forbidding this kind of landing. There's no way we can defend every coastal hex and landing at an undefended hex allows one to get an unfair advantage (IMHO). In otherwords, non-base landings end up gaming the system.

I'm willing to play on from here as this landing will just speed up the inevitable fall of Nikolaevsk, but how about no more from this point?

RADER: Hm, I'm sympathetic to your concerns but I'm not sure if I agree. It strikes me as terribly realistic that you would land at a hex next to a well-defended base and then march to it overland. As I recall, this happened all the time, and I'm not sure it's unrealistic at all. The Western allies didn't land at Cherbourg or Calais on D-day, they landed on a (relatively) quiet strech of beach in between. Going around fortified areas is what made fixed defenses less relevant.

If it should be dissalowed, it would be because the game doesn't handle it well (and this may be true, I havn't thought about all the implications of this enough). I think landing *fragments* at a non-base hex to cut retreat should be dissalowed, and maybe landing on non-base hexes at all to cut retreat should be. But landing, say, next to Darwin to avoid the guns (46 miles down the shore from the guns) sounds quite reasonable to me. In fact, it seems like since you can't prep, you take really high losses just for landing (as I just did). This seems like it is then reasonable. I'm curious what others think, and would like to post it to the list (I'll do so tomorow AM if you don't get to it by then). I'm not 100% opposed to such a house rule, but I don't think the game is screaming for one either. I will agree not to do it again until we agree one way or the other, but I really do think it is reasonable in this kind of situation, and would like to see what the "majority" think.

ME: It may be (arguably) realistic in the real world but the game just can't handle it. In WITP terms all of the D-day beaches would fit into one hex called "Cherbourg" or "Caen". In other words, a base hex.

I'm guessing you are planning to do the same thing to capture Okha, Alexandrovsk, etc. and I will blow my top if that happens. Heck, why not load up the southern army and land them next to Vladivostok and grab that too while you’re at it? Go ahead and post on the boards but I'm not going to give in on this one.

I know you don't mean any harm but I'm getting the sense you bend things a little more than I'm comfortable. I regret giving in on the River invasion thing especially as I feel you took advantage of it to totally bypass Nikolaevsk. I know I wasn't explicit about it but I was assuming you'd combine an honest attack on the base in conjunction with "running past the guns". Having set it up just right so that your landing would commence in the 1st turn of the war was an extra slap in the face. Having the entire (or nearly the entire) southern army show up in the russian rear (untouched) in the first two days of the war is just ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that you've continued to sail up and down the river since then without a single attack on Nikolaevsk. Running past the guns once maybe but what're we up to now? 1,000 ships passing by? how stupid are these russian gunners? And now you land on the beach to take it without ever having had a CD gun fire at you. Your excuse that "it's historical" really rubs me the wrong way. It's just too much.


Dunno if I’ll be continuing. Open to feedback from any readers out there. Here’s a screenshot of the situation I’m talking about.

Just my opinion - I think landing in non-base hexes is just fine and dandy - not gamey at all. I think the game handles it well enough (is there anything an engine of this scale could handle perfectly?).

My opponent's forces got smacked around by CD guns at Darwin. The terrain around there is so good I was surprised he faced the guns instead of landing elsewhere.

That's my opinion, I understand some folks feel otherwise.

July 1-4, 1942

Well, Rader and I went back and forth a couple times and in the end, he agreed to a house rule forbidding landings (or paradrops) at non-base hexes. We’ve also been bouncing around ways to avoid further conflicts like this (and the previous issue with his using the river to strike deep into the Russian rear). Not to get caught up with stereotyping but in real-life Rader is an engineer and I’m a psychologist. I can see he leans towards wanting very well-defined and “mathematical” solutions while I’m more comfortable with more fluid and abstract solutions. What he’d call “fuzzy”.

Anyhoo, the war continues.

I’ve sent out a large troop and supply convoy from SanFran heading towards Christmas Island. I’m taking a big chance as I know there are some japanese raiders out there. Several of my single ship “picket” TFs have been spotted by japanese planes but not attacked. I’m hoping this means a CL or AMC surface raider and not a carrier raiding force.

In the Russian campaign, he continues to pound my forces in the south (more later) with his airpower while I’ve been able to mostly shutdown his air in the north. For the four day period the japanese lose 65 planes and the Russians lose 40 airframes.

Soviet units continue to move towards the key battle in the south around Birobidhzan. I’ve been receiving a new artillery or engineer unit pretty much every turn and soon I’ll start getting an infantry brigade every turn or so as a reinforcement. I’m not sure if this represents standard Russian reinforcements or whether their queue has been accelerated by the japanese invasion. I should fire up a stock scenario 1 and take a look one of these days. The bad news is I’m due to have 5 rifle divisions withdrawn within the next month. Strangely enough, I’ve been able to delay this withdrawal by having them broken down into /A /B and /C components. This has given me anywhere from a week to over a month of extra time with them left on the map. Dunno what this represents. Maybe another thing for the designers to look at.

Action in the central front grabs the headlines. I badly underestimated the strength of his defeated blocking force and his ability to move in reinforcements. My pursuing force got badly disrupted by heavy japanese air attacks and then pushed out of the hex, retreating north to the “woods” hex.

With this reverse, I’ve decided to bug out of Birobidzhan and try to form a new line in the woods to the north. He had started deliberate attacking the city and chewing up the forts anyways. One way or the other, Birobidzhan’s days were numbered.

It’s going to be a bit of a race to pull my troops back before they get cut off but I’m hopeful I can hold the woods hex long enough.

In the south near Bikin, we both bombard each other every turn. I'm pretty sure, some of his artillery or armor units have "evaporated". During the replay they dissapear from the list and the results show heavy losses in japanese vehicles and guns. Go soviet artillery Go!

Farther north near Heho, I’ve reached the first japanese border fort. Once my tank division arrives, I’ll see about testing it’s strength. I’ve read that these border forts can be a real pain, as they won’t retreat and won’t surrender until severely beat up. That’ll take time I might not have.

July 5-12, 1942

Another week has passed and in non-russian front news; the Chinese have a japanese division isolated along the Indochina border. I won’t be able to destroy it but I have shot it up pretty good and more importantly drawn off several squadrons of japanese planes from the Russian campaign.

In the Pacific, various sightings of japanese AMCs, CLs, and SSs. Several of my picket AKs have been sunk and CVE Long Island took a torpedo from a sub enroute to Pearl from Panama. Damage is light (0/11/0) and she should arrive safely unless she runs into another raider. My large troop/supply convoy has just about reached Christmas Island without incident. This convoy carries about 50,000 troops, 10 squadrons of planes, and 300,000 of both supply and fuel. The next convoy is forming up at SanFran. This one will be escorted by CV Wasp and BB North Carolina and carry mostly troops and lots of them. Still no sign of japanese carriers in the Pacific (or anywhere else).

The Russian airforce is down to about 350 fighters and 600 bombers. The fighters are mostly defending my B17 base at Chita and the bombers are resting in between hitting what I hope will be lightly CAPed targets. My 50 or so B17s hit northern japanese airfields every turn trying to keep him from unleashing his power on Chita. They’ve done well in destroying planes on the ground and damaging the fields. Rader has been getting lots of OPS losses to his fighters. I suspect this is either because of using LR Cap or flying out of the heavily damaged northern airfields (Hailar, Arshaan, and Sunwu).

The japanese have mostly been pounding my troops around Birobidzhan with other flights hitting Borzya, my infiltrating tank units, and Vladivostok heavy industry. For the 8 day period, the japanese lose 156 planes while the Russians lose 110.

On the ground, things continue to develop. In general, I’ve avoided any major disasters while forcing Rader to send some forces to keep my northern raiders in check. Here’s some highlights;

1. Birobidzhan falls. I was able to march my entire force out of the city before he captured it and they are now marching to join my force in the “woods” hex along the river. I believe they should be able to make it without too much trouble.
2. My southern blocking force continues to pound the japanese with their massed artillery. I’m causing about 300 casualties a turn. Not a lot but it should start to add up as the weeks and months pass.
3. I’m pulling out the southern blocking forces armor and combining it with various other armored and infantry formations to create a force able to open a new front at Mishan. The plan is to concentrate and drive on this city and hopefully capture it or tie up another large japanese force. It appears to be lightly defended at this time.
4. My tank force north of Heiho continues to pound away at the fort. It’s taking time but it will fall soon. Every turn I’m getting high odds and causing hundreds of casualties while suffering very little damage in return.
5. Japanese forces have pushed my infiltrators off the Hailar railroad. I will continue to harass his rear areas as long as possible and tie up as many troops as possible.
6. I’m considering paradrops on Lungchun and Hailun. This would at least temporarily cut the Sunwu-Heiho rail line.
7. In the north, I recapture Yugodzyr and Mangan (in the far west) trades hands a couple more times. I have various units trying to outmaneuver his main borderlands force. He has about 1 ½ divisions so I have to be careful but they’ve been shot up pretty good and shouldn’t be too much of a threat.

July 13-18, 1942

Quite a bit of action all over the Russian front but first a few words on non-russian front news.

My troop convoy arrives at Christmas Island. The ships loaded with supplies, fuel, and marine air units continues on to Pago Pago and should arrive within a week. One of my small hunter groups (1 CA + 4 DDs) found AMC Akagi Maru and sank it NE of Christmas Island.

Another large (60,000 men) troop convoy has left SanFran escorted by CV Wasp and a strong surface TF.

I’m going to drop a base force on Raoul Island in the “dead zone” between Fiji and New Zealand. Once I have some Catalina’s flying naval search from this rock, I’ll be ready to start pushing troops towards NZ and Australia.

The japanese capture Nikolaevsk and renew their assault on the fort guarding Alexandrovsk (Sakhalin Island). They’ve brought up heavy reinforcements (1000 AV total) and will likely capture the fort soon but will find Alexandrovsk a tough nut to crack. It has 500+ AV with 6 forts and is a woods hex.

The japanese continue to pound away at Petrovpavlovsk with their bombers. I suspect he is just trying to keep it suppressed so I don’t get cute and move in some American airpower.

Here’s a look at the state of my submarine force ringing Japan. Several japanese AKs and patrol craft were sunk by the minefield I left in the Hakodate-Ominato strait.

As a side note, anyone else noticed how subs don’t use any fuel if you put them on patrol and just give them one hex to patrol in? As far as I can tell, they can sit there forever not using any fuel. The only reason to ever send them back to base is if they get damaged or run out of torpedoes.

In the central area, I successfully consolidate my forces in the “woods” hex just as the japanese arrive in force. I imagine he will start attacking next turn. He has 7500 AV vs. my 4500 AV. Crazy huge forces on both sides. Once he starts to wear me down, I’ll try to withdraw before getting routed.

He has moved forward about 1000 AV from Mishan and is attacking the fort outside Rybolov. This may prove to be a good opportunity for me. I’ve just about concentrated the forces for my own offensive and should out AV him 2 or 3 to 1. The plan is to rout this japanese force and then pursue it to Mishan and grab that city before he can bring up reserves. In support of this action, my B17s hit Mishan airfield and heavily damaged it and destroyed a dozen or so of his bombers.

In the Heiho-Sunwu area, I’ve destroyed the first japanese fort and reached and just about destroyed the next fort. I moved a motorized rifle division (over 500 AV!) over the river to aid in this process. My para attack on Lungchen failed to overcome the (previously unseen) base force but I have 2 fresh tank bns moving down the track inland of heiho. They will try to cut off Sunwu from any reinforcement or supply.

In the northern borderlands, things are going well for the good guys. He sweeps and bombs Chita causing heavy fighter losses and forcing me to disperse my planes. He also bombs Borzya and Choybalsan in attempts to find and destroy my planes on the ground. Luckily, I had just bugged out of both of those bases. Game wide, over the 6 day period the japanese lose 160 planes and the soviets lose 130.

On the ground, he recaptured Mangan and is chasing my motorcycle bn with an infantry bde. I have a tank Bde at Wuteh (the next base) and that should stop him from going any farther into the Mongolian hinterlands.

Meanwhile, I’ve trapped his main borderlands force of 500 AV. He moved his force into a hex held by one of my 100 AV cav units. I hit him with all my soviet bombers and caused about 2000 casualties. This weakened him to the point that he couldn’t push out my unit. Other soviet units moved in behind him and his force is now trapped as I control all the hex sides into the hex. He’ll have to bring up reinforcements or use lots of bombers to be able to break out. Meanwhile, I’ll leave enough force to pin him and move around him to create havoc in the japanese border bases and rail lines.

July 19-28, 1942

In non-russian front news, one of my hunter groups ran into CVE Hosho and an escort DD a couple hundred miles east of Pearl. They left both ships heavily damaged. Planes from the passing CV Wasp (guarding a troop convoy), finished off the CVE. The DD later sank as it limped away. Not a big loss for the japanese but at least the allies can claim first blood in the carrier war.

My south seas bases are all heavily built up and starting to get fully loaded with supplies, troops, fuel, and to a lesser extent, planes. I’ve begun prepping the marines for New Caledonia. Meanwhile at Perth, the I Aus corps has begun prepping for Exmouth (currently allied held but empty) and Port Hedland (japanese held). If he continues to leave the non-russian allies alone, I will be ready to make some offensive landings by late 1942.

The Russian front continues to be very busy. His airforce rules the skies and has been busy hitting most of my airfields and lots of my ground units. I’ve made a few raids on various ground stacks or fields but nothing much as I don’t have enough fighters left to defend my bombers. My B17s are rebuilding after getting roughly handled on a raid of Hailar. 11 heavies were shot down and 9 others were loss to Ops or flak. Over the 10 day period, the japanese lose 180 planes and the soviets 20.

In the maritimes, he continues to pound away at the fort south of Alexandrovsk. It should be wiped out within another turn or two. Other than various sub and ASW actions, nothing much of importance going on in this region.

In the central region, he bombs just about every ground unit and every airfield at least once (and many daily) in this period. My infiltrating tank bns are totally shattered by these attacks and larger forces are slowed down considerably. Despite this I make some progress. My 2000 AV arrives just in time to save the fort north of Rybolov. His disrupted force is routed back to Mishan. I am pursuing and should arrive and attack the city in 6 days.

A large stack of japanese tank regiments routs my flank guard east of the “woods” and pursues it into the wild. He appears to be pulling them back now but I’ve decided to pull my monster stack back one hex and dig in again. He had made a deliberate attack on the woods 9 days ago but only got 1:5 odds. He hasn’t attacked since. Instead, he’s been moving lots of units around south of the woods. I suspect he is either resting units in preparation for a knockout punch or making a flanking move along the river. Either way, I decided being another hex farther north would be to my advantage.

I continue to bombard his force outside Khaborvsk but he’s pulled several divisions out to reinforce his monster stack around the “woods”.

My 1000 AV mobile force destroyed the 2nd fort and has arrived at Heiho and made their first deliberate attack. They got only 1:3 odds, but knocked down a fort (6 to 5), and remain well organized (only minor disruption). I’ll keep pounding away for now.