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Center final - launched a few succesful attacks against 3rd Panzer army.

I opted not to attack here but continued the phased fall back. Pulled the mountain army off the line. Its pretty strong.

I sent everything I moved to Saransk

He has stripped 3rd Panzer of support so a few counters were launched giving him a bloody nose. The dam is about to burst further south so this may take a little pressure off.

7 North - He pulled his Panzers back for an HQ buildup or maybe a run to AGC.

DAK center - His main attack plunged to the northeast. He islo reinforced 3rd Panzer army and pushed east. The makings of a small pocket are showing. Perhaps its time to withdraw as the delay job has been done.

South - He punched through the line in one place but his Panzers do not have the strength to really do much.

North final

Center final - 48th army arrives on the scene for a potential counter punch. The line here is bending but not breaking. His Panzers are weak so I opted the create another doubleline. If he goes a little crazy there might be a chance to really smack a few Panzer divisions.

South final - the grand movements of organized withdrawal of the Soviet southern armies continue. As the Soutwest front armies cross the river the Kharkov armies concentrate. Southern armies occupy the next river line. The deep reserves continue to dig along the banks.

And once again, bulldozing fails spectacularly.

It never works. You really have to pocket as much as possible early on. And this game spotlights the power of the Lvov opening. Without it, SW can put up a real fight west of the Dnepr and probably won't be decisively displaced from the Dnepr until AGC helps it out from the north, as per the historical events.

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

And once again, bulldozing fails spectacularly.

It never works. You really have to pocket as much as possible early on. And this game spotlights the power of the Lvov opening. Without it, SW can put up a real fight west of the Dnepr and probably won't be decisively displaced from the Dnepr until AGC helps it out from the north, as per the historical events.

Your points are exactly why I did the AAR. The Lvow pocket opening does send the game in a different direction and takes away a lot of the historical feel of the early campaign. On the other hand without it the Soviet player can just run and save his troops because there is no real need to fight. I chose a middle of the road strategy with delay in mind and its worked out somewhat historically with slowing down AGS but not getting pocketed. Its been interesting to pull off.

I don't think the Soviet needs to run at all in the south assuming AGS isn't reinforced. I think the Soviet has every incentive to fight it out down there if it's just AGS versus SW Front and slow the advance to a crawl. Only when AGC cracks the Dnepr and begins to flank SW front from the north does the Soviet have to withdraw. This will happen around turn 10.

Whereas with the Lvov opening it's extremely difficult to stop the German from crossing the Dnepr down south past turn 6, and possibly before that. The Lvov opening accelerates the entire southern campaign by a good month or so.

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I don't think the Soviet needs to run at all in the south assuming AGS isn't reinforced. I think the Soviet has every incentive to fight it out down there if it's just AGS versus SW Front and slow the advance to a crawl. Only when AGC cracks the Dnepr and begins to flank SW front from the north does the Soviet have to withdraw. This will happen around turn 10.

Whereas with the Lvov opening it's extremely difficult to stop the German from crossing the Dnepr down south past turn 6, and possibly before that. The Lvov opening accelerates the entire southern campaign by a good month or so.

You are correct they do not need to run but I think a lot of Soviet players would do so.

I agree that this game shows that some form of the Lvov pocket is likely the only way to go for a German who wishes to have a chance to win. I also think it highlights that the game is fairly correct from the historical standpoint that if the German goes with just what AGS provides, then the Germans are absolutely going to struggle in the south, even if the weather is good all the time. I can't imagine how bad it would be for the German in this game if you threw in some mud as well.

Ketza, just curious how much attacking he has been doing with the panzers? From what you have been saying, they are in not very good shape at all. If he has been attacking with the panzers a lot to make headway, that is one thing, but if he has not been doing a lot with them, then I am sort of wondering why they are in such bad shape.

He has been attacking a lot with them. Mainly hasty attacks which against my better troops is slowly grinding him down. I think his abundant tank atacks are due to the fact he has not been able to close with his infantry as I have been keeping most of my troops just out of deliberate attack range. This might be leading to frustration on his part as he may feel the need to attack something.

My previous Axis play has helped me tremendously while playing Soviets as I have a very good grasp of what can and cannot be done in various situations.

Turn 8 center - Operation Mercury will be launched to hit 3rd Panzer

48th army slams into 3rd Panzers exhausted troops. 2 hexes are won back.

Center final - AGC is grinding forward but Soviet armies are stiffening. September is gonna be rough for him just as historical.

South fianl - the bulk of southwest front is across the river. He should be in a position to attack across turn 10.