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RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:48 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: Orm
I have not counted but I get the feeling that most blame Germany followed by 'all are to blame' and then a few votes on A-H and last UK. So far none, or few, seem to blame Russia, France or Serbia (except the group who blame all). Did I get this right?
I think you did [8D]
warspite1
Orm you've stolen me thunder!! [;)]
I was going to do a summary when the discussion came to a halt (which it kind of is) but I agree with your summary, thank-you.
I would remark on one thing only. One post contained the comment that "no serious historian blames Germany 100%" and indeed most of those that said Germany were to blame, also agreed there were other factors or other countries not without blame.
However the vote for the UK was most interesting and unexpected (particularly given that those that vote for Germany do not hold her 100% to blame) as "the blame for all out war lies squarely with Britain". Apparently that was not because we had a huge army gagging to go into battle with a pre-ordained plan and plenty of supplies (particularly shells), but because we "did nothing to dissuade France and Russia from aggressive posturing"....while "simultaneously faffing with the Germans, giving an impression that we would choose not to become involved".
It was welcome to hear a different viewpoint but I confess find a few things strange about that view:
- France and Russia were big grown up countries - why would they listen to us? Moreover why should we be blamed for not stopping them, but they not be blamed for their own actions?
- Besides, sometimes aggressive posturing works - witness even Hitler initially thinking twice when Britain gave a guarantee to Poland...
- We are to blame for not making it clear that we were in or out? But Germany is not to blame even though, the inference (and we know the Kaiser's thinking bears this out) "if Britain are in we will avoid a war" but "if Britain are out we will go kick French and Russian arse". Mmmmm not really the thoughts of a peace-loving regime....
Sorry but I am confused as to why we are suddenly the 100% bad guy.....
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:50 pm
by SLAAKMAN
I am sorry Slaakman. I forgot your vote for the Illuminati.
Your sins are forgiven Ormster ol' buddy. Now if you would be so kind and to fetch my beloveds, Isabelle & Emmeli Erkendal to sing me a soothing Lied, it will be most Lustworthy.[:D]
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:55 pm
by SLAAKMAN
Sorry but I am confused as to why we are suddenly the 100% bad guy.....
Youre not 100% "bad" Silly Warspite1-Newblette. Youre only 99% blamefull for giving the Illuminati a base to operate from-
http://www.savethemales.ca/000447.html
[:'(]
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:58 am
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: Orm
So far none, or few, seem to blame Russia, France or Serbia (except the group who blame all). Did I get this right?
Aye. That's a fair summary of the points of view stated thus far. Does your opinion differ? I would be interested to hear a perspective fleshing out the proportional blame assigned the French and Russians and why, because I just don't know enough about their impetus towards war at the time.
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:34 am
by GaryChildress
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: Orm
I have not counted but I get the feeling that most blame Germany followed by 'all are to blame' and then a few votes on A-H and last UK. So far none, or few, seem to blame Russia, France or Serbia (except the group who blame all). Did I get this right?
I think you did [8D]
warspite1
Orm you've stolen me thunder!! [;)]
I was going to do a summary when the discussion came to a halt (which it kind of is) but I agree with your summary, thank-you.
I would remark on one thing only. One post contained the comment that "no serious historian blames Germany 100%" and indeed most of those that said Germany were to blame, also agreed there were other factors or other countries not without blame.
However the vote for the UK was most interesting and unexpected (particularly given that those that vote for Germany do not hold her 100% to blame) as "the blame for all out war lies squarely with Britain". Apparently that was not because we had a huge army gagging to go into battle with a pre-ordained plan and plenty of supplies (particularly shells), but because we "did nothing to dissuade France and Russia from aggressive posturing"....while "simultaneously faffing with the Germans, giving an impression that we would choose not to become involved".
It was welcome to hear a different viewpoint but I confess find a few things strange about that view:
- France and Russia were big grown up countries - why would they listen to us? Moreover why should we be blamed for not stopping them, but they not be blamed for their own actions?
- Besides, sometimes aggressive posturing works - witness even Hitler initially thinking twice when Britain gave a guarantee to Poland...
- We are to blame for not making it clear that we were in or out? But Germany is not to blame even though, the inference (and we know the Kaiser's thinking bears this out) "if Britain are in we will avoid a war" but "if Britain are out we will go kick French and Russian arse". Mmmmm not really the thoughts of a peace-loving regime....
Sorry but I am confused as to why we are suddenly the 100% bad guy.....
Who started World War I? I think it started with the creation of the universe, which according to some "has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
EDIT: Though on a serious note, not being very knowledgeable about WW1, wasn't it A-H that declared war on Serbia for killing A.D Ferdinand? If that was the case I would think that's about as good a place to draw the line as any, maybe a toss-up somewhere between A-H and Serbia.
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:36 am
by danlongman
I think that Austria-Hungary felt a need to punish Serbia. Had Germany stayed within her own borders as they did on the East
they would hold much less of the blame than they do. Russia actually crossed the German frontier and got humiliated there.
Austria-Hungary in turn did poorly in Serbia and on the Eastern Front. France's Plan 17 was launched and died in the Battle
of The Frontiers. The Schleiffen Plan failed at the cost of bringing in Britain and the Empire and the chance of a short war
was gone.
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:58 pm
by GrumpyMel
ORIGINAL: Orm
I have not counted but I get the feeling that most blame Germany followed by 'all are to blame' and then a few votes on A-H and last UK. So far none, or few, seem to blame Russia, France or Serbia (except the group who blame all). Did I get this right?
No, I blame Serbia. There very well may have been something else to set it off if the Black Hand did not exist. But from my view the Serbian millitarys support for the Black Hand was the proximate cause.
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:04 pm
by Zorch
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:35 pm
by warspite1
warspite1
Good find Zorchster! [:)]
RE: Who started World War I?
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:26 pm
by Zorch
Thank you...always glad to be of service.