Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If you reduce British morale France will be even easier than it is now, and the Axis might steamroll Egypt to boot. Also, what gamey stuff in 1940-1? What I have found is the BoA soaks up so much production that the UK is definitely on hold until the Americans come in.

+1. The only exception is if the Germans don't build any U-Boats or otherwise challenge the UK in 1940.

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Flavius, 15-20 Mechs and Armor are insane! You have to do something... Come up with something better? Or resign the Axis against any competent Allied opponent every Winter of '43

As Axis you cannot build that many armor and Mechs and you start with 4!
Now Russia has the same number by late '43 ... Just too much!

Somethings gotta give! Somewhere!

Is this in game using 1.00.09 that the Western Allies built 15 - 20 Mechs? If so, how many U-Boats did you build and in what year did they have the 15 -20 Mechs.

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Not sure what Subs do now but I put 6 out in my last game and the entire Kriegsmarine and Sveint sunk them all! Bad luck? I hope not but I fear that the Atlantic War just is a bit too difficult... Axis can't bite that off and build enough armor and air/infantry to handle the rest of things!

It is not so much that subs do more damage, but that they can no longer be targeted by CVs (unless they end their turn in a coastal hex). This means that the the only way to damage U-Boats is with escorts and it is virtually impossible to sink them until late in the War. You should read MMs AARs.

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I agree with Oxfordguy's comments above. The UK and the US have already been considerably nerfed with the last few patches. Or more correctly, the nerfing of the CVs ability to sink subs has considerably increased the effectiveness of the U-Boats. If you have read MM's recent AARs you would know that from mid 1940 on almost all of the UKs (and Canada's) production is being spent on escorts and MMs. In my current game against MM where I am the Allies it is now September 27 1940. Canada has used 95% of its production on escorts. The UK did build some army units along with escorts and MM. I have not has any spare production to build new air units; which of course historically the UK did. I anticipate that most of the UKs production over the next couple years will be spent on escorts and MM.

In your game versus MM, I don't see you investing heavily in Merchants or in Escorts using UK production. Only Canadian are building escorts:
fb.asp?m=4928467

Not quite. I said that from mid 1940 on almost all of the UKs production will go towards escorts and MS. So from the beginning of the game until March 1 1940 (6 months) the UK production was used almost exclusively to build new army units and build up the understrength units that the UK starts with. But from April 1940 on all new UK production has been escorts and merchant marine. In reviewing my AAR I see that I forgot to record my builds for several of the turns in the spring and summer of 1940. When I next get a turn I will try and remember to take a screenshot of my production queues. Also I am afraid that I may have waited too long to start building escorts and MM with the UK.

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Right now the changes are what I have said.

Mech/Armor does seems to be the main driver of action here on all fronts. While the Axis are limited the Allies generally are not. But we have to see with the new oil adjustments with 1.00.09 for the Allies. I know I now have to manage oil a little as the UK until the USA can give me some. As the US I am building more MM, ES, SY, LC, TR

+1 Thank you Alvaro. I think the game may be nicely balanced now. I will know more once my AARs with MM are complete.

Flaviusx,

I think leaving France to fall in June/Early July which is what is possible is opening the doorway to a definite MidEast/Gibraltar Axis Strategy. If France isn't holding on into August(preferably September) I have a feeling a game is going to end really quickly vs an Axis who gets his fleet out of the Med and gets all the oil it can? Sure, there is a time to leave and Production and Manpower really aren't an issue for the British. Just keeping Mideast and the UK?

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I think France is fine as is. It's not what I'm looking at. It just irritates me when people say "fight harder in France" in order to balance the Germans. Um. No.

France is easy and ought to be easy.

These expedients you recommend will not make a lick of difference.

HarryBanana, my precise figures I cannot quote. Previous to 1.9 but both Sveint and MagicMissile had no issues placing that number of Mechs/Armor in Spain in 1943. I don't see what would change now? Production is exactly the same and I would be -2 Mechs and a Cas for buying the U-boats and repairing them?

At some point the Allies use to get GREAT at getting U-boats too, so their effectiveness seemed to always disappear in almost every game I played by Winter '42... That or just as swamp of reinforcements from the US/Canadians.

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Not quite. I said that from mid 1940 on almost all of the UKs production will go towards escorts and MS. So from the beginning of the game until March 1 1940 (6 months) the UK production was used almost exclusively to build new army units and build up the understrength units that the UK starts with. But from April 1940 on all new UK production has been escorts and merchant marine. In reviewing my AAR I see that I forgot to record my builds for several of the turns in the spring and summer of 1940. When I next get a turn I will try and remember to take a screenshot of my production queues. Also I am afraid that I may have waited too long to start building escorts and MM with the UK.

Thanks for the explanation. Great AAR by the way!

We do have the new Belgium rule now. So France falling between June and July with a very experienced player at the helm allows them other strategies.

Even a meh player like me can take France by August which allows me some things.

As someone pointed out above about u-boats building escorts and some patrol groups is the key to help. No building a patrol group isn't cost effective for escorting convoys but they do serve a 2nd purpose which is defending a fleet and giving some fodder to the fleets.

As for the UK your main priority during the war is to protect your island. I always struggle with builds for the UK. Then when Barb comes around now I gotta give a good chunk of PPs to the Russians and protect that lane.

As the UK I am kept very busy.

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

HarryBanana, my precise figures I cannot quote. Previous to 1.9 but both Sveint and MagicMissile had no issues placing that number of Mechs/Armor in Spain in 1943. I don't see what would change now? Production is exactly the same and I would be -2 Mechs and a Cas for buying the U-boats and repairing them?

At some point the Allies use to get GREAT at getting U-boats too, so their effectiveness seemed to always disappear in almost every game I played by Winter '42... That or just as swamp of reinforcements from the US/Canadians.

Production hasn't changed, but what the UK and USA have to do with their production has. If the Germans build 6 U-Boats (to go with the 3 they start with) and the UK uses it's production to build numerous armour and mech units (rather than escorts and MM) than I can guarantee you that by mid to late 41 the UK will not have any MS left at all (unless it shuts down some convoy routes). Even building 3 extra U-Boats will seriously cripple UK production if they don't build escorts and MM. Also remember that LC now cost 25 each and an invasion of Portugal now triggers Spain. I think the days of the Allies mounting huge invasions with 10+ armour/mech in 42 are over. Well unless the Axis neglect to build U-Boats and instead go "All-in" on Russia by building lots of armour/mechanized units themselves. And in that case I don't think they can really complain.

I thought thought that Germany starts with two U-boats now, not three?

Starts with two and one in the deployment queue

Lucky U-boats are great but unlucky ones can be hard to ferry back to port/repair and send out again. Had instances were they never need repairing for 10 turns and others were they never make it safely out there more than 1 turn.

ORIGINAL: ComadrejaKorp

Starts with two and one in the deployment queue

Ah, yes.

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

But they are all 20 at full strength and by the time Barbarossa starts they will be at 20. I wonder if this is a little too good for the Soviets. You can literally build one such corps every turn for two years.

That's a lot of armies. You wouldn't even have to build more of them. Just set production to reinforcements.

I think it would be better if they converted to small armies regardless, and force the Soviet to merge them into full armies.

You are right. That will destroy the entire production mechanism.

Falviusx, at best, how many rifle infantry armies do you have on the front line end of 1941, end of 1942, end of 1943?
Do you have a rough estimate?

We need to fine tune the conversion:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4934884

I just played a game Flaviusx, I am on turn 27 the Opponent against me with pretty good efforts has destroyed about 400+ Land HP. Over 200 Air HP. Of course this was probably with a bit of luck too, I am pretty sure that executing his strategy could yield 300 or 400 every time of Land HP loss and definitely 200 Air HP loss.

Destroyed 2 Corps and in exchange I don't think lost he any land Units but an Armor he sacrificed and since they defend well I paid a lot for it. (So my suggestion was sound to you, it was just the proper execution takes a little adjustment) 1 of my Mechs survived on 1 HP(!) I should of played more conservatively!

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The allies have no real ability to make the Germans bleed in France.

If you are very lucky and the German overtextends you might snipe one mech corps or somesuch thing. That's really not much. In the air the Luftwaffe is more dominant now than ever before.

I wish people would stop advising allied players to throw away the British military in France. It doesn't work. The most you can realistically hope for is to draw it out until early August. You will certainly not bleed the Germans in France.

If the German is foolish, he can bleed himself by extending operations in the latter half of 1940. But that is beyond the allied player's control. If the German is wise and limits himself after France and builds up you cannot stop this.

What was this strategy? I'd have to see it to believe it. I especially do not understand how he inflicted so many losses on the Luftwaffe.

If there is a secret sauce here, fess up, don't just give me generalities about what is possible. I want to know exactly what the deal is here.

It is very frustrating to me that you insist that France can be fought for and force the German to bleed and yet you don't explain how. Because I don't see it.

Give me a proper explanation, and I will even play you another game.

Answer this...

As the Allies how many armor/mech do you have by 1943?
UK
USA
USSR

As the Allies how many armor/mech do you have by 1944?
UK
USA
USSR

I did make some errors with Mission Settings on my Aircraft. But he stopped fighting my air a long time ago in France. I also put two tired corp too far forward.(without a public AAR you cannot reveal what is being done but if you want me to show you a French Defense that is decent I will)

Though basically, I imagine my opponent used a good deal of truck supply on his planes. Plus took risks. Fought hard. he put road blocks up. He planned out his entrenchment and funneled me into his kill zone. A lot of Axis Players would of quit at France in this game. Though the point is you can't defend/retreat your entrenched positions, there is plenty of mobility on those Armor/Mechs. I can't reveal someone else's secret sauce. You have to exact a toll before you can retreat and figure out the perfect time/spots to do it.

If you had done this to me Barbarossa would have lost about 35% of it's Fangs.

If I played him again it probably would be 375 lost HP for Land and 175 HP Air.. Though I think that's about the best one can expect against someone who has practiced France ...... You got to load up hotseat and play around with the idea.

Also somewhere else I imagine he was vulnerable but I couldn't get there in time!

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

What was this strategy? I'd have to see it to believe it. I especially do not understand how he inflicted so many losses on the Luftwaffe.

If there is a secret sauce here, fess up, don't just give me generalities about what is possible. I want to know exactly what the deal is here.

It is very frustrating to me that you insist that France can be fought for and force the German to bleed and yet you don't explain how. Because I don't see it.

Give me a proper explanation, and I will even play you another game.

I think I will wait until the next big patch, thanks.