Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I can do one better. The leaders are all Facked Up when you simply start a scenario!!! While waiting for Dave to send his first turn, I loaded the scenario and noticed all the leaders are screwed. When he sent our game, same thing, all Facked Up. We don't have to do squat. Obviously this no longer needs saves because it is rampantly occuring throughout the database simply when loading scenario. Want "the save" anyway?

Nevermind Momma always said if you have nothing good to say dont say anything at all

NM...

Pry,

Sent another one last night with a continuation of the game I started just for this purpose. I highlighted the leader anomalies.

When WOs appear they will be turned into a Japanese leader the following turn!

A Japanese leader may appear in TF when it gets engaged and has to split due to damage. The Jap leader will disappear when the individual ship is recombined with the TF

I am going to keep sending as I have been Pry. I think there is somethign wrong with the Turn 1 routines in 15 playing allies as the computer has already plotted the moves and the "dice have been rolled" so to speak. After that initial turn a few anomalies occur. I am continuing to monitor the leaders and am doing the leader check EVERY turn for EVERY unit and will send you multiple game turns each time to let you see what happens.

Pete

ORIGINAL: pry

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I can do one better. The leaders are all Facked Up when you simply start a scenario!!! While waiting for Dave to send his first turn, I loaded the scenario and noticed all the leaders are screwed. When he sent our game, same thing, all Facked Up. We don't have to do squat. Obviously this no longer needs saves because it is rampantly occuring throughout the database simply when loading scenario. Want "the save" anyway?

Nevermind Momma always said if you have nothing good to say dont say anything at all

So. Do ya want the save or not Paul? You can see for yourself with the game save...Just add your own password and voila. Has anyone else confirmed that the leaders are screwy from simply loading a scenario?

Yes.....turn 1 allied scenario 15, historical off, surprise off.....

It is my understanding that upon scenario loading the computer has already plotted moves for the Japanese and expected moves for the allies so it creates some screwy situations with CTDs and leader changes and other anomalies on that first turn if you plot allied movements not accounted for. These seem to mellow out after a few turns though but still the occasional random CTD using that fricking Back button or the ever popular WO in command. I am running this leader issue to ground and will send every turn save with highlighted leader changes and see what happens.

Start a 1.3 and yes, send the initial turn setup, if need be, with highlighted anomalies to Pry. There is something wrong and the more data the better in my opinion. I am not going to complain but just keep sending until we figure this out. I don't understand how one of mine was not repeatable though with a WO put in charge of TF after the TF leader went down with the ship. Random? Corruption? Unknown but the more data the better in my opinion......

Turn 2 in mine and Ron's test game, Tanaka has disappeared from the game.

2ndAcr, is it my eyes playing tricks after 2 and a half hours graphic editing, or is that a new avatar? It looks a little different. That or I am going insane, or both. [:D]

it is you. Same one I have had since I been playing on the internet. Took me forever and a friend to even make that image and upload it to my "playgrounds". I have just enough computer skills to be real dangerous to other peoples and my own computers.[:D]

LOL.... I guess looking at huge pixels against a pink background can play mary hell with your eyes. LOL.

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Turn 2 in mine and Ron's test game, Tanaka has disappeared from the game.

oh no!!! where am i??? [:D]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I can do one better. The leaders are all Facked Up when you simply start a scenario!!! While waiting for Dave to send his first turn, I loaded the scenario and noticed all the leaders are screwed. When he sent our game, same thing, all Facked Up. We don't have to do squat. Obviously this no longer needs saves because it is rampantly occuring throughout the database simply when loading scenario. Want "the save" anyway?

Point of note. So...I'm doing my turn (Dec 8/41) and have noticed a pattern with the "Facked Up" leaders from simply loading the game. From what I can see so far, the ships at sea are solid...no leader issue. Only the ones in port, LOADS of them, perhaps all, have corrupt leaders. At least for the US subs as I know them by heart and ALL those USN subs in port have lost the original leaders.

Save is stored...if wanted give me a bell.[8D]

Yep! Not one sub in port has an original leader. Went through them all. This is now much worse than 1.21. "Houston...ahh, Apollo 13, we have a problem."

Ron,

Please send it to Pry and note the leader anomalies. With my limited software knowledge and seeing what is happening in my game I tend to think that with the computer plotting moves first, before the allies get a chance to do anything, creates some sort of anomaly in the code that may cause this and it continues throughout the game to some extent but in different ways. I also think that looking in the editor at how the various leaders are interspersed nationality-wise may create a coding issue if not specific on which line to pick from when substituting leaders. If leaders were grouped by nationality and branch this could maybe make it easier to code or fix.

Just my input. No changes in leaders last night. The changes were already made though in the first 3 or 4 turns. Pry has all those saves and the one that couldn't be repeated but yet shows on my save game is where my PT TF Commander Szukalski (not changed by me) went down with his ship when they sortied against KB near PH and the TF leader became a WO which the next turn turned into Japanese officer. Original leader's name was Szukalski and he appeared again on another PT after going down with his PT so I don't know what is going on.

He Pry, I thought you and all should know this. I am doing a test of the War Plan Orange mod, and the British Squadrons set to Random leader start out with Staff Officers with ? for leadiship and expierience. However, I noticed when I change their altitude, their leader changes WHILE I am still on the the screen. I understand this is an airgroup problem, but if changing the alitude can change a leader, it could be something along those lines causing the leader bug. Just a thought.

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

Ron,

Please send it to Pry and note the leader anomalies. With my limited software knowledge and seeing what is happening in my game I tend to think that with the computer plotting moves first, before the allies get a chance to do anything, creates some sort of anomaly in the code that may cause this and it continues throughout the game to some extent but in different ways. I also think that looking in the editor at how the various leaders are interspersed nationality-wise may create a coding issue if not specific on which line to pick from when substituting leaders. If leaders were grouped by nationality and branch this could maybe make it easier to code or fix.

Just my input. No changes in leaders last night. The changes were already made though in the first 3 or 4 turns. Pry has all those saves and the one that couldn't be repeated but yet shows on my save game is where my PT TF Commander Szukalski (not changed by me) went down with his ship when they sortied against KB near PH and the TF leader became a WO which the next turn turned into Japanese officer. Original leader's name was Szukalski and he appeared again on another PT after going down with his PT so I don't know what is going on.

He's got it. Did not note all the anomalies as they are across the board...hundreds of them. Poor guy, feel for him. This looks like a big pain.

Excellent.....I encourage anyone and everyone to send whatever they have as there may be a little clue in each one when all put together can figure this thing out. I hate the leader bug.

Please ... there are more then 1 Leader bugs. Grouping them together will result in some being missed.

Start a unique thread for each bug you run into and don't hijack other threads. It *really* helps us track them better.

Based on the length of this thread, there are probably 3+ bugs rolled up inside of it of which probably only 1 will get fixed because everyone will assume that the save sent shows their bug.

Frag,

The save games I am sending are showing the anomalies and there may be a few reasons for it. That is why I am asking for the other folks on here to send saves along with the anomalies identified. I started a 1.3 game specifically to find the leader bugs and am putting a lot of time into this one thing so it can get fixed.

Pete

Ok had a very bad (stressful) last 2 weeks at work (at my real Job) and after reading some of the crud in this thread and a few others I admit I lost my temper and patients to even deal with some of the more vocal obsessive folks around here and walked away from the forum for most of the last week... I have calmed down and it appears that many of you have also so lets get back to work as a team... leave the trash talk at the door no whining no crying over this and that. Let's get this solved Ok...

Ok I need some input from players who seem to have a higher than the rest of us numbers of this issue occurring to them, do you as a normal course of play examine allot of your air groups, task forces and LCU's on a regular basis without giving orders to them

Just opening the detail screen taking a look and closing it and moving to the next unit at the location?

There are multiple causes that end up with the same effect, so we need to track them down one by one, Right now one of the things I am looking at is when you open the unit detail screen and presto there is the unnamed WO in command???

I am looking at the sequence of events that lead to the leader loss because it is hard as hell to reproduce...

I only look at a units detail screen when I issue an order to that unit I don't surf the stack at a location and I do not suffer from the issue like the number of occurrences reported by some of you.

Post comments here or email me at pry-witp@houston.rr.com, I don't respond to all email but I read it and look into all issues and reply if I have questions (Time just does not allow to answer each and every message)

Every one leave their ego at the door and let's work on solving this...

I check on units and TFs without changing their orders. I do this because I can't remember what that particular TF is supposed to be doing or I want to see if that air unit has recovered enough to be given a mission or how prepped a LCU is for its next target.

I think part of it has to do with AI features. When in my 1.3 game I had autosub ops off, the leader bug wasn't that bad. Then, I turned it on for about a week, and got blindisded. Now that I have turned it back off, I have played a solid 5 turns without a leader being replaced.

Another thing I noticed is sometimes when you click a button (refer to my comments about war plan orange) the leader will change.

So far, from what I have checked, if you use auto sub ops and auto convoy, then the leader bug is rampant in your subs and any ships you assign convoy duty. If you don't, then the leader bug becomes less rampant.

As to flattops and tin cans, in that first save I sent all I had done that turn was create a TF, and the leader changed.

I'm like dtravel. I check and scrutinize each TF, especially if its a convoy I assigned several turns ago and I can't remember what it is for.