Matrix Games Forums

7/8/44

Fun House: Three Allied armies have finally closed on isolated, battered elements of the Japanese army on Luzon. Tomorrow will see three attacks.

Peep Show: Death Star will suddenly move back north, escorting a TF carrying engineers to Orchid Island.

DEI: Kamikazes make their first appearance. 10 Zero 5s target merchantmen unloading the last of an infantry division at Ternate. I had good CAP, but it was tuckered out after manhandling enemy LRCAP or sweeps. Three xAPs take a kami hit apiece and have moderate damage.

John has lost quite a lot of top-end fighter over Ternate over the past four or five turns. This is a backwater for me, with single-engine bombers hitting the IJ garrison. But the Allied fighters have performed superbly against the enemy fighters.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

MakeeLearn apparently new about the kamikazes before I did.

My apologies, the post I read was "the Allies are informed" and doing 10 things at once today I took that as you knew. I pulled as quick as I realized you may not have known .

Let the cat out again....

The Kamikaze is here..

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ushakov has it right.

Following Nashville, the pitiful remnant of the Army of Tennessee withdrew to Mississippi, where General Hood resigned. The Army of Tennessee (by name, with quite a few units detached or melting away, as ushakov noted) then moved east by rail. I think there were gaps in the rail line, specifically at Selma, Alabama, and where Sherman had marched through Georgia. But I think the route included Columbus, Macon and Augusta, GA. Joseph Johnson resumed command as the army moved into North Carolina for the final stages of the war, where it was joined by other fragments of units - I think including troops under D.H. Hill and perhaps William J. Hardee. That "army" surrendered at Bentonville.

The actual surrender was near Durham Station, NC, a bit WNW of the capital of Raleigh -- but not too far from Bentonville, where the Confederate troops fought their last serious battle. By that time, Johnston's forces were called the "Army of the South". He had been made commander of Florida, Georgia, and both Carolinas, and so scraped together what troops he could from a wide area, including the remnants of the once-mighty Army of Tennessee.

BTW, congratulations on saving the USS Pennsylvania!

I feel your pain on having SAG not reacting![:)] Part of what makes the game great.


Pakse is a fairly critical base. Kudos on taking it for next to nothing.

How are the plane losses doing daily? You mention savaging LRCAP?

Interesting force magnifier in having Miri and Manila...fuel and a relatively big shipyard. Makes me wonder about the other close by shipyards.

I got to thinking the 17 divisions you report on having in the greater Luzon area, the success of your Burma Push, the relative strength the Chinese have, and the long convoluted lines that Japan has.

My guess is you are going to go for the Islands around Okinawa, and eventually Okinawa after it has been isolated for a while. The Formosa move is simply being opportunistic/diversionary.

From Okinawa you will have complete freedom to attack the Chinese, Kyushu, Kochi, Honshu, or Korean coast; savage western Honshu Kyushu by air, move on the Japanese Islands.

All of those islands can be built up to level 4,5 or 6 runways I think.

From a Japanese viewpoint, Okinawa is more difficult to use kamikazes/land based air to defend than say Formosa.

Of course I am probably all wet.[;)]

7/8/44

Air Losses: John's best fighter frames have been beaten up at Ternate the past three or four turns, with today being the most lopsided.

In battles elsewhere for the past many months, the first round of an air battle between, say, Corsairs and Franks, results in fairly even loss ratios, say 1.5:1 in favor of the Allies. Then the following sweeps by fighters, whether Corsair, P-38 or P-47, usually scores a much better ration, sometimes 3:1 or 4:1.

But Ternate has been going against John's fighters at high ratios, like 7:1 or more, in the opening round. My best guess is that this could be a pilot quality issue.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



I feel your pain on having SAG not reacting![:)] Part of what makes the game great.


Pakse is a fairly critical base. Kudos on taking it for next to nothing.

How are the plane losses doing daily? You mention savaging LRCAP?

Interesting force magnifier in having Miri and Manila...fuel and a relatively big shipyard. Makes me wonder about the other close by shipyards.

I got to thinking the 17 divisions you report on having in the greater Luzon area, the success of your Burma Push, the relative strength the Chinese have, and the long convoluted lines that Japan has.

My guess is you are going to go for the Islands around Okinawa, and eventually Okinawa after it has been isolated for a while. The Formosa move is simply being opportunistic/diversionary.

From Okinawa you will have complete freedom to attack the Chinese, Kyushu, Kochi, Honshu, or Korean coast; savage western Honshu Kyushu by air, move on the Japanese Islands.

All of those islands can be built up to level 4,5 or 6 runways I think.

From a Japanese viewpoint, Okinawa is more difficult to use kamikazes/land based air to defend than say Formosa.

Of course I am probably all wet.[;)]

I have found that SAGs will only react if under a patrol order.

If you're guarding a base with them give them a one hex patrol pattern in the base hex.

If you're looking for an intercept send them to the intercept point either with a 1 hex patrol pattern or a random pattern based around the target hex.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt without a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, no interception will occur.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt with a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, your patrol reaction range may still make the intercept happen.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/8/44

Air Losses: John's best fighter frames have been beaten up at Ternate the past three or four turns, with today being the most lopsided.

In battles elsewhere for the past many months, the first round of an air battle between, say, Corsairs and Franks, results in fairly even loss ratios, say 1.5:1 in favor of the Allies. Then the following sweeps by fighters, whether Corsair, P-38 or P-47, usually scores a much better ration, sometimes 3:1 or 4:1.

But Ternate has been going against John's fighters at high ratios, like 7:1 or more, in the opening round. My best guess is that this could be a pilot quality issue.

That is really out of the world results, and in fact probably the biggest development as it goes to mindset. I had thought Japan was doing significantly better in their air war. If it is LRCAP, the pilots morale, fatigue, plane fatigue, are probably all sky high in addition to the pilot quality getting poorer.

Were where those planes over Luzon? To be honest, those fighters should only be there for a one off raid, and even then the SR2 & 3 planes will have difficulty getting back to the Formosa/Okinawa line that is the most likely axis of advance for the Allies.

I guess their loss helped the first kamikaze strike of a whopping 10 planes get thru, but boy those are simply gifts to the Allies. A lot like the loss of 100 torpedo planes against the Deathstar a few days back. Japan simply cannot be so extravagant with their planes for no return.

How is John using the Nick D NF? I see him losing 4 a day pretty reliably and I am at loss to understand how.[&:]

And one final question, what does recon tell you about the fighter strength on Formosa and Okinawa area?

John has been using some Nicks lately on small raids (sweeps, I think) against Luangprabang, where they keep bumping their heads against some good Spit VIIIs.

Formosa is now loaded with fighters, but few strike aircraft. I'm thinking John is preparing for the inevitable 4EB assault, but I'm waiting to get Aparri, so that my sweeps will be at a reasonable range. (All those fighters could be kamikazes, but more likely there for CAP). Okinawa also has a lot of fighters.

Peep Show: For OpSec reasons, I won't disclose the original (and still possible/probable) Peep Show target. But I will say that there are three Peep Show possibilities: The original target, Formosa, and Hainan Island, and it's possible I'll hit two or all three.

US Army divisions are prepping for beachheads at each of those locations. Prepping for the beachhead assault is key, simply to minimize disablements. Once a beachhead is taken, reinforcements can land without disablements (everyone knows this, except some newer players).

Formosa is probably the most enticing target, because it's strongly defended but probably not uber defended (I want to hit enemy troops), it's airfields are proximate to Japan for future bombing, and it's also close to Luzon's friendly airfields and ports.

But if Formosa ends up not being a great option (unlikely since Peep Show will commence in a few weeks), two divisions are prepping for a beachheast at Hainan. That also has open terrain and would be subject to 4EB raids.

The original Peep Show target is a good one. That location was chosen nine months back. SigInt has consistently told me what I wanted to see - it's defended, but not well. Things may change, but the clock is winding down now.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
(All those fighters could be kamikazes, but more likely there for CAP).

I have often wondered what category FB fall into on the recon reports? Are they fighter or bomber. Now I wonder if the kamikazes show up as fighter or bomber?

Kamikaze fighter squadrons, can be used to escort I recall. I tried using them in that mission, hoping they would ram their planes into Jugs but no luck. They just died. [:(]

Tough mission for Nick Ds.[:)]

The air war has become particularly bloody of late, which has my attention.

Up until about two weeks ago, Allied pools of P-47D25 were building nicely to 180+, and those squadrons with them were performing so superbly that I had no concerns about the pools. The Jugs are beasts.

But of late there have been many bloody engagements, the most costly of which was the escort missions aimed at Mini KB near Miri. It flew at reasonable odds, but you'll recall that a squadron of Jugs and one of Mustangs got eaten alive in that role.

I have a lot of squadrons flying Jugs, and most or all are fully equipped. I have about 88 in the pool. And I have a couple of squadrons in the DEI and Thailand that I can switch to lesser aircraft, if necessary.

All that to say: I have to monitor this carefully and probably restrict Jugs to sweep roles.

The situation with all other good fighters- Corsairs, P-38s, Spit VIIIs, and P-51s - is much tighter. Those aren't options either.

I have 17 zillion Hellcats in the pools, but those cannot be used in any role except Death Star defense and defense of my main shipping base (Legaspi) against threat of KB assault. Franks and Georges destroy the Hellcats. I think Death Star is well defended even in proximity to enemy airfields due to the number of Corsairs and the sheer number of Hellcats.

So, for the foreseeable future, I see my best fighters serving mainly in sweep roles over Formosa until the 4EB reduce most or all of those airfields.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



I feel your pain on having SAG not reacting![:)] Part of what makes the game great.


Pakse is a fairly critical base. Kudos on taking it for next to nothing.

How are the plane losses doing daily? You mention savaging LRCAP?

Interesting force magnifier in having Miri and Manila...fuel and a relatively big shipyard. Makes me wonder about the other close by shipyards.

I got to thinking the 17 divisions you report on having in the greater Luzon area, the success of your Burma Push, the relative strength the Chinese have, and the long convoluted lines that Japan has.

My guess is you are going to go for the Islands around Okinawa, and eventually Okinawa after it has been isolated for a while. The Formosa move is simply being opportunistic/diversionary.

From Okinawa you will have complete freedom to attack the Chinese, Kyushu, Kochi, Honshu, or Korean coast; savage western Honshu Kyushu by air, move on the Japanese Islands.

All of those islands can be built up to level 4,5 or 6 runways I think.

From a Japanese viewpoint, Okinawa is more difficult to use kamikazes/land based air to defend than say Formosa.

Of course I am probably all wet.[;)]

I have found that SAGs will only react if under a patrol order.

If you're guarding a base with them give them a one hex patrol pattern in the base hex.

If you're looking for an intercept send them to the intercept point either with a 1 hex patrol pattern or a random pattern based around the target hex.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt without a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, no interception will occur.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt with a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, your patrol reaction range may still make the intercept happen.

This is good advice with a slight change. The developers revealed and I have successfully confirmed that the key is the "Remain on Station" order overrides the "React" setting and causes the TF to not make any intercepts. The "Retire" order does allow interceptions and obeys the "React" setting (with the usual AE random additions!). The "Patrol" order also allows intercepts and obeys the "React" setting.

As described by HansBolter, I regard the "Patrol" order plus "React" setting as the best way to make surface intercepts.

When I only want a TF to make one attempt then return to base I use "Retire" plus "React" and give a destination hex that will make it sweep through the area I want as it goes out and returns (or just returns if it's on the way in already).

Consider this part of HansBolter's post.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt without a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, no interception will occur.

The most important factor is "Remain on Station" versus "Retire": if the TF has "Remain on Station" orders then no intercept will occur (unless they run into each other by chance, which happens in AE); with "Retire" orders the TF will obey the "React" range order and might intercept.

But (as HansBolter advises) using a "Patrol" order (plus a "React" range order) will give the best chance of intercept because the TF will patrol around instead of arriving and heading straight home.

The combat TF was set to patrol the hex but didn't engage for some reason. Its commander is a good Brit officer with very good "naval" and "aggression" ratings, but the TF didn't do a thing. Just one o' those things. Perhaps she was caught up in a fog bank while a gyro-compass went bad.

Thanks for the refresher courses, though I think I have a pretty good handle on these particular issues.

Thankfully WitPAE was not programmed to be a strict logical recipe. Weather, timing, a commander that senses something is not right and just good ol' fate.

As Brother' Ulysses Everett McGill said "Pete, it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The combat TF was set to patrol the hex but didn't engage for some reason. Its commander is a good Brit officer with very good "naval" and "aggression" ratings, but the TF didn't do a thing. Just one o' those things. Perhaps she was caught up in a fog bank while a gyro-compass went bad.

Thanks for the refresher courses, though I think I have a pretty good handle on these particular issues.

I too had all the settings "correct" and had even more SAGs with which to intercept. It happens.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Peep Show: For OpSec reasons, I won't disclose the original (and still possible/probable) Peep Show target. But I will say that there are three Peep Show possibilities: The original target, Formosa, and Hainan Island, and it's possible I'll hit two or all three.

I think I know which Formosa target you have in your sights but won't mention it.
Re: Hainan, I can't recall if I mentioned before but Kiungshan is the best invasion target - open terrain and .... NO Malaria!

7/9/44

Dealing with the Riff-Raff: This was an inefficient and unintentional but highly effective way to do it.

7/9/44

Dealing with Subs: Every sub killed merits a celebration.

7/9/44

Sweep at Cotabato:

Were those 16" shells that wiped out the MLs? In reading the battle of Leyte Gulf, where the US DD and DE ships charged the IJN big boys, some of the big shells passed right through, thereby doing much less damage than one would otherwise suppose. But I would guess a 16" hit would instantly obliterate an ML.