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LoBaron: It is definately good idea if you can be guaranteed that those units will actually be destroyed and not retreated. If retreated this would one grand disaster so I personally think that your idea is more doable.

Only downside is that you will lose those industrial cities by implementing this option. Than again I really don't know whether that actually makes much of an diffrence overall.

The fatigue is and morale takes a hit if destroyed so that is downside too. The good thing would be that experience levels are not affected.

Also another annoying little things that if you divide corps into A, B and C units than you cannot not combine them if A,B or C gets destroyed. These "fragments" will not appear on the scheduled arrivals either. That is very bad thing and has happened to few of my units already.

Morale recovers quite quickly in Rest/Training-mode. Obviously not for units in combat zone, though.

ORIGINAL: aztez

LoBaron: It is definately good idea if you can be guaranteed that those units will actually be destroyed and not retreated. If retreated this would one grand disaster so I personally think that your idea is more doable.

Only downside is that you will lose those industrial cities by implementing this option. Than again I really don't know whether that actually makes much of an diffrence overall.

The fatigue is and morale takes a hit if destroyed so that is downside too. The good thing would be that experience levels are not affected.

Also another annoying little things that if you divide corps into A, B and C units than you cannot not combine them if A,B or C gets destroyed. These "fragments" will not appear on the scheduled arrivals either. That is very bad thing and has happened to few of my units already.

A way to get units destroyed might be to let them shock attack into superior forces. I've just had a Chinese corps simply evaporate when it did that.

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

ORIGINAL: aztez

LoBaron: It is definately good idea if you can be guaranteed that those units will actually be destroyed and not retreated. If retreated this would one grand disaster so I personally think that your idea is more doable.

Only downside is that you will lose those industrial cities by implementing this option. Than again I really don't know whether that actually makes much of an diffrence overall.

The fatigue is and morale takes a hit if destroyed so that is downside too. The good thing would be that experience levels are not affected.

Also another annoying little things that if you divide corps into A, B and C units than you cannot not combine them if A,B or C gets destroyed. These "fragments" will not appear on the scheduled arrivals either. That is very bad thing and has happened to few of my units already.

A way to get units destroyed might be to let them shock attack into superior forces. I've just had a Chinese corps simply evaporate when it did that.

Also , low morale/exp troops have a chance of surrendering when forced to retreat anyway ( according to the manual and what i saw in malaya). This does make me wonder about 'cities' as in WitP troops surrendered in hordes if in a city but held to the last man in the countryside. I wonder if the same is true in AE ?

Incoming new build 30% corps would i imagine recieve troops at national average (20-25 ?) so not great by any means but if they arrive with Chungking at 100% prep, keeping them in place will improvee thier exp quite fast. Its getting to 100% thats usually the slow bit.

Dave actually proposed himself that if/once china falls he will not use these armies outside of china. Only place he will and can send in reasonable amount of troops is manchuko.

Thats a very kind offer but i think a more 'realisitic' approach would be to only use them as defensive troops (unless soviets invade) in the DEI/PI/SE Asia/home islands region. Obv he'll have to garrison china adequaterly. Thinking a bit more about this he 'could' use the chinese army and the kwantung army to fight the USSR in 43. Might be fun to play that out imo.

Sardaukar: Yeah, morale can recover "fast" when unit is set on rest mode.

Smeulders: That is one of getting it done. We have however an houserule forbidding the shock assaults here so this is not an option at the moment.

Rob: The experience / leader checks are implemented in many areas of the game. Basically they could surrender but if not "lucky" than they will retreat completely destroyed and thus leaving me with no reinforcements but just these battered units.

That is why it is risky business eventhough I do like it a lot. Wel shall see whether he launches new offensives here next turn or what are his goals.

Well, we agreed that reasonable amount of troops can be used either for defensive or offensive duties in Manchuko area. So, who knows we might see and japan vs ussr battles later on but first lets try to make most out of china before completely surrendering.

China (july 25th - 28th 1942)


There has no additional ground assaults launched againts Changhsa.

However there has been very heavy bomber strikes againts the city and surronding hexes.

Dave is continuing moving troops around Henghyang and has an brigade occupying the chinese city north of base.

He has also moved 2 additional units into position between Kweilin and Henghyang thus blocking the railroad here.

The map below shows the latest movements and positions. Maybe it is time get out or than again it might time to fight it out for good.

Burma (july 25th - 28th 1942)


The last two turns saw an invasion TF unloading at Akyab. I'am somewhat suprise to see this since Dave has major operations ongoing at Oz too.

After learning this I put a lot of RAF bombers into navalstrike missions at 9000 feet and here are the results.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
F1M2 Pete x 1



Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 6
LB-30 Liberator x 8
B-25C Mitchell x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 18


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-29A Hudson: 2 damaged
LB-30 Liberator: 3 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
xAP Haruna Maru
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
xAP Husimi Maru
BB Yamato

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
F1M2 Pete x 1



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 15
Hurricane IIa Trop x 2


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
BB Yamato



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 14000
Raid is overhead
Kongo-1 with F1M2 Pete (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
F1M2 Pete x 1



Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 10
SB-III x 6
Beaufort I x 2
Blenheim IV x 11
Hudson IIIa x 4
Hurricane IIa Trop x 2
Hurricane IIc Trop x 5
LB-30 Liberator x 6
B-25C Mitchell x 6
P-38E Lightning x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 15


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB-III: 1 damaged
Beaufort I: 1 damaged
Hudson IIIa: 1 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
LB-30 Liberator: 5 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato
BB Haruna
BB Kongo



Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SB-III bombing from 9000 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 100 kg SAP Bomb
10 x A-29A Hudson bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
11 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
2 x Hurricane IIa Trop sweeping at 25000 feet
2 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
4 x Hudson IIIa bombing from 9000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
2 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 25000 feet
6 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 8 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
2 x P-40E Warhawk sweeping at 25000 feet
13 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 25000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
F1M2 Pete x 1



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 8


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
F1M2 Pete x 1



Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 10
Beaufort I x 3
Blenheim IV x 22
Hudson IIIa x 15
Hurricane IIa Trop x 2
Hurricane IIc Trop x 4
Wellington Ic x 9
LB-30 Liberator x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 9
P-38E Lightning x 13


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-29A Hudson: 1 damaged
Blenheim IV: 2 damaged
Hudson IIIa: 1 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
LB-30 Liberator: 2 damaged
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
xAP Hakone Maru
BB Yamato
xAP Horai Maru
xAP Mizuho Maru
xAP Husimi Maru
xAP Haruna Maru



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x A-29A Hudson bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
5 x Hudson IIIa bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
10 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
2 x Hurricane IIa Trop sweeping at 25000 feet
3 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
1 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 25000 feet
5 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
4 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
7 x Hudson IIIa bombing from 9000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
1 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 25000 feet
9 x Wellington Ic bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 8 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
3 x Hudson IIIa bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
3 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 8 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
10 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 25000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,45

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 8
Wellington Ic x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 9


Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 damaged
Wellington Ic: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
xAP Husimi Maru
BB Kongo
xAP Mizuho Maru



Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Blenheim IV bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
13 x Wellington Ic bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 8 x 500 lb SAP Bomb


....and as you can see we recorded no hits on the enemy ships at Akyab. This really has changed from the classic witp. Next turn even more aircraft are ordered to intervene this time though around 4000-6000 bombing alltitude.

Mini KB is covering these landings at Akyab. Currently I do not have intel on the whereabouts of the KB itself.

Lets just hope the RAF guys can do some damage here.

Early in the war, I have only been able to consistently get hits on transports at the 1000 to 2000 height. AA hurts though at this height. Even from just transports.

Aztez sorry I was right about the new issue at Akyab

Just be aware. If he takes Aykab he need not supply it from the sea. Just by clicking on the supply button he can pull massive amounts of supply overland from Burma. If you don't have a house rule against this, it might be a good time to bring it up.

Akyab can be easily supplied by transport airplanes.

Well, we agreed that reasonable amount of troops can be used either for defensive or offensive duties in Manchuko area. So, who knows we might see and japan vs ussr battles later on but first lets try to make most out of china before completely surrendering.

[:D].. im not pessimistic about china tbh. even if you have to withdraw to eventual chungking seige scenario it will take him ages to finally reduce and take that. (i hope). and he still has to get there. Your doing about as well as anyone could imo the rest of us will have hindsight regarding china. Your a brave soul aztez. [&o] Holding kumming is a rather importand defense too. fortunately he has a nice long crummy supply train into burma to rely on. humm .. IF he comes along it in strength maybe para drop a unit to vut supply later on ?? im just thinking out load here.

Akyab , unfortuneately unless you do air-sea training you wont hit anything .. train trian and then train some more .. can never do enough. PS train torp bombers below 6k else they get bomb training. even then some might get low level bomb training skills .. getting TB trained in TB skills is a very hit and miss affair.

Go on, train the bombing Aztez. After a dozen unsuccessful attacks with waves and waves of B-17 in the Guad scenario, my opponent finally put a bomb into Yamato and another into a troop transport from 10,000 feet on the second week... Combat does improve performance on this chapter [;)]

As for naval bombing, I have found that the only way to make lvl bombing effective is to go in at 100' like an attack bomber. Suddenly the Dutch are working.

On the one hand, one might say it is gamey to begin skip bombing tactics in 1942, but honestly, if nothing else is working, the strategy must be adopted. Besides, there are flak loses involved, and it would be a bad idea against the sort of warships he has there. What about torp bombers? Any more available?

In China, I think you need to fight it out in Changsha. If you retreat from there, I feel that you may as well have lost the war in china without a serious fight. But that's just my opinion.

khyberbill: Yeah, that is propably true. I think it somewhat game to bomb below 4000 feet in 1942 at least so I will keep my bombers at this alltitude.

Very good tip though and I do not doubt it.

offenseman: You had the crystal ball for sure. I'am still not convinced that this is actually major operation. It might be just an decoy since my gut feeling is saying that the most obvious target is Oz.

crsutton: No we don't have an houserule on this issue. It is getting late in game terms so I think I will just let him do this and pay back the courtesy when I go into offensive mode.

Swenslim: It takes quite a few aircraft to keep it supplied this way but I don't agree that it isn't doable.

Rob: Thanks for compliment. As for china well maybe I'am doing good but it sure doesn't feel like it. I did issue on general retreat orders last turn. More about this on the china update.

Kumming has now some 600av worth of chinese so it is not easy to conquer.

I have a lot of units on training mode around the map. It is still early days so no need tor rush these units out.

Fishbed: We will most certainly do that when opportunity presents itself. Dave has withdrawn his naval assets so it is not an target rich enviroment.

Good to hear that these bombers can hit juicy targets though.

Xxzard: I know that 100 feet is effective. Only thing being that I do not feel comfortable doing so. Good tip though if you do not HR againts it.

As for china... we did not fought out changhsa. (see map below)

China (july 29th - august 3rd 1942)


Japanese troops seized Lanchow in northern china with minimal damage to its industry.

After long debate chinese troops are ordered to move towards inner defensive lines. See map for greater details.

Dave asked whether the move out of Changhsa was an intentional decision or bug... well it is intentional.

I know that I lost a lot of industrial assets than again I'am not able to defend these bases since he can move troops around swiftly due railway system. So for bad or worse this decision was made... now at least we should have better terrain and slower enemy troop movement.

Also he must garrison these bases or suffer penalties and even that takes some steam out of his advance.

Yellow arrows = Chinese movement
Red arrows = Japanese movement

Pacific (August 3rd 1942)

Intel screen....

Aircraft losses...

Fighter replacement pool...