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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:38 am
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
IMO, this is tantamount to conceding.
I don't think this is the case, as this a beefed up naval scenario 1 game and given the date. If it were scenario 2 and Japan increased the size of several (all) of the naval fighter squadrons to 81 planes...then perhaps it would be.
I believe M-M did supersize his NF groups (those that can) in your game making your night campaign significantly costlier. Even if he only used them as 1/3 of a unit it is still a great advantage.
I do not know if John did any supersizing of air squadrons.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am
by Canoerebel
7/20/44
Fletcher Raid, Kwangchowan: details below.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:23 am
by Canoerebel
7/20/44
SEAC: The noose is tightening around Bangkok, but I think John long, long ago gave up any notion of making a stand there.
Once Bangkok falls, the bulk of the Allied army will move east. I'll see if supply follows. I'll leave a few units in a blocking position SW of Bangkok, relying mostly on air power as a deterrent from John regaining offensive ambitions in the Malaya peninsula. He has some oomph down there, I think.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:29 am
by cardas
This is a post you made back in January 2016 about night bombing (
fb.asp?m=4015092 ).
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
John and I exchanged email last night and this a.m. about night bombing.
First, I asked him his intentions and understanding about it. He replied this way: "No Night Port Bombing. Avoided it but went after the AF previous turn. Fairly useless attempt..."
Then he modified this later in the nightt: "Have thought a lot about this topic and have decided to go with no night bombing PERIOD. Was going to go along the lines of no Port Bombing but then thought that that wasn’t consistent. Consider the issue settled. Am reasonably sure I changed everyone for this turn. I think..."
I replied this morning:
"When we originally discussed the issue of night bombing in 2013, our concerns came from widespread reports in the Forum that it was rather borked. Those reports might have been exaggerated or the issue might have been addressed in later patches. If so, let' discuss.
"There will come a time when Allied night bombing is historical and I'll want to use it. But if it's borked in some way then we'll need to address it then too.
"Of course, Japan did use night bombing. As I recall there were occasional Betty raids in the islands campaigns. They weren't large numbers, as I recall, nor were the particularly effective.
"So I'm open to discussing, but would like to make sure we're on the same page with the same understanding.
"So until further notice, neither of us is night bombing. But let's discuss if you wish to."
Unless night bombing is totally borked (I haven't heard anything of that sort in years, so I don't think it is), I intend to engage in it when I draw close enough to Japan to employ it. I'm sure the Allies used it in limited quantities earlier in the war, but I won't. Before I commence night bombing (perhaps months before), I'll let John know that I intend to use it historically (or, historically within the context of the game - meaning if I invade Okinawa tomorrow I'd consider using it). But if it does turn out to be borked, we'll address the issue then.
I'm not sure that it was entirely clear as to whether night bombing would ever be on the table again. On one hand, yes, you say you want to use it in the future. On the other hand the last quote you give us about what you sent to John is "So until further notice, neither of us is night bombing. But let's discuss if you wish to." - I could understand it if he took that as if night bombing wouldn't be allowed again, period.
Of course I'm not privy to all of what you've discussed about it. Still, this just underlines how important it is to double check that any house rules are understood in the same way. Especially in a long running game such as this ideally you'd both would have edited in any new house rules to the opening post of you AAR with identical wording. That way there would be no question as to what was agreed on X years ago. But then hindsight is 20/20.
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Trying to figure out when it's "safe" to bring the fleet from Legaspi to Manila.
Does anybody know the answer to this question?
From what I've seen CD guns will only fire at targets moving through a strait if the hex is owned by the same side as the CD guns. As for the dry firing you had experienced earlier that may be due to there not being any enemy mines left in the strait. You get the combat animation window but the CD guns won't fire unless there are mines around, almost certainly a bug with the game.
There's of course the risk that I'm wrong here but those are my experiences with CD guns defending straits.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:45 am
by Canoerebel
7/20/44
SoPac KB: Interesting KB raid developing in the Coral Sea, leaving that carrier force probably out of position for Peep Show.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:46 am
by Canoerebel
Thanks, Cardas, for sniffing that out. I spent an hour or so looking for it last night, without luck.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:51 am
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: cardas
Especially in a long running game such as this ideally you'd both would have edited in any new house rules to the opening post of you AAR with identical wording.
Excellent idea!
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:58 am
by Lowpe
What shipping is in Hong Kong....have no fear when it comes to small Fletcher task forces!
Lightnings are excellent LRCAP too, and will shred attackers. Perhaps it is the best use for Lightnings at this stage of the game.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:03 pm
by Canoerebel
7/20/44
Fun House and Peep Show: Is that KB moving down the China coast, or some ephemera exaggerated by naval search aircraft?
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:26 pm
by Canoerebel
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
What shipping is in Hong Kong....have no fear when it comes to small Fletcher task forces!
Lightnings are excellent LRCAP too, and will shred attackers. Perhaps it is the best use for Lightnings at this stage of the game.
NavSearch consistently reports only small craft at Hong Kong. I had SigInt that units were aboard ships bound for Hong Kong, but no sign that they're there yet.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:26 pm
by Lowpe
I have found that if you move less than full movement at cruise the better the damage control. 71 float damage is really scary, I would hop from base to base auto disbanding at each. No hurry I think.
The 1000 ship task force most likely shows up as major radio signals on Japan's sigint if he is looking.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:00 pm
by jwolf
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
71 float damage is really scary, I would hop from base to base auto disbanding at each.
What I find really irritating about this is that the ship usually gets put automatically in pierside mode after disbanding, when it has this much damage. Then you have to wait 3 days before trying to move it again. Makes for agonizingly slow movement toward a shipyard for the major repairs.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:02 pm
by HansBolter
The aviation support will double on the turn after the airfield reaches level 8. Check it again next turn.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:43 pm
by crsutton
Dan, you are going to win this one big time regardless of night bombing or not. I would not sweat it too much. I think that by late 44 your fighters are going to be close enough to the home islands to do John in anyways.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:56 pm
by Canoerebel
There is merit in Lowpe's suggestion, so CV Sumatra will advance another hex or two and then disband in a port. Let's see how that works.
Sumatra has 0/65/0 damage, with the 65 being all major FLT. When she left port yesterday, FLT increased to 71. So it's worth being careful.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:01 pm
by Canoerebel
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Dan, you are going to win this one big time regardless of night bombing or not. I would not sweat it too much. I think that by late 44 your fighters are going to be close enough to the home islands to do John in anyways.
We'll get a pretty good idea when Peep Show gets underway. Formosa is within range of Aparri, which will base Allied fighters, and Manila, which will handle the 4EB. The campaign will probably open soon, with concentrated sweeps and bombing missions versus one of the big Formosa airfields. John probably has a fair amount of AA, and I think he'll employ a lot of fighters. He has to.
I may counter by using bombardment TFs. Those may encounter mines or SSX or whatever. So I'll be prepared for that.
I'm "storing" subs at Manila. By the time the show opens, I'll have about 20-25 that'll tote mines up to the Formosa region, and lay them if and when KB or combat TFs make an appearance.
John has apparently decided that LBA and KB are sufficient to handle the Formosa defense campaign. Is he right? I don't think so. But it'll be a long, tough battle. I think Allied bombardments and bombings and sweeps can succeed, but my supply of top-notch fighters isn't inexhaustible. I think it'll be an interesting operation from that standpoint alone.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:38 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
IMO, this is tantamount to conceding.
I don't think this is the case, as this a beefed up naval scenario 1 game and given the date. If it were scenario 2 and Japan increased the size of several (all) of the naval fighter squadrons to 81 planes...then perhaps it would be.
I believe M-M did supersize his NF groups (those that can) in your game making your night campaign significantly costlier. Even if he only used them as 1/3 of a unit it is still a great advantage.
I do not know if John did any supersizing of air squadrons.
If you're playing Calvinball, you've lost [;)].
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:54 pm
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
If you're playing Calvinball, you've lost [;)].
Had to look that up![:D]
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:18 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
If you're playing Calvinball, you've lost [;)].
Had to look that up![:D]
A classic.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:57 pm
by Canoerebel
With SoPac KB confirmed far away, Peep Show will commence as soon as the amphibious ships arrive at Manila and can load. Embarkation date might be four or five days away.
That means my carriers won't upgrade, at least in the near term.
The form and extent of Peep Show is dependent on several variables that I won't know with certainty until the TFs get underway. I don't want to tip my hand. But suffice to say, there is a Blitzkrieg version and a West Front 1914 version. The latter invokes sustained air operations to soften up the targets ahead of amphibious assaults. The former involves moving in strength on vulnerable targets ASAP.
John's had enough time to figure things out, though SigInt still whispers the things I wish to hear. The answers will come in about five or six days.