Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: obermeister

Just wanted to say you all are doing a fantastic job with these unit writeups.  Are you really doing this kind of work for all 5000 or so units in the game?  Even the kind of detail being given to minor countries, wow!

All the 1000+ air units have been done.

~80% of the 1300+ naval units (those not done are mostly unnamed/generic)

~75% of the 1000+ land units.

I have done none of these writeups. They were all done by volunteers from this forum.

[Maesphil74]

Steve,

I said I would have the Czechs done this weekend.
Unfortunately due to a 2 month old baby and people calling in sick at work I had to work some nights and I'm working this weekend as well... [:(]

I'll have them asap!


Cheers,

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Fleming

Steve,

I said I would have the Czechs done this weekend.
Unfortunately due to a 2 month old baby and people calling in sick at work I had to work some nights and I'm working this weekend as well... [:(]

I'll have them asap!


Cheers,

Whatever works best for you.

[warspite1]

INFO REQUEST

There are three counters for the SHINANO and the KARYU with Id`s as follows:

SHINANO - 4339, 4371 and 5107
KARYU - 4333, 4364 and 5108

5107 and 5108 are the Mech in Flames counters but of the others, which is for the battleships and which is for the carriers?

Many thanks

[micheljq]

On the write up of the 1st MAR DIV, 6th paragraph : "But when when Japan", a little typo.  [:)]

[Mike Parker]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

INFO REQUEST

There are three counters for the SHINANO and the KARYU with Id`s as follows:

SHINANO - 4339, 4371 and 5107
KARYU - 4333, 4364 and 5108

5107 and 5108 are the Mech in Flames counters but of the others, which is for the battleships and which is for the carriers?

Many thanks

Not trying to be cute or anything.. but couldn't you look for the extra number that tells you the CVP class and tell which is the BB version and which the CV?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

ORIGINAL: warspite1

INFO REQUEST

There are three counters for the SHINANO and the KARYU with Id`s as follows:

SHINANO - 4339, 4371 and 5107
KARYU - 4333, 4364 and 5108

5107 and 5108 are the Mech in Flames counters but of the others, which is for the battleships and which is for the carriers?

Many thanks

Not trying to be cute or anything.. but couldn't you look for the extra number that tells you the CVP class and tell which is the BB version and which the CV?

Warspite 1

If you are being cute then its way to clever for me. I don`t understand what that means.

[brian brian]

the Shinano and Karyu were originally designed as BBs by the Japanese and then completed as CVs. (much like the first CVs built in the 20s by many powers were converted from battle cruiser hulls)

in WiF, a player can complete the ships as battleships, or after their first cycle of construction, can finish them as carriers. To make it a bit more confusing, with the latest set of counters one can complete them as 'super-carriers' with a higher plane capacity at a higher cost, or a smaller plane capacity at a lower cost. So in the final counter-mix, there are three different counters for each ship. However only one of the three can ever appear on the map.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

the Shinano and Karyu were originally designed as BBs by the Japanese and then completed as CVs. (much like the first CVs built in the 20s by many powers were converted from battle cruiser hulls)

in WiF, a player can complete the ships as battleships, or after their first cycle of construction, can finish them as carriers. To make it a bit more confusing, with the latest set of counters one can complete them as 'super-carriers' with a higher plane capacity at a higher cost, or a smaller plane capacity at a lower cost. So in the final counter-mix, there are three different counters for each ship. However only one of the three can ever appear on the map.

Warspite 1

Yes - but what I need to know is which Unit ID refers to the BB and which to the CV.

[brian brian]

oh I got lost in the quote tree there, I think you both already understand what I typed

if you know all of the counter #s for the other BBs and CVs you could probably deduce which is which? i.e. they should generally run sequentially by class like the actual cardboard counter sheets do?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: brian brian

the Shinano and Karyu were originally designed as BBs by the Japanese and then completed as CVs. (much like the first CVs built in the 20s by many powers were converted from battle cruiser hulls)

in WiF, a player can complete the ships as battleships, or after their first cycle of construction, can finish them as carriers. To make it a bit more confusing, with the latest set of counters one can complete them as 'super-carriers' with a higher plane capacity at a higher cost, or a smaller plane capacity at a lower cost. So in the final counter-mix, there are three different counters for each ship. However only one of the three can ever appear on the map.

Warspite 1

Yes - but what I need to know is which Unit ID refers to the BB and which to the CV.

In the MWIF data file "Standard Units Naval.CSV" all the naval units are listed in numeric order by unit #. One of the data fields in a unit's record is its unit type code. In Section 11 of the Players Manual (Appendices) are detailed descriptions of all the fields in all the data files, including the conversion of unit type codes to unit type names.

I could look these up for you, but this falls into the category of teaching someone how to fish rather than giving them a fish.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: brian brian

the Shinano and Karyu were originally designed as BBs by the Japanese and then completed as CVs. (much like the first CVs built in the 20s by many powers were converted from battle cruiser hulls)

in WiF, a player can complete the ships as battleships, or after their first cycle of construction, can finish them as carriers. To make it a bit more confusing, with the latest set of counters one can complete them as 'super-carriers' with a higher plane capacity at a higher cost, or a smaller plane capacity at a lower cost. So in the final counter-mix, there are three different counters for each ship. However only one of the three can ever appear on the map.

Warspite 1

Yes - but what I need to know is which Unit ID refers to the BB and which to the CV.

In the MWIF data file "Standard Units Naval.CSV" all the naval units are listed in numeric order by unit #. One of the data fields in a unit's record is its unit type code. In Section 11 of the Players Manual (Appendices) are detailed descriptions of all the fields in all the data files, including the conversion of unit type codes to unit type names.

I could look these up for you, but this falls into the category of teaching someone how to fish rather than giving them a fish.

Warspite1

Found it!! thanks Steve [:)] - I did tell you I was rubbish with computers and files and stuff [X(]

[warspite1]

ANOTHER INFO REQUEST

In the Mech in Flames expansion there are two Dutch vessels named Gouden Leeuw (both with a start date of 1940) and a third call Van Oranje. One of the Gouden Leeuw`s has Van Oranje written on the back in italics.

In the MWIF Naval.txt master file there is only one Gouden Leeuw. There is no Orange Box on the back of any of these counters so I am completely at a loss as to why there is two Gouden Leeuw`s but only one unit ID. What is the significance of the italics?

Any idea?

Many thanks

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ANOTHER INFO REQUEST

In the Mech in Flames expansion there are two Dutch vessels named Gouden Leeuw (both with a start date of 1940) and a third call Van Oranje. One of the Gouden Leeuw`s has Van Oranje written on the back in italics.

In the MWIF Naval.txt master file there is only one Gouden Leeuw. There is no Orange Box on the back of any of these counters so I am completely at a loss as to why there is two Gouden Leeuw`s but only one unit ID. What is the significance of the italics?

Any idea?

The Gouden Leeuw with the Van Oranje on its back is the WiF Classic scaled ship. It represents the 2 ships. The name in Italic on the back is simply the second ship on the counter.
The other Gouden Leeuw is the SiF scaled ship. In this scale (the one MWiF uses), each counter is 1 ship (with some DDs).

That's why MWiF only have the 2 latests.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ANOTHER INFO REQUEST

In the Mech in Flames expansion there are two Dutch vessels named Gouden Leeuw (both with a start date of 1940) and a third call Van Oranje. One of the Gouden Leeuw`s has Van Oranje written on the back in italics.

In the MWIF Naval.txt master file there is only one Gouden Leeuw. There is no Orange Box on the back of any of these counters so I am completely at a loss as to why there is two Gouden Leeuw`s but only one unit ID. What is the significance of the italics?

Any idea?

The Gouden Leeuw with the Van Oranje on its back is the WiF Classic scaled ship. It represents the 2 ships. The name in Italic on the back is simply the second ship on the counter.
The other Gouden Leeuw is the SiF scaled ship. In this scale (the one MWiF uses), each counter is 1 ship (with some DDs).

That's why MWiF only have the 2 latests.

Warspite 1

I knew you would have the answer Patrice! Many thanks.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I knew you would have the answer Patrice! Many thanks.

Thanks to you for the research about the naval units !
By the way no need for me to copy this answer to the developpement forum, is it ?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I knew you would have the answer Patrice! Many thanks.

Have you had your answer for the Shinano and Karyu counters ?
In fact, there are 2 different possible upgrade for each of those ships.
So there is 1 BB Shinano, and 2 replacement CV Shinano. An historical one (class 3) and a what if one (class 6). Same for the Karyu. You can only choose one replacement.

[Mike Parker]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

If you are being cute then its way to clever for me. I don`t understand what that means.

I just meant that when one looks at a ship counter, there is one telling difference between a BB and a CV. That telling difference is that the CV will have a number on it that denotes the class of CVP that the carrier can well.. carry The BB Shinano will NOT have this number while the CV will.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I knew you would have the answer Patrice! Many thanks.

Have you had your answer for the Shinano and Karyu counters ?
In fact, there are 2 different possible upgrade for each of those ships.
So there is 1 BB Shinano, and 2 replacement CV Shinano. An historical one (class 3) and a what if one (class 6). Same for the Karyu. You can only choose one replacement.

Warspite 1

Yes - I got the answer from Steve telling me where to look - please see attached first draft at describing these counters

[5108 Karyu - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 150,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 27 knots
.B Main armament: 16 x 5-inch (127mm), 145 x 25mm AA guns
.B Aircraft: 47
.B Displacement (Full Load): 71,890 tons
.B Thickest armour: 8.1-inch (belt)
.P This is a World In Flames "what if" counter. Karyu was originally
designed as a Yamato-class battleship (see Counter 4364). However in 1942, when
only 30% complete she was broken up. During construction, her sister ship
Shinano was converted to an aircraft carrier and so the technical details above
reflect how Karyu would have appeared if she too had been completed to the same
specification.
.P Shinano`s role was that of a support ship for the fleet carriers and in
addition to forty-seven of her own aircraft, she also had hangar space for an
additional twenty-three aircraft. These aircraft were able to call upon an
impressive 158,000 Imperial Gallons of aviation fuel.
.P She would have featured a 3-inch armoured flight deck between her two lifts,
serving a single hangar. Although her belt armour would have been retained, it
was half the thickness envisaged in her battleship design. Her magazines and
machinery spaces would have been covered by armour plate 7.5-inch thick.
.P She would have featured a strong anti-aircraft defence, supported by no less
than thirty-three triple 25mm guns and a further twelve multi-barrelled rocket
launchers for close-range defence.
.P World In Flames also allows the Japanese player to build Karyu as a more
powerful "what if" carrier (see Counter 4333).

[4364 Karyu - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 150,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 27 knots
.B Main armament: 9 x 18.1-inch (460mm), 12 x 6.1-inch (155mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 69,990 tons
.B Thickest armour: 16.1-inch (belt)
.P This is a World In Flames "what if" counter. Known as ship No.111, the name
Karyu was never offically given to what would have been the fourth of the Yamato
-class battleships. She was ordered, along with Shinano in 1939 but Karyu was to
be broken up in 1942 when only 30% complete.
.P The Yamato and Musashi were the largest battleships ever built, mounting an
impressive 18.1-inch main armament in three triple turrets. It is likely that
Karyu would have differed slightly from her completed sisters, with thinner
armour but an increased anti-aircraft (AA) armament. However the enhanced AA
weaponry fitted to Yamato in 1943 could not save her from her ultimate fate and
neither of the completed ships had a chance to make much of an impact in the war
before being sunk. It is unlikely that Karyu`s fate would have been any
different.
.P World In Flames also gives the Japanese player the option to complete Karyu
as an aircraft carrier (see Counters 4333 and 5108).

Counter 4333 needs some work as its an entirely fictional proposition - I`ll give that some thought. I`ve given similar treatment to the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau replacement counters:

[5106 Scharnhorst - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 165,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 32 knots
.B Main armament: 9 x 11-inch (280mm), 12 x 5.9-inch (150mm) guns
.B Displacement (Full Load): 38,900 tons
.B Thickest armor: 13.75-inches (belt)
.P This is a World In Flames "what if" counter that allows the German player
to upgrade the Gneisenau`s 11-inch main armament to a 15-inch gun.
.P The Scharnhorst and her sister Gneisenau were originally intended to be
better armoured versions of the Deutschland-class pocket-battleships. They would
still mount an 11-inch main gun, although in three twin turrets rather than two.
After the signing of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement in June 1935, Adolf Hitler
wanted to increase the main armament to a 15-inch (381mm) gun in order that the
battlecruisers main armament would compare with that of British capital ships.
However, this would mean their introduction would be delayed by up to two years
and this was not something Hitler could afford to do, given his territorial
ambitions.
.P The two ships were therefore completed as heavily armoured battlescruisers
with a plan to upgrade their main armament at the first opportunity. As it
turned out, the upgrade never happened and the two ships remained with their
original main armament throughout their life.
.P Please see Counter 4771 for brief details of the Scharnhorst`s service record
in World War II.

[warspite1]

INFO REQUEST

Sorry but in the interests of trying to save research time I will be posting these requests as they crop up.

There is Soviet counter in Cruisers in Flames called Volga. I can see no record of this cruiser having been in existence or indeed planned. Can anyone shed any light on its existence please?

Thank you