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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:15 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Termite2
HK starts with 160 HI and 220 LI in this scenario, it is a lot bigger than Canton.
HK is also worth a lot of VPs for either player, so if John has been trying to rack up VPs to stave off Allied Auto-Victory, losing HK will hurt him a lot. And if HK goes, Canton is in jeopardy too.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:40 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
(Actually, HK has a slightly larger shipyard than Manila's).
I confess that I don't know why John would fight for Hong Kong. It's no more valuable at this point than many other bases, either from a utility (shipyard/airfield) standpoint or from a VP standpoint. Manila was far more important. So is Foochow. So I don't think he'd react to a move on HK.
I still think there's a decent chance he'll move to intercede in the Formosa campaign.
HK is the door to Canton. I think Canton is industrially important. A JFB might disagree.
Yes, plus denying it to the Allies.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:57 pm
by Canoerebel
In all probability, the Allies will eventually take everything on the coast south of Foochow. With one army moving up from Vietnam, the Chinese army growing, and the western Allies firmly lodged at Foochow and Amoy, the Japanese position should be tenuous. Tenuous, that is, once I have enough supply to allow bombing.
For now, I don't have the supply or the troops to engage in a major move further into China. I'm making noise, simply because I don't want John to guess that most of my western units are going to pack up and ship out for Formosa within about three weeks. I'll hold Amoy (because I don't want John to have a big airfield near Formosa) and Foochow (because I intend to use it as a key strategic bombing center going forward).
So Hong Kong and Canton will be targeted but not in the short term.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:02 pm
by Canoerebel
8/11/44
KB & DS: No carrier intercept today, but KB is moving back into the DEI. While John probably has the Victory Point angle figured out, there's no doubt that militarily I'd much rather see his carriers in the DEI than around Formosa.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:25 pm
by Canoerebel
8/11/44
Peep Show & SEAC: The Allies are making progress in Indochina and China. Really, though, most of these theaters are secondary to Foochow (future strategic bombing base) and Formosa.
Right now, my air forces are focusing primarily on Formosa. Eventually I want to use them in China and Indochina, but only after Formosa wraps up (and that's fine, because I'd need supply before I could do anything anyway).
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:11 pm
by witpqs
That armored attack west of Amoy was still important because it keeps up the disruption of those retreated troops. In fact, if that unit can manage to continue attacking until other units arrive that would be best. But of course not if doing so trashes the unit.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:17 am
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
In all probability, the Allies will eventually take everything on the coast south of Foochow. With one army moving up from Vietnam, the Chinese army growing, and the western Allies firmly lodged at Foochow and Amoy, the Japanese position should be tenuous. Tenuous, that is, once I have enough supply to allow bombing.
For now, I don't have the supply or the troops to engage in a major move further into China. I'm making noise, simply because I don't want John to guess that most of my western units are going to pack up and ship out for Formosa within about three weeks. I'll hold Amoy (because I don't want John to have a big airfield near Formosa) and Foochow (because I intend to use it as a key strategic bombing center going forward).
So Hong Kong and Canton will be targeted but not in the short term.
In my last campaign once I got a foot hold in Southern China, there was little my opponent could do about it. Just no way the Japanese can fight vs the Allies in open terrain, and it is all pretty much open terrain. Great tank country. This is especially true if there are not restrictions on the Allies about bombing Japanese units in the open.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:30 am
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
In all probability, the Allies will eventually take everything on the coast south of Foochow. With one army moving up from Vietnam, the Chinese army growing, and the western Allies firmly lodged at Foochow and Amoy, the Japanese position should be tenuous. Tenuous, that is, once I have enough supply to allow bombing.
For now, I don't have the supply or the troops to engage in a major move further into China. I'm making noise, simply because I don't want John to guess that most of my western units are going to pack up and ship out for Formosa within about three weeks. I'll hold Amoy (because I don't want John to have a big airfield near Formosa) and Foochow (because I intend to use it as a key strategic bombing center going forward).
So Hong Kong and Canton will be targeted but not in the short term.
In my last campaign once I got a foot hold in Southern China, there was little my opponent could do about it. Just no way the Japanese can fight vs the Allies in open terrain, and it is all pretty much open terrain. Great tank country. This is especially true if there are not restrictions on the Allies about bombing Japanese units in the open.
It can be done, but it takes everything Japan has...15 or so good AA units and lots of Tank Divisions, artillery and IJA heavy divisions. However you can only stick around for a few days....unless it is a large air base and you are willing to put up a 300 plane CAP. And of course while Japan has that single stack festung, the Allies simply bypass it and cut off the supply.
Not pleasant.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:44 am
by Canoerebel
8/11/44
Preparing for China: When Rangoon and Moulmein fell, the Allies rolled into Thailand and on to Bangkok, and the entire campaign took on the character of a route.
At that point, deciding which targets to prepare for became a challenge. Where would John make a stand? How could I minimize the chances that I'd prep for a target that John wouldn't even defend?
I chose mainly two targets: Saigon and Canton. The southern, more advanced half of my SEAC units would head for southern Indochina; the northern half would move towards Vinh and eventually, I hoped, into China.
Whether I chose right remains to be seen.
This image shows the northern stack, which will arrive at Vinh tomorrow. Notice that I didn't really bother to prep for Hanoi and Haiphong. I'm not yet sure if that was the right call.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:21 am
by JohnDillworth
How do your Chinese units look? You should have at least a few filled out formations by this time. There AV numbers can get pretty high
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:41 am
by Canoerebel
I have 3500+ '43 Chinese squads in the pools. Only a few of my units are swapping over to them, partly because the supply has only recently begun to flow; partly because most of my Chinese army is in non-base hexes. I'll be addressing this.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:16 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
(Actually, HK has a slightly larger shipyard than Manila's).
I confess that I don't know why John would fight for Hong Kong. It's no more valuable at this point than many other bases, either from a utility (shipyard/airfield) standpoint or from a VP standpoint. Manila was far more important. So is Foochow. So I don't think he'd react to a move on HK.
I still think there's a decent chance he'll move to intercede in the Formosa campaign.
HK is the door to Canton. I think Canton is industrially important. A JFB might disagree.
It isn't, really. Also, Canton has an enormous garrison requirement so is easier to defend heavily.
Hong Kong would be useful simply because it has a large port and you could quickly dump lots of supplies into China.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:34 pm
by Canoerebel
8/12/44
Peep Show: For the moment, the Allies have control of the air over Formosa. A US division will attack west of Amoy tomorrow.
Indochina: Important Allied attacks tomorrow a hex NW of Saigon and at Vinh.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:49 pm
by Canoerebel
8/12/44
DEI, KB & DS: John may think he'll be leading Death Star on a merry chase into the DEI...but DS is playing it's own game to the northwest while the massive resupply TFs are playing another game to the east. John has no detection on the latter, and if he doesn't figure out what's going on within one or two turns, KB may be out of position to contest the move. (If it does move to contest, that'll trigger DS to advance into the DEI to intervene.)
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:27 pm
by MakeeLearn
Look for your supply usage in China to increase by x4.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:53 pm
by Mike McCreery
I found supply in china to be no problem if you drop 4 million tons on a railhead.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:42 pm
by BillBrown
I think I mentioned this before Dan. The F4U-1A stays in production until 6/45, same as the F4U-1D.
So your F4U production will be triple what it is now. 78 + 158 = 236 per month.
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm
by Mike McCreery
ORIGINAL: BillBrown
I think I mentioned this before Dan. The F4U-1A stays in production until 6/45, same as the F4U-1D.
So your F4U production will be triple what it is now. 78 + 158 = 236 per month.
Dat's alot of FU's ;]
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:44 pm
by Lowpe
Are the 2nd division and company moving out into open territory? I can't tell if there is a movement pip to the east...plus how much did you bomb them to find out what they are? Near LangSon (one of my favorite bases in the game).
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:10 pm
by Canoerebel
They're moving into China, but John may shy away from open terrain. He's probably learned by now that isn't a good habitat for his guys.
I haven't bombed them, except one Brit fighter-bomber squadron that hit them (no damage) a few times to knock them out of movement mode and reveal the identity of the units.