Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI?

I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed).

What's special about the GR.VI?

Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location

You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes.

Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29.

The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them.

You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes.

Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29.

The British have some neat fun

WAIT


The PB4Y-1 (B-24) Liberator Squadrons can night search, so can the Liberator GR.VI?

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI?

I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed).

What's special about the GR.VI?

Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location

You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes.

Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29.

The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them.

No, 12000 & 22000lbs, the RAF was dropping them some 70 years before THOAB, and almost as accurately.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI?

I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed).

What's special about the GR.VI?

Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location

You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes.

Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29.

The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them.

I don't think radar does anything for bombing accuracy.

I can't help but suspect that John is short of fuel around the home islands. With your penetration effectively cutting his conquests in two and insuring that no more oil is going to flow from his production centers to Japan, I'm betting he's afraid to move KB too far from his fuel supplies lest it get cut off and starved out of the war.

He's done a lot of steaming around with KB, so I can't imagine he's been able to build up a huge stockpile of fuel in Japan. That would explain why he's seems to be so committed to keeping KB in the south even with the building pressure up north.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI?

I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed).

What's special about the GR.VI?

The Brit/CW GR ('General Reconnaisance') are conceptually naval patrol aircraft along the lines of the US PB4Y etc, hence the radar - the Liberator GR.III I think also drops the armour but the others not. The key thing is that you get less than half the bombload (8*250lb vs 10*500lb) so they're only so destructive - of course, if the range is the difference between bombing and not...

ORIGINAL: DW
I can't help but suspect that John is short of fuel around the home islands. With your penetration effectively cutting his conquests in two and insuring that no more oil is going to flow from his production centers to Japan, I'm betting he's afraid to move KB too far from his fuel supplies lest it get cut off and starved out of the war.

He's done a lot of steaming around with KB, so I can't imagine he's been able to build up a huge stockpile of fuel in Japan. That would explain why he's seems to be so committed to keeping KB in the south even with the building pressure up north.

This could well be the case.

Once the Formosa campaign is complete, I'll turn to the DEI. Many troops are 100% prepped for targets like Balikpapan and Singapore, though I may choose something that has more room for maneuver and bombing, like Java. DS will assist with that operation, which will be designed to fragment John's positions in the DEI, while also exposing his remaining ports to bombing raids.

8/18/44

Peep Show: The self-destruction of the Japanese army at Chaochow is the focal point in China today.

SEAC: In Indochina, the northernmost Allied stack beats back the battered Japanese stack. There's nothing blocking the Allied advance to Hanoi/Haiphong.

8/18/44

KB, DS & the DEI: While KB pulls into Ketapang, DS is refueling at Sorong and Mini DS is halfway between Merauke and Boela.

Thanks Lokasenna and IJV for the info.

Air radar = "On Plane Radar" Or "looks for plane radar" (???) hmmmm... seems to help with Bomber co-ordination at night:
73. Tweak Bomber co-ordination at night depends on skill, moon and air radar; complements above fix to CAP




CR

I was not criticizing your use of GR.VI, I was wanting to know if you were bombing with a specific strategy. As you say the Japanese are "helping you" at Chaochow.

Your comment came across as an expression of surprise that I had used the GR.VI in that way, and as an inquiry to find out if there was a method to my madness. There wasn't, so I had to point out that I was ignorant.

I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game, but I am pretty ignorant of what goes on under the hood. Some players love to look at airplanes stats or figure out how the AI resolves particular types of combat. I'm not good at digesting and understanding that kind of information, so I don't do it. That can work to my disadvantage, as in this case where I didn't know: (1) the GR.VI carries a lighter load; (2) has radar; and (3) is night bomber. Now I know, and more importantly it'll prompt me to take a closer look at all those other classes of Brit 4EB (I wondered why there were endless varieties with about three in the pools, at best).

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI?

I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed).

What's special about the GR.VI?

It is Naval Search Radar which raises the DL. Also it only carries 250 pound bombs vs the usuall 500 pounders. Best for naval search and ASW work.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Your comment came across as an expression of surprise that I had used the GR.VI in that way, and as an inquiry to find out if there was a method to my madness. There wasn't, so I had to point out that I was ignorant.

I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game, but I am pretty ignorant of what goes on under the hood. Some players love to look at airplanes stats or figure out how the AI resolves particular types of combat. I'm not good at digesting and understanding that kind of information, so I don't do it. That can work to my disadvantage, as in this case where I didn't know: (1) the GR.VI carries a lighter load; (2) has radar; and (3) is night bomber. Now I know, and more importantly it'll prompt me to take a closer look at all those other classes of Brit 4EB (I wondered why there were endless varieties with about three in the pools, at best).

Ive been using The "Aircraft Comparison" section of WitPTracker to get info when not playing and been concentrating on radar equipped planes. Don't know why they never put radar on B17s in the Pacific. I try to have B17s and PBYs together, let the B17 do day and most of the PBYS do night.
As Lowpe pointed out the Brits do get some interesting bombers.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Your comment came across as an expression of surprise that I had used the GR.VI in that way, and as an inquiry to find out if there was a method to my madness. There wasn't, so I had to point out that I was ignorant.

I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game, but I am pretty ignorant of what goes on under the hood. Some players love to look at airplanes stats or figure out how the AI resolves particular types of combat. I'm not good at digesting and understanding that kind of information, so I don't do it. That can work to my disadvantage, as in this case where I didn't know: (1) the GR.VI carries a lighter load; (2) has radar; and (3) is night bomber. Now I know, and more importantly it'll prompt me to take a closer look at all those other classes of Brit 4EB (I wondered why there were endless varieties with about three in the pools, at best).

Ive been using The "Aircraft Comparison" section of WitPTracker to get info when not playing and been concentrating on radar equipped planes. Don't know why they never put radar on B17s in the Pacific. I try to have B17s and PBYs together, let the B17 do day and most of the PBYS do night.
As Lowpe pointed out the Brits do get some interesting bombers.

Primarily because by the time radar came along in adequate numbers they just did not need the B17 for that purpose. The Liberator proved to be a much more adaptable long rang patrol bomber than the B17. Because the wing of the B17 went through the aircraft whereas the liberator's wings did not the liberator had a much larger and more versatile bomb bay. Also, the liberator was much more suited for extra fuel tanks for long range missions. The B17's history in the Pacific was limited and fairly short. It was being phased out at the time air borne radar was being phased in. Otherwise the B17 was a very good and reliable patrol bomber and used for that purpose before the liberator replaced it.

Canoerebel

I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game...

That's one of the great things about WitPAE - there are so many aspects to it, each with it's own depth of application in the game. Always something new to learn in both breadth and depth.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Your comment came across as an expression of surprise that I had used the GR.VI in that way, and as an inquiry to find out if there was a method to my madness. There wasn't, so I had to point out that I was ignorant.

I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game, but I am pretty ignorant of what goes on under the hood. Some players love to look at airplanes stats or figure out how the AI resolves particular types of combat. I'm not good at digesting and understanding that kind of information, so I don't do it. That can work to my disadvantage, as in this case where I didn't know: (1) the GR.VI carries a lighter load; (2) has radar; and (3) is night bomber. Now I know, and more importantly it'll prompt me to take a closer look at all those other classes of Brit 4EB (I wondered why there were endless varieties with about three in the pools, at best).

Ive been using The "Aircraft Comparison" section of WitPTracker to get info when not playing and been concentrating on radar equipped planes. Don't know why they never put radar on B17s in the Pacific. I try to have B17s and PBYs together, let the B17 do day and most of the PBYS do night.
As Lowpe pointed out the Brits do get some interesting bombers.

Primarily because by the time radar came along in adequate numbers they just did not need the B17 for that purpose. The Liberator proved to be a much more adaptable long rang patrol bomber than the B17. Because the wing of the B17 went through the aircraft whereas the liberator's wings did not the liberator had a much larger and more versatile bomb bay. Also, the liberator was much more suited for extra fuel tanks for long range missions. The B17's history in the Pacific was limited and fairly short. It was being phased out at the time air borne radar was being phased in. Otherwise the B17 was a very good and reliable patrol bomber and used for that purpose before the liberator replaced it.

Informative, thanks. I guess it was asking too much for the B17 to be the Belle of Europe and the Pacific. The B17 was pushed as bomber to hit shipping in the discussions to get it into production, however the B24 does have more of a seafaring look to it. Very PBY-ish. Versatility - The B24 was even fitted with a new tail section - Consolidated PB4Y-2 Privateer. And Ive seen pics of a B24 with A B17 nose section.

Actually GR stands for General Reconnaissance - equipped with radar it is actually the Naval Search/ASW platform.
Reduced Bomb load - for longer range
Reduced armament - you dont need gun sticking out of the every hole you have - simply because you probably wont find that many fighters deep over the sea.

Liberator GR marks are just that - Naval Search planes. Belly turret was not necessary because they would fly low and dive down to deck to prevent enemy fighters attacks from below. A forward, top and rear turret is just about what would really be necessary.
Same goes for PB4Y Liberators/Privateers and PV-1 Ventura/PV-2 Harpoon - Usually armed more lightly than regular bombers, long range patrol planes equipped with radar for day/night search.

In game the Radar carried gives chance to detect and get higher DL on naval targets. Of course actually most of the players here are using these planes just like the regular bombers flying daily bombing mission of whatever is in range. Try to put them to the work they were made for e.g. those jap subs near Boela... put a Liberator GR/PB4Y on ASW mission and let them work. You will get rid of those subs quickly.

8/19/44

Peep Show: The Allies take Chaochow, basically eliminating all enemy resistances between Hong Kong and Wenchow.

DEI: Death Star continuing to refuel at Sorong while waiting for Mini DS to come up. KB seems bound for the South China Sea.

I'm very interested in seeing how the night bombing attack(s) go.

Thanks for the discussion about the best use of certain planes. I try to find the 'best' use of ships and planes (also full or busy hands) and every little bit helps.

Concur with dave, looking forward to night bombing.

A most famous quote - "If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles"
applies here too... know your tools, and know that of your enemies ... And use them appropriately. [;)]