Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: TenChiMato

Beware of paras attacks on non base hexes as he already did in India. Timed with massed assaults thanks to river crossing and armored rgt shockatttack+pursue he would be able to destroy most of your army at Hengchow-Changsha by forcing it to retreat on non rail/road hexes.Suggest you evacuate Changsha now and secure river crossing northwest of it. If he cut this road while he drives hard toward Kweiling you will lose the whole central zone.

Oh, if he wants to do that i really cannot do anything about it...he can use his paras everywhere in China in that way...
However i'm waiting to save the last 1200 AVs that are coming out of Nanchang before leaving Changsha...

However i asked him not to do that this time in China...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/28/42

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TF 39 encounters mine field at Karachi (21,3)

TF 39 troops unloading over beach at Karachi, 21,3


Japanese Ships
MSW W.18
MSW W.15
MSW W.12
MSW W.9
MSW W.8
MSW W.7
MSW W.6
MSW W.4
MSW W.3
MSW W.2
PG Iwate
AP Kenbu Maru, Mine hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
PG Idzumo

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Coastal Guns at Karachi, 21,3, firing at TF 39
291 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AP Unyo Maru #2, Shell hits 2
PG Idzumo, Shell hits 8

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported


Again???[&:][&:][&:]

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TF 1046 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

7 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DMS Long, Shell hits 1

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TF 1057 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DMS Hovey

mmmmm....a lot of mines at Ponape....[:o]
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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-49 Helen x 136
Ki-46-II Dinah x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 3 destroyed, 27 damaged


Allied ground losses:
282 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 41
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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
Ki-21-II Sally x 122
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-II Sally: 5 destroyed, 22 damaged


Allied ground losses:
120 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 100

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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
G3M Nell x 98
G4M1 Betty x 156

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 29 damaged


Allied ground losses:
154 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 21
Airbase supply hits 12
Runway hits 165



My flak at Karachi did a great job today![:)]
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Ground combat at Nanchang

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 26039 troops, 84 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 416

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese max assault: 794 - adjusted assault: 387

Allied max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 387 to 1 (fort level 6)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Nanchang base !!!


Empty...good[:'(]

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Ground combat at Karachi

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 96083 troops, 1022 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2714

Defending force 133095 troops, 785 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2733


Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

This useless bombardment was cause by his landings....6000 supplies burnt[:@]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
This useless bombardment was cause by his landings....6000 supplies burnt[:@]

The supplies aren’t all burned up G.H., combat increases your units daily supply requirements by about 50%-100%. So check your units, they probably pulled the 6,000 supplies to meet requirements and will dump most of it back into the base after a turn or two of no combats.

Air bombardment of units also increases their daily supply usage, but airstrikes and naval bombardments on the base or port shouldn’t increase your unit’s daily usage demands.

Jim

Edit: To get an idea of how much extra supply these attacks actually burn up, total your units on-hand supply and divide it by 30. Then do that again when their daily usage drops and compare the two numbers. Your units use 1/30th of their on-hand supply each day. So the difference between the two numbers is the amount of extra supplies these attacks cause you to burn each day (plus whatever the ground combat itself burns up when your equipment items fire at his attackers).

I do not understand the supply usage here. Karachi suffered 25 supply hits. So why don't you lose more supplies? If the rule "1% per supply hit" was correct, these hits should burn more than 40k!

I think you should constandly keep his Aden picket line busy. This is his "alarm bell", and you should make it ring at least once every week. Send ASW ships, send the CVs to sink another picket ship, let his Glens spot some of your AKs etc. pp. Even if you don't plan any concrete action at the moment, this will probably pay dividents in the future. Without those frequent false alarms, you will never be able to surprise him with anything from Aden.

Hi all.
For what concerns paras in China, the answer initially was "NO". Then, after a long and difficult discussion we've found a deal. No paras in non-base hex but i have to retreat from the northern part of China (so to say Kaifeng and Yengtu).
I was retreating anyway from there so i told him that if he doesn't agree with my request of no-paras it doesn't matter. I'll keep on playing, knowing that the threat is lingering there.
 
One more thing guys.
As i ask you some time ago i must re-request you to refrain yourself from any comment about Trollelite behaviour, play-style or whatever you think of him. Please. He cannot read this thread and so he cannot defend himself. So i find myself in the horrible position to be caught in the middle of two fire-guns...have to defend you readers from his complaints (because he knows what you think of his game-style) and defend him from your attacks here....
I ask you this because i'd like to stick this AAR only on a strategical and tactical point of view.
 
Hope you understand.
 
Thx

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

I do not understand the supply usage here. Karachi suffered 25 supply hits. So why don't you lose more supplies? If the rule "1% per supply hit" was correct, these hits should burn more than 40k!

I think you should constandly keep his Aden picket line busy. This is his "alarm bell", and you should make it ring at least once every week. Send ASW ships, send the CVs to sink another picket ship, let his Glens spot some of your AKs etc. pp. Even if you don't plan any concrete action at the moment, this will probably pay dividents in the future. Without those frequent false alarms, you will never be able to surprise him with anything from Aden.

Bogo, simply i think that rules has never worked. Supply consumption is a complete mistery!!!! Holy Graal!

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
This useless bombardment was cause by his landings....6000 supplies burnt[:@]

The supplies aren’t all burned up G.H., combat increases your units daily supply requirements by about 50%-100%. So check your units, they probably pulled the 6,000 supplies to meet requirements and will dump most of it back into the base after a turn or two of no combats.

Air bombardment of units also increases their daily supply usage, but airstrikes and naval bombardments on the base or port shouldn’t increase your unit’s daily usage demands.

Jim

Edit: To get an idea of how much extra supply these attacks actually burn up, total your units on-hand supply and divide it by 30. Then do that again when their daily usage drops and compare the two numbers. Your units use 1/30th of their on-hand supply each day. So the difference between the two numbers is the amount of extra supplies these attacks cause you to burn each day (plus whatever the ground combat itself burns up when your equipment items fire at his attackers).

mmmm...i'll try to figure it out Jim...will do a deep check next turn!
Thanks mate![;)]

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

I do not understand the supply usage here. Karachi suffered 25 supply hits. So why don't you lose more supplies? If the rule "1% per supply hit" was correct, these hits should burn more than 40k!

I think you should constandly keep his Aden picket line busy. This is his "alarm bell", and you should make it ring at least once every week. Send ASW ships, send the CVs to sink another picket ship, let his Glens spot some of your AKs etc. pp. Even if you don't plan any concrete action at the moment, this will probably pay dividents in the future. Without those frequent false alarms, you will never be able to surprise him with anything from Aden.

I *think* the 1% rule should be read as possibly causing up to 1%. So a supply hit on a base with 10000 supplies could cause anywhere from 0-100 supplies to be destroyed depending on die rolls. Only someone with knowledge of the code could confirm this, but it makes sense given what we see happening in games.

I know in my current PBEM game, my Manila supplies dried up a lot faster than I am used to seeing them go down. Singapore on the other hand took a lot longer to kill off the supplies than usual, so I think it's simply the luck of the dice when it come to how much of that 1% gets destroyed.

Also don't forget his base is producing supplies every day (less now that it is occupied, but it still produces 200 a day I think), so some of what gets killed gets replaced each turn, so it mitigates the damage caused somewhat.

Jim

There could also be some sort of cap in the software on the number of supplies that can be destroyed per hit or per turn.  So at bases with lots and lots of supply, individual hits are limited to less than 1%. 
 
It would also make sense that fortification level was taken into account in the supplies lost per hit, too.  The Allies bombed Rabaul heavily for a long time once it was isolated, and the Japanese still had quite a bit of supplies when it surrendered at the end of the war.  Many of the supply dumps had been moved underground where they were safe from bombing (or theoretically drive-by style bombardments although there weren't really any performed).  Not saying that the game does take forts into consideration, but it would make sense if it did.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/29/42

A bad day.

At Karachi his BBs are back hammering the place and causing a massive distruption.
SS Sturgeon, that was laying mines there, tried to attack the enemy ships but got pounded and now he's going back to Aden...but the damage is very hard and i doubt he'll make it.

At Ponape my DMSs today got hit hard by his CD guns, which, after 2 weeks of heavy bombings, are still firing hard and precise!
3 important ships are now out of order...[:@]
However we're almost ready to attack Ponape!

In China...well, we had the deal: he's not going to use his paras in non-base hexes and i retire from the northern sectors (Kaifeng and Yangku).....

However we've almost saved the Nanchang army...but now Whochow is really in danger...i doubt i'll be able to save it...We'll have to get back and shrink our perimeter...it will be a pain...

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TF 39 encounters mine field at Karachi (21,3)
He swept almost 500 mines in a single day[&:][:o]

Japanese Ships
MSW W.18
MSW W.15
MSW W.12
MSW W.9
MSW W.8
MSW W.7
MSW W.6
MSW W.4
MSW W.3
MSW W.2
AP Kashiwa Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire

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Sub attack at 20,3

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
DD Inazuma
DD Kasumi
DD Arashio
DD Michishio
DD Oshio

Allied Ships
SS Sturgeon, hits 6, on fire[:@][:@][:@]...torpedo got dude again[:(]

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TF 1097 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

13 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DMS Lamberton, Shell hits 1...ouch[:@]

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TF 1102 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

14 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DMS Dorsey, Shell hits 2, on fire...ouch[:@]

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TF 1131 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

17 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage..double ouch!!!![:(]

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Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro
BB Hyuga
BB Mutsu
BB Kongo


Allied ground losses:
6340 casualties reported
Guns lost 128
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 62
Port hits 4
Port supply hits 2



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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Ki-49 Helen x 133
Ki-46-II Dinah x 6

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PBY Catalina: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 33

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Day Air attack on Kwajalein , at 81,84

His flak is still working well here....[:@]

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 20
B-25C Mitchell x 41
B-26B Marauder x 46


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 31
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1


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Ground combat at Changsha

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 403140 troops, 2162 guns, 27 vehicles, Assault Value = 9379...*35 units are back at Changsha, while 44 are advancing towards Whochow...[:(]*

Defending force 166676 troops, 814 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4241



Allied ground losses:
381 casualties reported

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/30/42


And then it comes the CAs' turn at Karachi....Which now has 274,000 supplies...still enough
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Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Furutaka
CA Nachi
CA Haguro
CA Myoko
CA Tone


Allied ground losses:
1695 casualties reported
Guns lost 18

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 73
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 6


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Day Air attack on Ponape Coastal Gun Regiment, at 73,80

Let's hammer a bit those bastards!!!!!


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 7
A-20B Boston x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 8
B-26B Marauder x 9
B-17E Fortress x 57


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
204 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-21-II Sally x 103
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 69

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Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 49
G3M Nell x 97
G4M1 Betty x 169

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 168



Now April is over. In May we can upgrade the british fighters...the first will be the fulmars aboard our carriers...the SeaHurricanes will be a good upgrade!
Britain called back 1 BB and 2 DDs...not bad..i can give them back easily[;)]
My US CVs are 3 days far from Eniwetok. We're gonna see some action very soon in the Pacific![:D]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
Let's hammer a bit those bastards!!!!!

Try some port attacks, I think I read on the forums once that they have a better chance at disabling CD guns. Of course it may just be an old grog's tale someone made up, but it's worth an attack or two to see if a lot of guns get hit in the bombardment results displayed.

Jim

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
Let's hammer a bit those bastards!!!!!

Try some port attacks, I think I read on the forums once that they have a better chance at disabling CD guns. Of course it may just be an old grog's tale someone made up, but it's worth an attack or two to see if a lot of guns get hit in the bombardment results displayed.

Jim

I've done it!...but results were poor anyway...Tomorrow i've ordered another huge port attack...Let's see!
Bombardment runs will be ordered as soon as my 8 BBs will arrive at Eniwetok...3/4 days i think.
However there are surely thousands of mines at Ponape...will be a bloody bath...i know:-(

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/01/42


Ok...China is lost.
Point.
At Whochow he managed to attack me with more 3000 AVs...and now i simply do not have the time to get back...we're toasted guys. Over.
China is lost.

[:(]

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Ground combat at Wuchow

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 98341 troops, 421 guns, 408 vehicles, Assault Value = 2545

Defending force 23926 troops, 80 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 693

Japanese max assault: 4216 - adjusted assault: 3942

Allied max defense: 624 - adjusted defense: 163 ....the adjusted defense is simply discouraging[:(]

Japanese assault odds: 24 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Wuchow base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
2322 casualties reported
Guns lost 30
Vehicles lost 3

Allied ground losses:
1559 casualties reported
Guns lost 25


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

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Ground combat at Changsha

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12926 troops, 211 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 9378

Defending force 163673 troops, 813 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4219

Japanese max assault: 78 - adjusted assault: 4

Allied max defense: 4296 - adjusted defense: 5827

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)


Japanese ground losses:
1032 casualties reported
Guns lost 26
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
374 casualties reported

He attacks to stop my retreat....[:o]
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Ground combat at Kaifeng

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7286 troops, 32 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3126

Defending force 56891 troops, 163 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 944

Allied max assault: 200 - adjusted assault: 26

Japanese max defense: 1013 - adjusted defense: 1580

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)



Allied ground losses:
819 casualties reported
Guns lost 19

I never ordered this shock attack!!! What the hell.....[:@][:@][:@][:@]...the strange fact is that all my units are still marching back...how could one of my unit have attacked if it's still marching!?!?!?[&:]

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Ground combat at Kweilin

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 390 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 23

Defending force 6760 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 179

Japanese max assault: 32 - adjusted assault: 0

Allied max defense: 186 - adjusted defense: 161

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)


Japanese ground losses:
230 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Para drop in order to stop my retreat...

.

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

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Ground combat at Changsha

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12926 troops, 211 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 9378

Defending force 163673 troops, 813 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4219

Japanese max assault: 78 - adjusted assault: 4

Allied max defense: 4296 - adjusted defense: 5827

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)


Japanese ground losses:
1032 casualties reported
Guns lost 26
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
374 casualties reported

He attacks to stop my retreat....[:o]
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your "opponent" is just a gamey dork, nothing else... using a small unit to stop the move of your whole army, sorry, but I know you enjoy this game, I just wonder if you´re somewhat masochistic? This oh so great super duper just exploiting everything that is possible in the game "player" just deserves it that people just quit playing him...

ORIGINAL: castor troy
your "opponent" is just a gamey dork, nothing else... using a small unit to stop the move of your whole army, sorry, but I know you enjoy this game, I just wonder if you´re somewhat masochistic? This oh so great super duper just exploiting everything that is possible in the game "player" just deserves it that people just quit playing him...

While I respect GH's request to avoid commenting on Trollelite's personality, I'm forced to agree with Troy's assessment. The AAR title should be "Attack of the Loophole Lawyer" as one "gamey exploit" succeeds another. Are you plagued with a streak of masochism, G.H.?

I'm glad other people are saying this also... I mean I am one of the foremost proponents of "Hey if its possible given the laws of physics then feel free to do it in-game" BUT what Trollelite is up to isn't about looking at a situation and going "If this were real life what would I order?". He just looks at every tiny loophole possible and exploits it for all its worth irrespective of whether or not it is something reasonable in real life --- unless of course that code loophole wouldn't favour him in which case he makes a pre-game rule to outlaw it.

That would be objectionable enough but to then have to put up with him braying on and on and on about how brilliant his strategy and tactics are is incredibly objectionable. I really am quite incensed by this as it goes against any ideal of sportsmanship and really is a form of self-delusion. Victory is only worth anything when you've played skillfully and you play an opponent who isn't hamstrung by all manner of rules designed to maximise your freedom of action whilst minimising his. It is an utterly anathema approach to fair play IMO. I promised myself I wouldn't give in and actually challenge him to a game but at this stage I really have an urge to challenge him to a game without all of these silly restrictions and see how he does when things aren't so skewed in his favour.

Guys, while i completely understand what you're trying to tell me and why you're saying this, i have to ask you again not to make anymore "name-calls" against Trollelite in this thread.
As you know he cannot read this AAR, so he cannot defend and i find myself in the bad position to have to defend my opponent even if i do not agree with his game-play.
We've had a long and difficult discussion about the use of Para-drops in non-base hexes. I "signed" a deal that he won't use them anymore like that but at the same time that forces me to withdraw my northern china offensive.
People close to him told him what the other people are saying about him in this AAR and he feels i'm part of a "name-calling" operation against him.
I do not like,nor i want, to be considered conspirating against my opponent, against my game-partner, so i ask you formally to post those considerations on the pubblic forum and not in this AAR.
Please.
 
Thanks. I hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

I would follow an AAR if you decide to do one... and if Troll would take on the challenge! [:D]

 I "signed" a deal that he won't use them anymore like that but at the same time that forces me to withdraw my northern china offensive.

MADNESS !!!! He wanted you to abandon an offensive against him in order to stop doing something which is a clear exploitation of flawed code [8|] [8|] [8|]

Ok, that's it. I'm posting the challenge.

P.s. I don't consider I called him any names in this thread... I do think I made observations regarding the nature of his play as demonstrated in your game.