Matrix Games Forums

10/6/44

Shikuka: Ditto, Lightnings.

10/6/44

Air Losses: Decent day for the Allies, though I don't know which totals to believe (if either) on the Air Losses screen.

10/6/44

Shikuka: The comparative lack of success of enemy subs make this a good day. The abundance of enemy subs makes planning the next turn daunting.

Canoerebel:
10/6/44

Shikuka: 25 hits reported, two penetrating, "heavy damage." This PF TF must be about out of ammo - the engagement lasted a long, long time.

Many of the hits reported were "rattles sub*" or "rattles sub****", with anywhere from one to four asterisks included. What in the world do the asterisks mean?

Alfred answered that about 5 years ago but I could not find the quote. The asterisks are supposed to indicate how close the "near miss" really was, but I cannot remember if more or fewer asterisks is closer. In the end he said it is eye candy, like all the text about rattling. Unless the text says the sub gets damaged, chances are there is no actual damage applied.

Even if you get some near misses causing damage it can often be repaired by the sub after the battle. It takes 15-30 minor hits to cause an I-boat enough accumulated damage to sink. The RO-boats are less robust and 12-20 minor hits can put them in trouble. Penetrating hits are where it is at. Two penetrating hits will knock an I-boat out of the battle and send it RTB. Three penetrating hits will usually sink an I-boat or force it to the surface.

For RO-boats two penetrating hits puts them in dire straits or sinks them. Mini-subs are eggshells that usually sink after a single penetrating hit or about five near misses causing damage. They cannot dive deep so finding them and hitting them is much easier.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

10/6/44

Shikuka: 25 hits reported, two penetrating, "heavy damage." This PF TF must be about out of ammo - the engagement lasted a long, long time.

Many of the hits repored were "rattles sub*" or "rattles sub****", with anywhere from one to four asterisks included. What in the world do the asterisks mean?

They mean basically nothing.

For the "hits", those include "Near miss damages sub...". These can knock out torpedo tubes, cause minor flooding, or "fire" in the control room. In my experience on both sides of these messages, they may cause a point of System damage or they may not. You really need actual hits on the subs to do anything to them.

But the torpedo tubes being damaged are at least partial mission kills. I've damaged multiple sets in a single ASW action before, which makes me happy even if I don't deal any lasting damage to the sub.

Yes, the "Fire" message (whatever part of the boat it is in) is serious and can sometimes force the sub to the surface. Much more common are messages about "leaking" which mean minor flood damage, but enough of those can cause the sub to sink too.

There is another message about leaking oil, but I don't know if that increases the sub's chance of being detected (i.e. less chance of losing contact) or if it significantly reduces the fuel range of the sub.

Underwater explosions are good joss for the ASW forces.

Only about 10% of aircraft reported "HIT"s seem to actually cause some damage, even with skilled pilots.

There are a lot more single-asterisk strikes than four-asterisk strikes, so probably more asterisks = more damage.

I think Death Star will follow The Herd, trailing by a single hex. I'm hoping that will increase the odds that the lumbering behemoth xAKs and escorting ASW TFs will happen upon the wolves first.

I haven't tried this before, so I'm not sure if there's a downside.

I've been travelling on business, and this is my first time on the forum for about 10 days. Took me a couple hours of reading to catch up on your AAR. As usual Dan, it is very well written and very enjoyable to follow. The intensity of the Battle of Shikuka rivals some of your clashes with John III...

ORIGINAL: dave sindel
I've been travelling on business, and this is my first time on the forum for about 10 days. Took me a couple hours of reading to catch up on your AAR. As usual Dan, it is very well written and very enjoyable to follow. The intensity of the Battle of Shikuka rivals some of your clashes with John III...

Thanks, Dave. Welcome home.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
the odds of a carrier clash are pretty slim.

Oh? What makes you say that?

KB had damaged carriers that Erik was carefully shepherding home. For a turn or two, the odds of him attacking were low enough that I switched some strike aircraft to ASW duty. Now DS is close enough to LRCAP at Shikuka that those ASW squadorns (perhaps six or eight total) will continue to focus on enemy subs.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There are a lot more single-asterisk strikes than four-asterisk strikes, so probably more asterisks = more damage.

Some time ago I asked about this. The answer I got, consistent from several experienced players, is there is no damage unless the message specifically says there was damage. So "near miss" with any number of asterisks is just excitement with no substance. "Near miss causes damage" (or fire, etc) actually does something. But you need a direct hit -- actually multiple ones -- to really cause serious damage to the sub and have a good chance of sinking it or forcing it to the surface to get blasted.

Vaguely seem to recall: aren't the asterisks just counters so the identical message is not repeated many times?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think Death Star will follow The Herd, trailing by a single hex. I'm hoping that will increase the odds that the lumbering behemoth xAKs and escorting ASW TFs will happen upon the wolves first.

I haven't tried this before, so I'm not sure if there's a downside.

Yes, by leading with your xAKs, it is more likely that will be intercepted by any SCTF naval sorties or SS units lurking. They should serve to soak off any attacks on your carrier fleet nicely.

A very long time ago Symon (one of the devs for the newbs) stated that the asterisks mean nothing.

They were intended to represent something that was never implemented.

The only near missies that I am aware of that have an effect in game are anti-submarine attack near misses and ones that report actual damage.

Near misses that rattle the sub do no damage.

Damaging near misses are reported as hits in the combat report so sometimes a combat report with 10 hits really hasn't disabled the sub much because they were all light damage near misses.

You need at least 2-3 penetrating hits to really damage a sub substantially.

The lead TF is a combat TF with a variety of TFs following, including another combat TF, minesweepers, ASW TFs, and the various merchantmen. There are also combat TFs patrolling between The Herd and danger. Most importantly, though, most of Erik's combat TFs are accounted for at Sapporo and points south, so the risk of surface encounters is small.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There are a lot more single-asterisk strikes than four-asterisk strikes, so probably more asterisks = more damage.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that they're essentially just random, with no effect. "Near miss rattles sub" doesn't do any damage to the sub, for example, but you'll still see asterisks for that message.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Vaguely seem to recall: aren't the asterisks just counters so the identical message is not repeated many times?

I've seen identical numbers of asterisks repeated, so it's not that.

10/7/44

Shikuka: The night of the 7th opens with another ASW battle, this one a hex SW of the starting position of Death Star.

10/7/44

Shikuka: The preceding post is a sync-bug mirage. So I won't post images of all the sub/ASW action this turn. There's a lot of it, but I'll instead post from the combat report.