Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: eske

How about leaders? Can they be loaned? Of course they would need to be attached to a loaned corps...
/eske

Not as it is, thats why i was thinking it could be bug.

If you try lend a corps with a leader. You just cant, game says (in red as for illegal actions) "leader attached" and nothing happens.

Regards
Bresh

Okay, I patched to 1.01B tonight

Started playing the computer and came across a major new bug

1. I am at war with Austria as France
2. In February 1805 I beat charles in venice, but fail to break in and kill the garrison and siege it
3. right after the diplomacy phase of March 1805, suddenly venice becomes conquered, with me still besieging the garrison..and no, austria did not sue me for peace...

the saved file is attached

Not bug.  Austria was in the Instability Zone during the Diplomatic Phase and had no unbesieged major-power corps there, and Venice was conquered, not a Free State.  They lost it -- to you, because you were there at the time.

ORIGINAL: ecn1

Okay, I patched to 1.01B tonight

Started playing the computer and came across a major new bug

1. I am at war with Austria as France
2. In February 1805 I beat charles in venice, but fail to break in and kill the garrison and siege it
3. right after the diplomacy phase of March 1805, suddenly venice becomes conquered, with me still besieging the garrison..and no, austria did not sue me for peace...

the saved file is attached

Read section 6.6.1; subsection changing control

Unfortunately, the Austrian garrison did not repatriate so you have something here.

Richard

Attached -- saved game (game was started in 1.01 beta B) where with some positive probability (*) Austria surrenders to France.  The problem is that France and Austria aren't actually at war.


(*) Not guaranteed that Austria will surrender to anybody.  Tried save/reload 'bout eight times with the autosave after seeing it happen, and this bug manifested once more.

Attached -- save game from a two-player PBEM in which case client machine (1.01 beta, b) decided that *both* human players should simultaneously be replaced by AI.

Running 1.01b --

Strange problems with sea supply:

First problem: creating sea supply. Not sure whether this is an intentional change, but in 1.0 it was possible to create sea supply in a controlled port if one had a depot in a supply port and a fleet in the supply port. Doesn't seem to be sufficient in 1.01b, but I was able to create the depot when I moved a fleet to the target port ALSO. As I say, maybe that's an intentional change, but the manual doesn't seem to read that way. Clarification?

More definite problem:

Created sea supply depot in Hull. Was able to use it to supply and add factors to the Swedish corps and the Holland corps, and to place and fill a new French corps.

However, when the Swedish corps moves more than one area away, it's out of supply. The French corps and Holland corps are still in supply, though. (?!)

Also, cannot create second depot two areas away, in London ("not a valid supply chain"). In fact, when I click on the Hull depot, it says it's not in a supply chain. BUT the French and Holland corps are still getting supply from it.

Possible cause/related issue: since creating the depot, the supply port (Malmo) has been blockaded by the Russian fleet. It would make sense if that cut Hull's supply, though I'm not sure whether that's indeed supposed to happen. But in any case, presumably it shouldn't cut it for some corps and not for others, or for adding depots but not for adding factors.

File attached.

Nathan Rose

If malmo is the only valid supply source and its blockaded the chain is invalid so that part seems from your description be working as it should, that you still can supply and reinforce corps on the depot seems like a bug.

I've been playing around with this sea supply thing, re-running it a couple of different ways. This is what I've found.

The blockaded fleet doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. Maybe it should block the supply line, but it doesn't seem to. Only the Sweden corps is affected, and that is true when the port is not blockaded also.

It appears to have to do with lapse of war. Sweden is a free state acquired by France when Russia declared war. Since AI Russia only takes Finland, Sweden proper always seems to end up under the permanent control of the sponsor.

However, Russia does move a corps into northern Sweden, so the war doesn't lapse until that dies of foraging. [8|]

The weird behavior of sea supply for the Swedish corps comes to an end when the war lapses, and it starts receiving supply normally.

Now, I can understand that a sponsored minor might be treated differently from a normal one, but this seems like an odd result. You can run sea supply from the minor's port (Malmo); that depot will supply your own corps up to the normal three spaces away; you can place new corps and factors on it; you can supply that minor's corps up to one space away; BUT you cannot supply that minor's corps two spaces away; and you cannot extend the supply chain from that depot. (Until the war lapses; then you can do all those things.)

Nathan Rose

Malmo as blockaded is not a valid supply source for sea supply. To be able to place, reinforce or supply ANY corp from Hull shouldnt be possible as there is no valid sea supply chain.
 
If the war lapses the blockade is broken and the sea supply chain from Malmo becomes valid.
 
This should also be true of you break the blockade of Malmo or if you break the blockade of Le Havre it can serve as a supply source for Hull.
 
If you place a depod in Amsterdam there will be a valid sea supply lane/chain.
 
It seems it may take a month before the chain is activated in some of the circumstances, dont know if this is intended.
 
 

I agree with you that blockading Malmo should make the sea supply invalid. I'm just saying that, in the game, that's not having any effect. I know this because I started a new game, and did everything the same, but this time Malmo didn't get blockaded, and the situation was identical: Hull could be used to bring up new corps, place factors, and trace supply; but the Swedish corps couldn't get supply more than one area away, and the line couldn't be extended to London--until the Russo-Swedish war lapsed. That's with no blockade on Malmo at any time.

So, really there are three (or perhaps four) issues:

1) It seems to be necessary to have a fleet in both ports to create the depot; rules say only the supply port.

2) The blockade on the supply port should sever supply, but doesn't seem to.

3) Weird behavior of the depot until minor war lapses.

4(?) It could be an open question whether tracing supply from Malmo is legitimate at all, since until the war lapses it's just a sponsored minor. People used to argue about rules like this ad infinitum; the advantage of a program is that it makes a ruling--you can do what it lets you do. But right now, what it lets you do seems to be somewhat, er, idiosyncratic.


Nathan Rose

#102-D15 DIPLOMACY PHASE
From: delatbabel
Problem: Once the Confederation of the Rhine is created the morale for its component corps drops back to 2 inf / 3 cav.
No file available
Status: No Confirmation yet – Pending

In this first game I have just begun a new game as Prussia, added the saxony corps, and saved. This demonstrates that the initial morale for saxony is 3 for inf and 4 for cav.

#102-D15 DIPLOMACY PHASE
From: delatbabel
Problem: Once the Confederation of the Rhine is created the morale for its component corps drops back to 2 inf / 3 cav.
No file available
Status: No Confirmation yet – Pending

In this game I am playing Austria in 1811 and have formed the Confederation of the Rhine, note that the saxony corps is in Freiburg and has morale 2.0.

Not sure whether this is a bug, but it is unexpected....

France and Austria have just concluded peace (but are not allied or anything). France DOWs Bavaria, which goes to Spanish control.

First month, French corps fights Bavaria corps in the mountains (good set-up by the AI there). In Austria's phase, since Austria is at war with Spain, Charles moves a corps in to besiege Munich, but doesn't get a breach. (Note this is not a recurrence of the poaching bug, which I think was eliminated in the patch. This is a legitimate action on Austria's part.)

Next month, France moves Ney's corps to besiege Munich. Here's the surprise. When I get a breach, I find that the Austrians are besieging with me, and we are all under the command of Charles.

No sinister consequences--I was allowed to move into the city when the garrison was eliminated, and got the conquest. But for a minute there it was like France and Austria had combined movement.

File attached--land phase, move Ney to Munich and besiege....

Nathan Rose

1) It seems to be necessary to have a fleet in both ports to create the depot; rules say only the supply port.

2) The blockade on the supply port should sever supply, but doesn't seem to.

3) Weird behavior of the depot until minor war lapses.

4(?) It could be an open question whether tracing supply from Malmo is legitimate at all, since until the war lapses it's just a sponsored minor. People used to argue about rules like this ad infinitum; the advantage of a program is that it makes a ruling--you can do what it lets you do. But right now, what it lets you do seems to be somewhat, er, idiosyncratic.

1. yes, a fleet in the supply source, Malmo in this case, should be enough.

2. yes, a blockaded port can't be a supply source for the purpose of sea supply(actually it probably could, if the depots filled all other prerequisites for sea supply and belonged to a power not at war with any blockading fleet and there was a eligible fleet not at war with the blockading fleets in either port ).

About 3 and 4

I guess it could be argued that Sweden is not under your full control. Its however not logical in that case, that Malmo could be used as a supply source for French corps, while it would be logical that the Swedish corp could.

Something is definatly wierd with the depot in Hull, it should as per AiE rules not be deemed valid in some cases and not in some. But in a way it seems to be remotly related to the same type of problem that I had in Linz that is described earlier in this thread. And I can see that it from a programers point of view can be a logical nightmare.

I'm not sure I can explain it very clearly without doing a really long post that is very technical something I would prefer not to do, but I'll try

Probably something to do with the order of testing the validity of different conditions and that the program is assuming that if a certain condition is meet its implied that a second condition must be true or false when there is actually one or more situation where this is actually not true. This means that depending on the order of the test or alternativly if it is a positive or negative test you get different results.

Whats complicating the issue here is that France is not at war with Russia so a test of the depot(French) would not be blockaded by a russian Fleet while if you test the Fleet(Swedish) it is very much blockaded.

I would like you to test to move a French Fleet to Malmo as France aint at war with Russia it shouldnt be blockaded and if my suspicion is correct the sea supply chain would be valid.

Tried to do the test, moving the french fleet, seems not to make the chain valid, at least not immidiatly and as the war with Russia lapses before next land phase I havent managed to see if there is months delay on validation of the sea supply chain as if you would place a depot in for example amsterdam.

Forwarding a report of a bug in 1.01b from one of the topics below:

In PBEM with 1.01b. I am GB. France holds London, I am at war with Fr and Sp. Spain has no troops in GB.

I get the message that I must surrender to France. I sue for peace, accept an unconditional from France, but when I try to end the phase, I get the "you must surrender to France message".

I tried this again going as far as surrendering to noth France and Spain unconditionally (although clearly under the rules I am not required to surrender to spain) and even surrendering to both and accepting unconditionals, it STILL gave me the "you must surrender..." message. So we are now stuck in GB diplomacy phase.

Playing as France, 1.01b--

I've had corps in some DOWed German minors for several months without getting conquest. Haven't generally had this problem in this game--it just started.

Subsequent to attached savefile, I was able to get conquest by detaching factors to garrison, but the corps should be (and usually is) sufficient.

I don't know whether this is a bug or an intentional change, but it's definitely different from 1.0--

In the peace conditions screen, the list of fleets to remove for any given country is now the entire OOB of fleet counters, whether they're in existence on the map or not. Previously, that screen listed only those actually available to choose, as it does with the land units. (And since naval information is more public than land, I don't see the point of this change if it is intentional--so I suspect it isn't.)

No file--you can confirm this just by starting a new game. All fleet counters are listed from the beginning.

Nathan Rose

Spelling Error:

Naval Phase
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Anti-Piracy is spelt as Anit-Piracy on mouse over.

See embedded pic