Matrix Games Forums

How long are you guys going to beat a dead horse. It isn't going to happen...Sorry.

Pyle, I don't want it to happen...(saw you replied to me)

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

How long are you guys going to beat a dead horse. It isn't going to happen...Sorry.

That might be the case- but it doesn't make it right.

People want more control these days, the systems we use can, and would handle a game being more complicated.
We're not dealing with Data tapes and Commodore 64's these days people!

Well, in the standar edition production isnt free but in Generals Edition is free [:D]

The problem is that dont add something to have control over production give you a good game not a superb game and of course not a historical game because if the game is historical and you dont have historical orders... ummm in the game you can do all you want or you have to do historical orders like send panzers to Kiev??? if answer is no say no free production is historical is a bad joke [;)]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

How long are you guys going to beat a dead horse. It isn't going to happen...Sorry.

True, but as someone pointed out to me it's still a good place to discuss the pros and cons of the subject.

why not create an Off Topic sub section and move threads like this into it?  as more and more people come to this forum as the release gets closer, threads like this may confuse them and keep the topic alive forever

Too funny. You guys don't realize yet that the topic itself will never die. Despite what ever happens with the game.

I realize it won't die..    just thinking of a pragmatic solution...

There is no pragmatic solution. Some people wanted the ability to play with production and some don't. Some of us are just disappointed that production was not included like WIR. Not a deal breaker just disappointed.

It would have been nice if this issue was polled the way Jason Petho asked if JTCS Modern Campaigns should have a DCG, or individual Boot camp scenarios.

Gary and his team chose to leave this feature out. It is "his" game, and he is an artist when it comes to designing games. Artistic types are generally a little eccentric and think outside the box. Hopefully like WIR he has created another masterpiece. Time will tell.

from early Alpha, this has been a great game, I don't think you will find any tester who don't think so, this is going to be one of the great ones, it is just getting it to do what everyone wants it to do

For you guys who keep bringing up the Generals Edition you realize that is 4 - 5 years away at least.
1 game is at least 6 months out.
2 Matrix and 2 by 3 will want to get all the sales they can before they let anyone have the code probably 2 more years.
3 the work will be done by volunteers who have jobs and family's so another 18 -24 months at least.

So if you are waiting for the Generals Edition you have a long wait.

ORIGINAL: bigmilt

For you guys who keep bringing up the Generals Edition you realize that is 4 - 5 years away at least.
1 game is at least 6 months out.
2 Matrix and 2 by 3 will want to get all the sales they can before they let anyone have the code probably 2 more years.
3 the work will be done by volunteers who have jobs and family's so another 18 -24 months at least.

So if you are waiting for the Generals Edition you have a long wait.

You make it sound like their working from a shed out back in the yard......We are talking about a business aren't we, or just a few guys chugging beers on the weekend and typing a few lines of code, instead of whacking a golf ball about?

Dude who has 4 or 5 years, tech is changing pretty damn fast man- and here we still have counters on a map.

I hope your wrong on this though because- it aint gonna win them new fans, people expect a more rapid turn around these days (many companies create fantastic add-ons, and DLC, soon after release), and the release of code, in time- opens the doors to many exciting a new fan based versions of the game- keeping the game alive, without a great deal of company man hours.


I really do find the war gaming community are always prepared to just cop it on the chin when it comes to excuses- the fact we are the buyers, we create the interest by investing our time and money.
We accept poor graphics, limited player options and lengthy wait times with a high bill for the price of the game and excuse it all by saying-

Real grogs don't need graphics (eye candy), and the coding is really hard etc etc and you should be happy with what you got........

Guys we're looking forward to playing this game, but in reality it a Model T ford in the day and age of cruise control and self parking cars!

The fact is- if these types of companies don't evolve, they will die.

Then we'll all have nothing......... Not just no player controlled production.

If you read Joels post the generals edition will be like witp admirals edition - like I said a team of volunteers to do the job not a company.
If you read my points the base game out in say 6 months.. They arenot going to give up their code that they worked on for years right away so
like I said a year to two delay right there. Then like I said it is a volunteer force to do the job. Just like bob/btr volunteer force doing the same thing for over 3 years. NO offense inteaded Hard Sarge or Harley.

And I don't think the Generals Edition will be only just free production - somebody else will not like something and will
want another aspect or 2 or 3 of the game changed that's why I said 18 - 24 months.

I want to return to the Eastern front with Gary. This game won't need production IMHO. Sounds great already, and I agree that the time spent on the AI, supply, historical losses etc. is more useful.
My two cents.

The General edition- I imagine that comes at a cost?

ie buying the game again..



So in order to get free production- which I believe should have been an option in this version and adds to re playability:

ie At the start of the game tick a box for either play with production, or use historical production.

I don't think such an option is way out there...............



I would prefer not to have to buy the game again though.........Matrix branded games are a tad expensive.
So is it possible for the production be a free DLC, like many other companies do? Such as Valve

But, asking for "Free" from a fairly low margin, high cost (i.e. development time) industry doesn't make a lot of sense from an economic standpoint.

I'd prefer to see Matrix concentrate on remaining profitable, put out great games that lots of people want to play, and if certain individuals want to add a tweak here and there, let them. But, to ask for a full blown production model, to be done "free" is a little much.

Well whats the option?

Buy the game again when they do the Generals edition?
Or they release a DLC free, or at a small charge.

This is very concerning- I fear the game will be in danger of being a dinosaur before its even released.

I play WIR mostly without using control of production, this is how it would be for a more normal military high command structure. Eisenhower and MacArthur did not control production, they gave advice and made requests, but, most commanders have to make do with what they are given (that's the challenging bit). It was only because Hitler, as Head of State, also made himself supreme commander that brought production into the military command sphere. Play like Hitler and you lose, I prefer to imagine that he has taken a more normal role as Head of State, allowing for more operational flexibility and a non-historical, but better game. I am happy with what has been promised, but am also happy to see as many options as possible, if they were to become available later. [:)]

Didn't Napoleon try to run everything and the only thing he ran was "a muck"! The whole concept of a general staff to aid the supreme commander reinforces this. If you want to mod production do it from the get go and you can only do it once. Have a data file where you can modify this that and the other but once you start you got what you got. One thing that bothered me about WIR was how easily you could retool for a different tank or aircraft. Not real at all. What Ford did at Willow Run for the B-24 could never be dupicated by either the Russians or the Germans. One was too primative the other built everything like watches, hand made with leather seats and painted on the inside. No ... you fight the war with what you have. Tweak at the begining or not at all.