Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Ntronium

The game doesn't give you the exact destination of a fleet, but does show you where it came from last turn, so you can see the direction and speed it's going. In practice you can usually guess it's destination, particularly once it gets close. However, having to plan your moves without perfect information on what the enemy is going to do, is part of the charm of a WEGO system.

Excellent. So, maybe the desicion to intercept an opposing fleet could be a gamble. If you miss it then you may have to chase it. It might arrive at it's target ahead of you which is where you could have stayed to defend instead. Or, if you choose to stay and defend then the approaching fleet may actually be heading to another, softer, target.

ORIGINAL: Tom_Holsinger

Birth of the Federation (original edition) allowed interceptions. The feature was limited, but it did work. It seemed to be most commonly effective in intercepting attempts to build outposts.

Using the "Intercept" command in BOTF has always been very hit-and-miss for me. Yes, sometimes it works, but I'd say it doesn't work just as often.

Also, a significant flaw in using BOTF's Intercept command is that multiple task forces (henceforth referred to as TFs) stationed in the same sector will not necessarily all move to intercept an intruder, thus I end up not bringing my full force to bear on the enemy. This is particularly problematic when an intruder brings lots of friends with them, and so I end up with situations like the following:

I have 6 TFs (consisting of a full 9 ships each) stationed at Vulcan, all set to Intercept. However, when an enemy fleet consisting of 4 TFs flies in close proximity to Vulcan, only 2 of my TFs actually move to intercept it, and are subsequently overwhelmed & destroyed.

I'm not saying this happens a lot -- if I see an enemy fleet, I usually remember to switch any nearby TF's from "Intercept" to "Engage" -- but it's occurred enough times that I don't trust the Intercept command except for in cases where I'm only expecting to intercept small groups of enemy vessels.

ORIGINAL: Ntronium

The game doesn't give you the exact destination of a fleet, but does show you where it came from last turn, so you can see the direction and speed it's going. In practice you can usually guess it's destination, particularly once it gets close. However, having to plan your moves without perfect information on what the enemy is going to do, is part of the charm of a WEGO system.

Ah! See now, this is actually what I wanted.

I realize a fleet may change course during its turn after I've already moved to intercept, thus throwing me off; that's perfectly fine with me, as I would expect something like that anyway. As long as I can at least see where a fleet came from, though, then I have an opportunity to make a semi-educated guess as to its destination, which is all I ask for.

Thanks for the clarification, Ntronium. That makes me feel a lot better. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Excellent. So, maybe the desicion to intercept an opposing fleet could be a gamble. If you miss it then you may have to chase it. It might arrive at it's target ahead of you which is where you could have stayed to defend instead. Or, if you choose to stay and defend then the approaching fleet may actually be heading to another, softer, target.

Well that's pretty much always a guessing game one has to play when dealing with space 4X games: Do you risk dispatching your fleet from their current station of protecting Important Planet A to engage the enemy so that said enemy cannot go marauding around Less Important Planets B, C, D, & E? Or do you leave B, C, D, & E to the tender mercies of the enemy fleet to ensure that at least Planet A remains secure?

The difference here is that in Armada, you can extrapolate where an enemy fleet is probably headed, thus lowering the risks somewhat. Of course, since the enemy *knows* you can predict with some accuracy where they're headed, they may change direction at the last minute.... [;)]

Intercepting in BOTF was very limited and it usually ended with manual movement of fast fleets and stuffing borders with destroyers. Later in the game, it was considerably easier with faster ships available like Constellation-class, Defiant-class, B'rel-II, forgot Romulan and Cardie names. Not played in years. In particular Klingons and Romulans had huge advantage with cloaks. 5*9 destroyers type-II took easily any amount of Borg cubes quickly and efficiently without casualties.

Anyway. I would like to move to another issue. Outposts, starbases. Where can you build this stuff? Is it possible (like in BOTF) to move fleet to the border, build outpost and then move deep into enemy territory, and then build huge starbase and raid/conquer every system near it before enemy know what hit him? Is there any limit to how many ships/outposts/starbases can be built (I honestly dislike any form of limitation of units or buildings - caps)?

An Outpost is merely a system (like any other) that you choose not to develop - for its quality mainly. There are no starbases like in BotF.
As for huge invasion fleets, you'll have to wait for the game to be in your hands.  [;)]  But I'm sure you'll be surprised...
 
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I think Intercept was a %-based ability in BotF?

I realize a fleet may change course during its turn after I've already moved to intercept, thus throwing me off; that's perfectly fine with me, as I would expect something like that anyway. As long as I can at least see where a fleet came from, though, then I have an opportunity to make a semi-educated guess as to its destination, which is all I ask for.

 
You may change its course intentionally *if* you have the tech for it. And it's not a given that you know where it came from - only if it was inside your scan range at the time.

Clarifying the outpost issue, Armada doesn't need them for expansion the way BotF did. That's why there isn't a similar concept. Notice that you can still have outposts, like I said, by colonizing crappy systems and turning them into real outposts - early warning capable systems. Can't say too much more though.

OK, fine by me. Of course I did not expected 100% detail. [:)]

Anyway, one more 'batch-question' about constructing stuff.
1. Are build queues MOO2 style or BOTF style? (1 thing at a time or with ability to set for example 20 of item A and 35 of item B and 5 of item C)
2. Are queues for structures and ships separated, so you can build ships and structures at the same time?
3. How long is standard building queue? (While in MOO2 it was pain with one thing at a time, queue was long enough, but in BOTF it was (IIRC) only 4 slots long which made it kind of annoying - don't want to use word pointless.)
4. And 4th related to building ships not queues. Is any planet capable to build any kind of ship(s), or you need some special kind of structure(s) to build for example battleships?
5. Can you build a structure/improvement/ship just by buying it (like it was possible in BOTF)?

Well, I did not make up my mind yet. The visuals are looking good, but according to the feature list (streamlined Economic System ... is designed to let you make the major decisions about the development of each colony, without having to micro-manage every little detail.) I'm concerned that empire management will be rather on the light side. Thus I would appreciate if somebody with insight could expose the nuts and bolts of economy and technology-trees in Armada 2526.

1) BotF2 style [:D]
2) Answered already [;)]
3) Long enough [8D]
4) Answered already too [:'(]
5) Handles it the right way IMO [:)]

(sorry about all the smilies, my niece wanted to see them)

Lutzow,

There's plenty to do, you will not lack for options and strategies. I think it's fair to say that needless micro-management has been removed from this design, but it is not a "light" or "simple" game, it's got a lot of strategic depth and system detail.

Regards,

- Erik

Question:
- Can techs be won by conquest (invasion of a planet)?

Ok, first, let me say that I am very intrigued by this game.  When I come back to the states in January I am going to look for it.
 
That being said, one of the fun things about Sword of the Stars was its variety of random events (and menaces).  Some mods for civilization 4 also made excellent use of random events (revolutions springs to mind).  These things add an element of uncertainty to the game that is extremely fun, and would be fanastic to have random events, both for the enjoyment and the modding opportunities inherent in having that as a modding tool.  Extends replayability dramatically.
 
Also, someone earlier in this thread or another one I was reading asked about non-state actors.... corporations and such.  I was wondering about whether those were included in the game, or have the possibility of being included in the game via mods.

They're included in the game.

What are?  Nonstate actors?  Random events?  Menaces?  Very cryptic!
 
I swear, this little potential gem has been brought out the same way Kerberos brings out games... stealthily!
 

We be pirates, matey!

YARRR!

Question: Can multiplayer games be saved?

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I have some questions for the beta-testers as they have the most experience with the game so far. This is partiuclarly directed to Oppiexx as Aroddo indicated Oppiexx has played longer games than most.

Can player empires develop all or almost all of the tech available to them before their empires are so obviously superior to all the remaining AI empires that there's just no challenge to continuing a given game?

Do the Happiness and Bureaucracy features tend to put a size limit on the manageability of really large empires?

I'm exploring the outer parameters of the game's playability here. Most turn-based space 4x games result in players expanding so much that they run out of viable opposition before the upper tech levels are reached, which really inhibits players' ability to have fun with all of a game's tech. This is less of a problem for A2526 because players can't design their own ships.

I am also very interested in the possibility that A2526's very open scale up (gigantic games possible), plus the Happiness/Bureaucracy features, mean that players really can't just outgrow the opposition, because their empires will fall apart from internal strife past a certain size.

These matters also raise fascinating strategic issues, such as whether the best long-term growth policy is to limit your empire to your own race, through rigorous implementation of the eXtertimate X. I.e., don't conquer colonies of races different from your starting race. Just eXterminate them and recolonize with your own race. This could make such empires very slow to grow and favor "turtle defense" players, which is not a bad thing at all, especially in marketing.

Can player empires develop all or almost all of the tech available to them before their empires are so obviously superior to all the remaining AI empires that there's just no challenge to continuing a given game?

well, I had a pretty long game (~300 turns) which I won eventually by domination. It was on the relatively small Twelve Races scenario map (which is actually pretty big).
In the end I was certainly invincible and my tech advantage was significant, but even though I researched several fields completely, I didn't get to research all of it.

I am also very interested in the possibility that A2526's very open scale up (gigantic games possible), plus the Happiness/Bureaucracy features, mean that players really can't just outgrow the opposition, because their empires will fall apart from internal strife past a certain size.

I am not sure if there's an upper limit to expansion but I don't think so. It's rather that large empires are increasingly hard to keep at peace, that expansion slows automatically and the per capita income get's lower than you'd care for. Also, the less happy your people the less attractive uninhabitable planets become because the unhappiness factor is higher by several magnitudes. You'd have to pump so much resources in a new colony for it to break even, that it's barely worth the effort, meaning that future expansion will likely result either in cherrypicking or strategic bases.
For the same reasons, occupying alien planets becomes increasingly less attractive (sterilizing them first is always an option, though).[8D]

I applied a gulag strategy with great success. Conquer a well developed planet, seed with your species and ferry the natives off to some hellhole planet where they can rot, riot and rebel for all I care. In the beta I could even sell those unproductive overpopulated planets away for a profit.

The possible scale of this game opens many strategic doors.