Matrix Games Forums

Leary of Miri
Allies won't dare stick their necks
In enemy lair

Adversary says
things now will get "interesting";
my theory: Miri.

---------------------------------

Canoesamurai-san, I hope you are right, but my lair is not so prickly in northern Borneo. Witpqs-san, Miri already had 150 oil damage after I took it the first time; if he does land there, I guess it will get worse.

Xxzard-san, mini-KB has two CVLs, with Kates and Zeroes only, yes. But it is seven hexes east of Manado right now, 2-3 days' sail to be striking distance from Miri -- and to get there, it must navigate past Cagayen and around Tarakan (Manado, I hope, is now knocked out), and then hope to defeat the British CVL, then make port presumably in Saigon. I suppose all that is feasible, but I sure prefer to enter battle knowing I have the upper hand. Other alternatives to intercept may be even less appealing, though: unescorted Nells out of Indochina; or a surface group out of Indochina with little or no fighter cover. KB is covering the invasion of Port Moresby, which is loading at Truk now.

I am considering ordering the CVLs forward, but I'm not sure about it. I have a day to ponder it, as the war is on pause because of "real life", so any further advice would be welcome.

Miri Miri
quite contrary
how does your oil flow?

Hmm, I was hoping you might have more carriers in mini KB, like the CVE's Hosho and Taiyo, but I guess it's still very early in the war.

I agree that it is a bit higher risk than I'd like to take really. If he only has two carriers, I think you are probably still on equal terms in aircraft, but I think your carriers would have a high risk of damage.

Turtles carry birds
but the turtle shells are soft
and crack easily.

----------------------------------------------

Yes, I suppose I should've brought all four light carriers together into mini-KB. (I floundered around uselessly trying to figure out how to upgrade my Claudes to Zeroes, and that distracted me from consolidating my forces. One of many mistakes I'm learning from.) My understanding is that the two CVLs are pretty flimsy.

The aggressive part of me is thinking: if he does take Miri, I should get ready to counter-invade as soon as possible, so that he doesn't just take it and then yank his troops out to defend Singapore again. To prepare for that, I suppose I'd (1) move my two CVLs north, near Jolo; (2) Gather my surface group at Cam Ranh Bay; I just need to move some DDs on ASW duty into port there, which will take just one turn. (3) Load up a couple regiments of my own (I have two in Saigon, plus a couple small units prepped for neighboring Brunei). (4) Fly intensive recon/air search to figure out just what ships he's got; (5) Send in the CVLs and surface ships, fight until we both retire; (6) follow up with the transports to recapture the base.

The more rational part of me is thinking: meh, so let him try to take Miri. My well-prepped troops there might give his a bloody nose, even if he wins. I can rebuild both ground units from my pool, and neither unit was part of my plan for Singapore. I'm more interested in Singapore and the southern DEI -- the corridor from Palau-Manado-Kendari-Ambon-Timor. If I can open that corridor from the north, KB can help finish the job from the south. His guys will rot in the jungle of Miri, or go back to Singapore to surrender to my 5-6 divisions there; either way, the fall of the northern DEI (and reconquest of Miri) is a matter of time.

I'm not sure which part of me is right.

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Adversary says
things now will get "interesting";
my theory: Miri.

---------------------------------

Canoesamurai-san, I hope you are right, but my lair is not so prickly in northern Borneo. Witpqs-san, Miri already had 150 oil damage after I took it the first time; if he does land there, I guess it will get worse.

Xxzard-san, mini-KB has two CVLs, with Kates and Zeroes only, yes. But it is seven hexes east of Manado right now, 2-3 days' sail to be striking distance from Miri -- and to get there, it must navigate past Cagayen and around Tarakan (Manado, I hope, is now knocked out), and then hope to defeat the British CVL, then make port presumably in Saigon. I suppose all that is feasible, but I sure prefer to enter battle knowing I have the upper hand. Other alternatives to intercept may be even less appealing, though: unescorted Nells out of Indochina; or a surface group out of Indochina with little or no fighter cover. KB is covering the invasion of Port Moresby, which is loading at Truk now.

I am considering ordering the CVLs forward, but I'm not sure about it. I have a day to ponder it, as the war is on pause because of "real life", so any further advice would be welcome.

It's peculiar, but the oil in Miri seems to be predisposed to being exactly 50% damaged upon capture. I've read a lot of reports to this effect on the forum.

I agree with other posters-this is likely a raid. It would be unwise for the allied player to venture too deeply into Japanese territory without suitable reconaissance. My guess is that this TF is BB heavy and spoiling for a surface action around Miri. That's just out of range of Nells with torpedoes from Saigon, IIRC.

I can't imagine your opponent would risk his British light carriers at this early juncture here of all places...

*bows to Chickenboy-san * So, would you recommend I move my two CVLs closer? Their mission had been simply to cover the landings at Manado, which appear to be going off without a hitch. I get nervous moving them through the enclosed waters of the DEI. On the other hand, I have no other way to respond to whatever he's doing near Miri, unless I want to commit CAs and CLs out of Indochina.

ORIGINAL: Grotius

*bows to Chickenboy-san * So, would you recommend I move my two CVLs closer? Their mission had been simply to cover the landings at Manado, which appear to be going off without a hitch. I get nervous moving them through the enclosed waters of the DEI. On the other hand, I have no other way to respond to whatever he's doing near Miri, unless I want to commit CAs and CLs out of Indochina.

Hi Grotius,

Looking at your map, I don't see any TFs that are immediately threatened in the next turn or so. If engaging a possible CVL TF with your CVL TF isn't of interest to you, then perhaps doing nothing may be most beneficial. Perhaps hold your CVLs in their current position awaiting future developments.

If it's a SCTF snooping for easy prey, he'll turn back after finding nothing. Problem solved. If it's a CVL TF looking for easy prey, you have a turn to get some LBA into position to engage, without revealing your CVL TF. If it's a counterlanding at Miri, then your opponent has gone mad with bloodlust and needs to be put down. Your (supported) CVLs, assembled SCTFs and submarines should move in to 'contribute' to his woes if he takes this inadvised step.

If it's a counterlanding at Miri, then your opponent has gone mad with bloodlust and needs to be put down. Your (supported) CVLs, assembled SCTFs and submarines should move in to 'contribute' to his woes if he takes this inadvised step.

Hmm, would a counter-landing at Miri be so crazy? If he takes it back, he'll wreck even more oil centers, and he'll deny me a useful airfield on north Borneo. And force the surrender of some ground troops to boot. He does risk getting his own troops trapped in a prison camp, but if he's smart, he loads them back up and sends them home to Singapore immediately. I suppose that's where my CVLs and surface ships come in, eh? Punish him before he can get the troops out -- assuming I win the surface combat and carrier engagements. Too bad it's all out of Netty torpedo range.

On the assumption that it is a counter-landing, I'm loading troops in Saigon, gathering a fresh surface group at Cam Ranh Bay and another fresh surface group at Manado (CA CA CA CL, already on the way from Palau). I may also move the CVLs a few hexes closer to Manado, so that it could sail together with that fresh surface group and my ASW groups, thus giving the CVLs the support you mention. And yes, I'm sending in submarines.

Incidentally, my opponent loves to be unpredictable, which is why I predict a counter-landing. (That and the fact that the only ship I spotted was an xAP.) It's interesting: he tends to play Sir Robin with his ground troops -- backpedaling in Malaya, Burma, the Philippines, the South Pacific -- but he fights me tooth and nail with his Navy, especially in the DEI.

Edit: Looking at the game again, I remembered that my CVLs do appear to be undetected. That might argue for your first piece of advice, Chicken-boy-san: keep them more or less where they are for a turn, retaining the possibility of surprise if he does circle the northeast of Borneo.

1942年1月1日

A sigh of relief
as sharks swim beyond Miri
to rescue their friends

1942年1月2日

The injured dolphin
swims slowly back to Palau
while Manado falls

It is already Jan. and you have just taken Manado? Hmm, you need to pick up the pace. I think your SNAFU going for Ambon has made you overly cautious. (Just look at how paranoid you got over losing Miri to a counter invasion.)

Bring the combined fleet down from the Home Islands, an air HQ to Menado, and forget about going back for more troops. Just pick up the ones already in theater and drop them on the next base. Invade, reload, invade. Don't worry about bringing in lots of fuel either, just use the bunkers from the xAKs to refuel everyone. And think about using "remain on station" for your amphib forces so they are ready to pick the guys up after capturing a base and move on to the next.

*bows to Cap and Gown* Yes, I had hoped to have my eyes on Timor by now. And yes, the debacle at Ambon has made me more cautious -- but also my opponent likes to sortie his surface ships to disrupt my landings, so I've felt the need to cover every landing with surface ships or mini-KB. I do think the Allied player has everything to gain by being aggressive, at least in the DEI, and not doing the Sir Robin thing. He can afford to lose surface ships on a one-to-one basis; I can't.

Thanks you also for the advice on air HQs.

My plan is Ambon next, although I see he's now got some sort of surface group lurking around Sorong, so I suppose I should confront that first. I hate the DEI.

1942年1月3日

Floating samurai
pass the Rabid Owl and steer
toward Port of More Bees

1942年1月4日

Five thousand hornets
wait at the Port of More Bees,
but none of them fly

---------------------------

Excellency, I cleverly forgot to move forward my battleship group, which is at Kavieng, so it is now a little behind the invasion force and Kido Butai. Perhaps it can catch up without slowing down the entire operation. I intend to use the surface group to cover the invasion and, probably, bombard. I have attached a map below.

In other news, I have forced enemy fighters out of Clark Field, and now they sit on the ground at Manila, whose airfield is also becoming pockmarked. Thus the way is now clear for naval attacks on enemy shipping still there. My Ki-21 bombers damaged some ships in port at Manila, and one squadron of G4M torpedo bombers reportedly sank an enemy destroyer as well. I have started seeing more enemy ships fleeing through the Dutch East Indies, where I am now loading up to invade Sorong, Ternate, and surrounding bases.

In Malaya, I took Taiping, cutting off Georgetown, and will begin the assault on Georgetown tomorrow. In Burma, I am marching north of Tavoy. In China, some small offensives to take poorly-defended resource centers, but my adversary and I are both relatively inactive there.

I am mulling over aircraft production. Here are some current numbers. I intend to expand Zero production, switch Lily production to Ki21-IIa Sally or Zero, and phase out Oscar I-a and I-b. With the newly-discovered drag on our heavy industry from trainee pilots (this being the "Hakko Ichiu" scenario), I have thus far been somewhat conservative with factory expansion, but I recognize I must expand more soon.

Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 28 in pool, 98 built/month, 14 repairing.
A6M2 Zero: 56 in pool, 92/month, 2 repairing. I assume I need to expand this. Among other things, I still have at least 2 Claude squadrons to upgrade -- one on CVE Taiyo, one in the Marshall Islands. (The Claudes in the Home Islands are fine as trainers.) CVE Taiyo is at Palau, unable to upgrade yet. My handling of my CVLs/CVEs has been downright comical, but that is another haiku, excellency.
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 13 in pool, 52/month, none repairing. I will want to try the Helen as well, but this is a very good medium bomber, and I foresee using many.
E13A1 Jake: 55 in pool, 50/month, 4 repairing. PDU is on, and I intend to switch other float planes to this model.
G4M1 Betty: 43 in pool, 50/month, 0 repairing.
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 86 in pool, 34/month, 0 repairing. Past due time to convert this to something else: perhaps A6M2, D3A Val, or Ki-21-IIa Sally. The excuse for my procrastination has been the many Lily squadrons yet to arrive, but I don't need this many.
D3A1 Val: 40 in pool, 24/month. I should expand this, or convert the Lily factory.
G3M2 Nell: 92 in pool, 22/month. Should phase out in favor of G4M.
Ki-56 Thalia: 0 in pool, 22/month. My army transport of choice.
Ki-15-II Babs: 23 in pool, 21/month. My recon plane of choice.
B5N1 Kate: 67 in pool, 20/month. Should phase this out and produce Val or B5N2 Kate.
Ki-43-Ia Oscar: 11 in pool, 20/month. Likewise, should convert this to something else.
B5N2 Kate: 67 in pool, 16/month.
H6K4 Mavis: 21 in pool, 12/month.
Ki-57 Topsy: 1 in pool, 12/month.
Ki-46-II Dinah: 21 in pool, 11/month.
E14Y1 Glen: 16 in pool, 9/month. (Even if I could upgrade these to Jakes, I wouldn't do so, for as I understand it the Jake couldn't operate on a submarine.)
C5M2 Babs: 12 in pool, 7/month.
L3Y1 Tina: 4 in pool 6/month. My navy transport of choice, until the Tabby.
Ki-46-I Dinah: 8 in pool, 5/month.
F1M2 Pete: 26 in pool, 3/month; not sure when to halt this in favor of Jake. I assume Pete squadrons can happily convert into Jake squadrons; I need to experiment to be sure. (Is it "gamey" to do this with ship-borne float planes? E.g., I always stuck with Glens in WITP for historical reasons.)
Still researching both Tojo and Tony, though I prefer the Tojo and will probably mostly produce that.

As for engines, my current under-produced models are:
Nakajima Ha-35: 110 in pool, 226/month, 74 repairing. Still probably not enough.
Mitsubishi Ha-32: 2 in pool, 118/month, 107 repairing. Possibly enough.
Ha-33: 25 i pool, 93/month, 57 repairing. Probably not enough.

All other engine models have large stockpiles and/or sufficient production for the time being.

Here is the promised image from the South Pacific. The main force is at Green Island, escorted by Kido Butai and an ASW group. As I mentioned, battleships at Kavieng. A smaller Buna/Gasmata invasion force is nearing Rabaul. Other ships are delivering an Air HQ to Rabaul. Invasion of Hollandia imminent to the north.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]很精彩，请继续[/font]

Grotius,

Everyone has their own preferences as IJ re: aircraft production. Permit me to make comments below based upon my own thoughts.

[quote]ORIGINAL: Grotius

Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 28 in pool, 98 built/month, 14 repairing. Sufficient.

A6M2 Zero: 56 in pool, 92/month, 2 repairing. I'm at 120/month.

Ki-21-IIa Sally: 13 in pool, 52/month, none repairing. Sufficient.

E13A1 Jake: 55 in pool, 50/month, 4 repairing. This seems slightly excessive. I am starting to build a pool of these after 4 months of production at 32 / month. I too will change most other float planes to the E13A1.

G4M1 Betty: 43 in pool, 50/month, 0 repairing. Sufficient

Ki-48-Ib Lily: 86 in pool, 34/month, 0 repairing. Past due time to convert this to something else: perhaps A6M2, D3A Val, or Ki-21-IIa Sally. The excuse for my procrastination has been the many Lily squadrons yet to arrive, but I don't need this many. Agree. Lilys are inferior to Sallies or Helens. However, they're better than Sonias, Anns and a few others. Why don't you start converting those other types to the Lilys and then d/c production in several months?


D3A1 Val: 40 in pool, 24/month. I'm producing 24 /month and it is a bare minimum. 30 may be better, particularly with a moderate-heavy use of KB.

G3M2 Nell: 92 in pool, 22/month. Keep it around, albeit at low production. It uses a different engine type than the Betty and Sally-it's nice to be able to keep torpedo LBA aircraft in production even if you must temporarily halt Betty production.

Ki-56 Thalia: 0 in pool, 22/month. My army transport of choice. Mine too. Good numbers.

Ki-15-II Babs: 23 in pool, 21/month. Dunno why, but I prefer the Dinah. S'OK, the Babs is alright. OK numbers.

B5N1 Kate: 67 in pool, 20/month. 20-25 B5N2s per month should be sufficient.

Ki-43-Ia Oscar: 11 in pool, 20/month. Likewise, should convert this to something else. Agree. Convert to Ki-43-Ic.

B5N2 Kate: 67 in pool, 16/month. Increase with conversion of your B5N1 factory.

H6K4 Mavis: 21 in pool, 12/month. Increase to 25 or so. Heavy Ops losses, repair and maintenance delays make me have sufficient 'reserve' planes on hand for the groups flying this boat.

Ki-57 Topsy: 1 in pool, 12/month. Discontinue. Produce the Ki-56 and then you can convert the now superfluous engine factory to something more useful.

Ki-46-II Dinah: 21 in pool, 11/month. OK

E14Y1 Glen: 16 in pool, 9/month. Sufficient.

C5M2 Babs: 12 in pool, 7/month. Don't recall...[&:]

L3Y1 Tina: 4 in pool 6/month. I will use until the Tinas are gone from the pool and then convert these units to Ki-56.

Ki-46-I Dinah: 8 in pool, 5/month. Don't recall. [&:]

F1M2 Pete: 26 in pool, 3/month; Halt immediately in favor of Jake. Don't think it's gamey to use and focus on the best plane design available to you instead of producing and using lesser airframes.

Still researching both Tojo and Tony, though I prefer the Tojo and will probably mostly produce that.
I'll probably produce both.

As for engines, my current under-produced models are:
Nakajima Ha-35: 110 in pool, 226/month, 74 repairing. I think I'm at something between 260-280 on Ha-35s. It's sufficient, but just.

Mitsubishi Ha-32: 2 in pool, 118/month, 107 repairing. Increase this? Remember that your 2e bombers will need two of these per airframe. I believe that the Mavis uses this engine (4x) and a few other models. Between your Betties and Sallies alone you'll need no fewer than 204. Factor in others for a full accounting and to build your pool.

Ha-33: 25 i pool, 93/month, 57 repairing. Probably not enough. Don't know.

*bows to championzhao* "很精彩，请继续" ありがとうございました; I certainly will.

*bows to 鳥少年さん (Chickenboy-san)* ありがとう for your very helpful comments. Some reactions:

Why don't you start converting those other types to the Lilys and then d/c production in several months?

I hadn't thought of that. Mostly I'm using Sonias and Anns for training and ASW, but as I have already shut off production of those older models, perhaps it makes sense to move everything into the Lily.

Dunno why, but I prefer the Dinah.

I'm keeping a few Dinah in production too. I guess I like the service rating (1) of the Babs; they're easier to keep flying, and I want naval-search or recon flying just about every day. But I think the later Dinahs have a slightly longer range, which is nice -- and their service rating of 2 is acceptable.

Discontinue. Produce the Ki-56

That's the plan. I just wanted to get everyone out of the obsolete Theresa first, and I just achieved that. Come to think of it, I should've "upgraded" some restricted-command Topsys to Theresas, then switched the front-line Theresas to Topsys, then eventually converted everything to Ki-56. Anyway, I'll get everyone into the Ki-56 in due course; I like its slightly longer range and good cargo load.

I will use until the Tinas are gone from the pool and then convert these units to Ki-56.

Ah, but I believe the Tina is a Navy transport, and it's the only Navy transport you can produce for months. I think in mid-42 we'll be able to produce the transport version of the Mavis, a few of which start in the Marshalls -- also a good plane, though with a high service rating. The L2D2 Tabby doesn't show up at all until late 1943. (I lobbied for earlier inclusion of the Tabby, which was produced by Japan throughout the war and in decent numbers in 1942, but the developers said it wasn't included in organized transport units until 43-44. That's probably true, but it surely was used to shuttle top brass around and stuff -- the sort of thing I'd like to use it for.) So at game start, the Tina is the only Navy show in town. I'm continuing the trickle of production so that I can replace operational losses. It's currently air-transporting a base force from Cam Ranh Bay all the way to Miri, which is nice. (As I've mentioned, my opponent just loves to sprinkle surface ships around the DEI to harass my transports.)

Halt immediately in favor of Jake. Don't think it's gamey to use and focus on the best plane design available to you instead of producing and using lesser airframes.

Thank you -- you're telling me what I want to hear. Even with its short range, the Pete is OK for ASW onboard a ship, but the Jake is just better. Yes, I may be overproducing Jakes; I can always halt them for a while after I'm done upgrading everything.

I'll probably produce both (Tojo and Tony).

Me too. I know the service-rating strongly favors the Tojo, but I'm curious to see how the Tony performs too. In some ways I see this PBEM as my first "learning game." I don't have time to play a parallel AI game into 1943, so I'll see how the Tony performs for myself in this PBEM. That said, I'll mostly produce the Tojo, I suspect.

Mitsubishi Ha-32: 2 in pool, 118/month, 107 repairing. Increase this? Remember that your 2e bombers will need two of these per airframe.

Yes, I underestimated the need for this at game start for the reason you stated: I forgot I'd need two of them per airframe for the 2-engine bombers. I had a head-slapping moment 10 days ago and immediately increased output. Even with 107 repairing, that may not be enough. Obviously I'm hurting for the engines right now, with only 2 in the pool.

1942年1月5日

The big shark attacks
eating a dozen small fish
and sinking their eggs

------------------------------------

KB sank 12 ships in the Milne Bay and Port Moresby area! This as my invasion force approached Port Moresby. The victims included 7 transports, several of which were carrying troops. Also a PG, a DD, and 3 tankers. He is reinforcing Port Moresby! I had been convinced of the opposite: I've seen only 4,000 troops there for days now. Suddenly today I see 12,000 troops. Also, I suspect there are a few more ships around Port Moresby; my air-search in this area is not all it could be, and inexplicably I trained it on everything *except* Port Moresby last turn. I now have several questions for my fellow samurai.

1. Will the 4th Division still be enough to take Port Moresby? I do have two regiments in reserve, one at Rabaul, one at Truk.

2. My larger immediate question is how to get my transports to the target. I had intended to have BB Yamashiro lead the transports to the target (see map below), but it is lagging behind, slowed by an 18-knot CL that I stupidly included in the surface group. (I am normally quite fussy about speed in my task forces; I don't understand how I messed this one up.) So, how to regroup? An infantry division is too precious an asset to lose because it becomes separated from its surface cover. And I don't want KB to serve as surface cover! I intend to move it north/northeast; more on this in a moment. I see two options for the transports:

a. Set the surface group destination to Port Moresby, transports set to follow. Presumably they would link up...somewhere between Milne Bay and Port Moresby. But given that I just sank some surface ships in this area, this option makes me uncomfortable.

b. Move the transports to Milne Bay, unload some/all of the troops there, and rendez-vous with the surface group there. I hadn't planned this, but I'm leaning this way. What do you think? Would unloading at an empty base unduly disrupt/damage the division?

3. Finally, what to do with KB? I used about 1/3 of my complement of torpedoes in the strike. Two squadrons of Zeroes are tired (fatigue over 10) and slightly demoralized (97, 98). The bombers are in good shape, though some have fatigue in the 8-10 range. I see only one sub in the immediate area, but more will surely be on their way shortly. I'm inclined to move KB a few hexes east of Buna to take another crack at any ships near Port Moresby/Milne Bay, but another option might be to move to Rabaul to rearm and rest for a turn. (An Air HQ just arrived there; will that help KB reload torpedoes? It's still only a level 3 airfield.) I incline toward staying on station, but I'm not sure. My opponent is on holiday for a week, so I have plenty of time to mull it over! Any advice would be appreciated.

My goodness you are fussy. "Somewhat fatigued" = 10??? [8|][8|]

Use the KB to blockade PM. He is not going to be sending shipping into the area while your CVs are there. (Unless he likes to see his ships sunk.) The division should still be enough. More than enough, really. Plus, you have reserves. The only thing you might want to have in addition is a replenishment TF. What did you do with the one you start out with? Do they still have fuel aboard? I say this because you may need to keep the KB on station for a little while maintaining the blockade on the off chance you need to bring in reinforcements to PM. But don't decide on reinforcements just because the first attack fails. Give it a couple of tries before deciding whether you have enough. His forts are probably at level 3. Those will come down after each assault, making your job progressively easier.