Matrix Games Forums

February 12/13 1942

Mostly air operations as Japan prepares to land at Palembang.

At Davao, the Japanese fortifications are reduced:

Allied Shock attack
 
Attacking force 9932 troops, 81 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 368
 
Defending force 2883 troops, 19 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 68
 
Allied adjusted assault: 184
 
Japanese adjusted defense: 151
 
Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1)
 
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
 experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), supply(-)
 
Japanese ground losses:
      416 casualties reported
         Squads: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      1261 casualties reported
         Squads: 1 destroyed, 91 disabled
         Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 56 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
 
 
Assaulting units:
    103rd PA Infantry Regiment
    102nd PA Infantry Regiment
    101st PA Infantry Regiment
    102nd PA Infantry Division
    III Philippine Corps
 
Defending units:
    Miura Det
    Bandasan SNLF
    22nd JAAF AF Bn

February 13/14 1942

Minor submarine actions, especially near Merak with the Dutch pulling out ahead of the expected landings at Palembang.

Shock attack at Davao does not take the town.

More minor actions.

Quiet.

My opponent's comment: "The myth of Japanese invencibility is shattered at Davao."

Overall, not a good turn for the Japanese Army. He has been diffident about taking minor bases, and I managed to form the III Philippine Corps in Mindanao. The attack at Davao vindicated the spirit of the Philippine troops. I don't expect to hold the island until the Allies return, but it does give me a nice base for a while.

Ground combat at Davao (79,91)
 
Allied Shock attack
 
Attacking force 6628 troops, 53 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 237
 
Defending force 4302 troops, 31 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 108
 
Allied adjusted assault: 254
 
Japanese adjusted defense: 124
 
Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)
 
Allied forces CAPTURE Davao !!!
 
Japanese aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-)
Attacker: shock(+)
 
Japanese ground losses:
      620 casualties reported
         Squads: 17 destroyed, 9 disabled
         Non Combat: 37 destroyed, 11 disabled
         Engineers: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled
      Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
      Vehicles lost 5 (5 destroyed, 0 disabled)
      Units retreated 4
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      701 casualties reported
         Squads: 3 destroyed, 45 disabled
         Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 32 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
      Units pursuing 2
 
 
Assaulting units:
    101st PA Infantry Regiment
    102nd PA Infantry Regiment
    103rd PA Infantry Regiment
    102nd PA Infantry Division
    III Philippine Corps
 
Defending units:
    Bandasan SNLF
    Miura Det
    16th Naval Guard Unit
    22nd JAAF AF Bn

Ground combat at 88,57 (near Wenchow)
 
Japanese Shock attack
 
Attacking force 38582 troops, 324 guns, 97 vehicles, Assault Value = 1221
 
Defending force 16469 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 372
 
Japanese adjusted assault: 748
 
Allied adjusted defense: 622
 
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)
 
Japanese ground losses:
      1522 casualties reported
         Squads: 2 destroyed, 53 disabled
         Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
         Engineers: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      1301 casualties reported
         Squads: 3 destroyed, 111 disabled
         Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 46 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
 
 
Assaulting units:
    22nd Division
    17th Division
    116th Division

Ground combat at Nanyang (85,45)
 
Japanese Shock attack
 
Attacking force 74059 troops, 630 guns, 740 vehicles, Assault Value = 2464
 
Defending force 62637 troops, 399 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1346
 
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
 
Japanese adjusted assault: 2124
 
Allied adjusted defense: 819
 
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)
 
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)
 
Japanese ground losses:
      8234 casualties reported
         Squads: 8 destroyed, 514 disabled
         Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 448 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled
      Vehicles lost 172 (6 destroyed, 166 disabled)
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      6193 casualties reported
         Squads: 19 destroyed, 179 disabled
         Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 280 disabled
         Engineers: 2 destroyed, 38 disabled
 
 
Assaulting units:
    110th Division
    3rd Tank Regiment
    15th Tank Regiment
    37th Division
    27th Division
    5th Tank Regiment
    36th Division
    9th Tank Regiment
    23rd Tank Regiment
    35th Division
    12th Tank Regiment
    10th Tank Regiment
    5th Armored Car Co
    41st Division
    8th Armored Car Co
    11th Tank Regiment
 
Defending units:
    1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
    12th Chinese Corps
    3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
    4th Construction Regiment
    98th Chinese Corps
    9th Chinese Corps
    29th Chinese Corps
    36th Chinese Corps
    90th Chinese Corps
    15th Chinese Corps
    41st Chinese Corps
    48th Chinese/B Corps
    39th Group Army
    4th Chinese Base Force
    36th Group Army
    Jingcha War Area
    5th War Area
    15th Group Army
    14th Group Army
    1st War Area
    7th Construction Regiment
    22nd Group Army
    3rd Group Army
    31st Group Army
    10th Chinese Base Force

February 17/18 1942

Generally quiet.

February 18/19 1942

Minor actions.

Minor actions.

Minor actions.

February 21/22

Shock attack at Nanyang led by armoured units does not capture the city but produces major Chinese losses.

Japanese Shock attack
 
Attacking force 69432 troops, 630 guns, 740 vehicles, Assault Value = 2194
 
Defending force 69681 troops, 511 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1386
 
Japanese adjusted assault: 2211
 
Allied adjusted defense: 652
 
Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)
 
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+)
 
Japanese ground losses:
      1228 casualties reported
         Squads: 2 destroyed, 141 disabled
         Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 231 disabled
         Engineers: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
      Vehicles lost 142 (17 destroyed, 125 disabled)
 
 
Allied ground losses:
      9038 casualties reported
         Squads: 37 destroyed, 296 disabled
         Non Combat: 38 destroyed, 480 disabled
         Engineers: 1 destroyed, 72 disabled
 
 
Assaulting units:
    5th Tank Regiment
    37th Division
    36th Division
    23rd Tank Regiment
    35th Division
    3rd Tank Regiment
    12th Tank Regiment
    41st Division
    8th Armored Car Co
    5th Armored Car Co
    9th Tank Regiment
    27th Division
    110th Division
    10th Tank Regiment
    15th Tank Regiment
    11th Tank Regiment
 
Defending units:
    1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
    90th Chinese Corps
    7th Chinese Corps
    96th Chinese Corps
    4th Construction Regiment
    3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
    98th Chinese Corps
    36th Chinese Corps
    29th Chinese Corps
    12th Chinese Corps
    15th Chinese Corps
    9th Chinese Corps
    84th Chinese Corps
    41st Chinese Corps
    48th Chinese/B Corps
    1st War Area
    22nd Group Army
    36th Group Army
    31st Group Army
    14th Group Army
    15th Group Army
    7th Construction Regiment
    5th War Area
    39th Group Army
    3rd Group Army
    4th Chinese Base Force
    Jingcha War Area
    10th Chinese Base Force

Why are you defending in Nanyang?

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Why are you defending in Nanyang?

Urban terrain, useful entry point onto the plain, lots of stuff got forced back into the city from positions further forward, engineers to keep the defences up, and unlike reality, it's rather hard to pull out of a position under active attack. It's key terrain for that part of the battlefield. If he wants it, he'll have to pay cash.

I've found that with Nanyang it's the Chinese defenders that pay cash. The terrain to the north is x3 for defense. A better idea (with Nanyang) is to preserve the force and allow it to build (it seems as though something roughly like 1/3 of Chinese squads begin the game disabled). You've taken very big casualties and will take even bigger when finally evicted from the hex. So far most have been disablements, but when thrown out there will be lots destroyed too. It will be a very long campaign in China. If you allow your forces to be crushed too badly it will be all IJA from then on.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I've found that with Nanyang it's the Chinese defenders that pay cash. The terrain to the north is x3 for defense. A better idea (with Nanyang) is to preserve the force and allow it to build (it seems as though something roughly like 1/3 of Chinese squads begin the game disabled). You've taken very big casualties and will take even bigger when finally evicted from the hex. So far most have been disablements, but when thrown out there will be lots destroyed too. It will be a very long campaign in China. If you allow your forces to be crushed too badly it will be all IJA from then on.

The game doesn't let you conduct a retreat or delay in any sort of realistic sense. Building is very slow. Don't get me started again on the combat model.

By the way, Nanyang is surrounded by Chinese-occupied hexes, so he isn't getting resupplied. The engineers have been rebuilding the fortifications about as fast as they've been reduced. He has a number of hexes in the same situation.

Trust me, all comment will be made within the context of the combat model.

This situation is completely different than the vanilla description implies. in fact it deserves a screenshot!

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Trust me, all comment will be made within the context of the combat model.

This situation is completely different than the vanilla description implies. in fact it deserves a screenshot!

Here's the South China situation.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Trust me, all comment will be made within the context of the combat model.

This situation is completely different than the vanilla description implies. in fact it deserves a screenshot!

Here's the North China situation.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Trust me, all comment will be made within the context of the combat model.

This situation is completely different than the vanilla description implies. in fact it deserves a screenshot!

Commentary:

Most of the units spread over the combat area are goo. I have a database of over 100 battles in China now, and it is clear that there is no advantage for China to concentrate its forces unless forced to (Nanyang) or the Japanese can't get there in time to intervene. If Japan can get 1-1 with a shock attack, it will win, and the game engine produces such widely absurd casualty numbers that the larger the Chinese force, the larger the Chinese casualties. There is no advantage to defending with a regiment in terrain that gives a 3x multiplier if all it does is lead the Japanese player to attack with a division rather than a regiment. Better to cover three hexes with battalions. So I break down any small to medium sized Chinese force to give me more goo. Rebuilding is very slow compared with the tempo the Japanese player can generate, so I don't wait for it, either.

I'm following this philosophy in the remainder of the map. I never garrison a hex with more than a battalion if I can avoid it, and I concentrate my offensive assets in deathstars. It's what the ground combat engine likes a lot and rewards. You want to minimise your gravitational entropy in this game.

Minor actions.

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Trust me, all comment will be made within the context of the combat model.

This situation is completely different than the vanilla description implies. in fact it deserves a screenshot!

Commentary:

Most of the units spread over the combat area are goo. I have a database of over 100 battles in China now, and it is clear that there is no advantage for China to concentrate its forces unless forced to (Nanyang) or the Japanese can't get there in time to intervene. If Japan can get 1-1 with a shock attack, it will win, and the game engine produces such widely absurd casualty numbers that the larger the Chinese force, the larger the Chinese casualties. There is no advantage to defending with a regiment in terrain that gives a 3x multiplier if all it does is lead the Japanese player to attack with a division rather than a regiment. Better to cover three hexes with battalions. So I break down any small to medium sized Chinese force to give me more goo. Rebuilding is very slow compared with the tempo the Japanese player can generate, so I don't wait for it, either.

I'm following this philosophy in the remainder of the map. I never garrison a hex with more than a battalion if I can avoid it, and I concentrate my offensive assets in deathstars. It's what the ground combat engine likes a lot and rewards. You want to minimise your gravitational entropy in this game.

Agreed. Add that, for the Chinese at least, Shock Attacks are often counterproductive. They have to be used at the right time. This is actually true even for the IJA forces, although they can get away with more. A Shock Attack at the right time is devastating to the defender. A Shock Attack at the wrong time is devastating for the attacker.

As to "There is no advantage to defending with a regiment in terrain that gives a 3x multiplier if all it does is lead the Japanese player to attack with a division rather than a regiment.": When the Chinese are able to defend with enough in the good terrain, IJ has to bring in so much that they leave vulnerabilities elsewhere. Those must be attacked so that eventually the menace of it reduces IJ adventures, gaining general stability in China.