Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
With that said, I'm not our marketing department but I do see from this side what's going on and they are not sitting on their hands, they are getting ready for the various announcements and other PR related to this release.

You are doing a marvellous job in Product Development Erik.

Now, who can I annoy in the Marketing Department, and are they reading this forum?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: DevildogFF
Your marketing strategy is CRAP, Matrix. Why haven't we heard a FREAKING THING about Universe?

If it weren't for Distant Worlds being really good, I would write you off. Why must we pry and pry!?

Because we're not ready yet - I understand the anticipation is hard from where you are sitting, but you wouldn't be happy if we released more information before we were ready. We will give enough notice and preview information before the release to make sure everyone is informed about it.

Erik, out of interest, has your Marketing Department had a look around the forums of some of your competitors? I assume they have for Competitive Intelligence. So why is it that Stardrive 2 and Galactic Civilisations 3 can trickle out information, while Distant Worlds Universe has almost nothing? Just be careful about what is released ...

Hi guys,

It's all a group effort and we work together from the Development and Marketing side. Ultimately our marketing folks take the lead in determining the promotion timing, but where we are in terms of development and art has a huge effect on that. I'm sure marketing would have preferred us to get more of the development and art done earlier so that promotion could start earlier, but that's not always possible. We're discussing the release and promotion timing each week though - I'll see if we can start sending out some more information.

As Phil said above, statements about incompetence, malice or subterfuge are really not on target or appropriate. We're all doing the best we can to get this release finished, polished and tested, setup a great promotion effort and get it in all of your hands. As always, we want Distant Worlds to succeed as much as possible in every way. We all share the same interest and goals here, it's just that things look very different depending on which side of the fence you are looking from.

Regards,

- Erik

Incidentally, I've watched a few of Angry Joe's reviews as well - I hope that he and many other reviewers will take a look at Distant Worlds: Universe. However, it's always worth pointing out that the budget for Distant Worlds is nowhere near his favorites with the Total War series. As long as the more mainstream reviewers keep that perspective, accept the 2D graphics and focus on the gameplay, I think they'll love it. We'd be happy to give him a preview or review copy.

Regards,

- Erik

In that case you might be find his FTL review interesting. And his latest Total War Rome II review.

C'mon Angry Joe ... if you are the 4X fan you claim to be ... now is the time. But Erik it's really up to your marketing department to get on the front foot. Just tell Marketing to send some Silvermist ...

I don't care about mainstream marketing.What would be nice is for fans to actually hear about the game during development and that is what companies like Paradox,stardock and even CA does very well.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

We're no longer aiming for the end of March, but we are close. Delays can arise for many reasons - development, art, marketing time, etc. I can't say more right now, but as soon as possible we'll share more information with you all.

Regards,

- Erik

Ahw, too bad [:(]

After a long time lurking, I had finaly decided to give DW a chance. Obviousley I will have to wait even a bit longer.

No chance of a preorder of DW: Universe that would let us to download the former titels in the series? [:)]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,
It's all a group effort and we work together from the Development and Marketing side. Ultimately our marketing folks take the lead in determining the promotion timing, but where we are in terms of development and art has a huge effect on that. I'm sure marketing would have preferred us to get more of the development and art done earlier so that promotion could start earlier, but that's not always possible. We're discussing the release and promotion timing each week though - I'll see if we can start sending out some more information.
As Phil said above, statements about incompetence, malice or subterfuge are really not on target or appropriate. We're all doing the best we can to get this release finished, polished and tested, setup a great promotion effort and get it in all of your hands. As always, we want Distant Worlds to succeed as much as possible in every way. We all share the same interest and goals here, it's just that things look very different depending on which side of the fence you are looking from.

Regards,
- Erik

Having worked in software development earlier in my life and watching the roll out of major products that put Distant worlds to shame as far as size of project is concerned (this is not meant in insult), and watched them be disasters because they slammed and jammed (and other terms I can no longer use) I am thankful for the work you all do in all aspects.
I appreciate the different stressors on any project large or small.
Looks like all you guys are doing a good job from this old veteran programmer/troubleshooter's point of view.

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,
It's all a group effort and we work together from the Development and Marketing side. Ultimately our marketing folks take the lead in determining the promotion timing, but where we are in terms of development and art has a huge effect on that. I'm sure marketing would have preferred us to get more of the development and art done earlier so that promotion could start earlier, but that's not always possible. We're discussing the release and promotion timing each week though - I'll see if we can start sending out some more information.
As Phil said above, statements about incompetence, malice or subterfuge are really not on target or appropriate. We're all doing the best we can to get this release finished, polished and tested, setup a great promotion effort and get it in all of your hands. As always, we want Distant Worlds to succeed as much as possible in every way. We all share the same interest and goals here, it's just that things look very different depending on which side of the fence you are looking from.

Regards,
- Erik

Having worked in software development earlier in my life and watching the roll out of major products that put Distant worlds to shame as far as size of project is concerned (this is not meant in insult), and watched them be disasters because they slammed and jammed (and other terms I can no longer use) I am thankful for the work you all do in all aspects.
I appreciate the different stressors on any project large or small.
Looks like all you guys are doing a good job from this old veteran programmer/troubleshooter's point of view.

Truth be known...the number of problems a project has is directly proportional to the size of the project and the number of staff that are working on said project. An issue of too many cooks in the kitchen, to borrow an old saying.

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I don't care about mainstream marketing.What would be nice is for fans to actually hear about the game during development and that is what companies like Paradox,stardock and even CA does very well.

I fully agree we could hear more during development, as I posted earlier, with examples.

The mainstream marketing isn't for us, at least not directly. Like me, you are already checking out new products of interest. But if bringing this game to a broader audience helps increase the size of the community, leading to a mega-mod or two, and helps fund a bigger and better Distant Worlds 2 ... then yes I'm very interested in mainstream marketing.

Not so long ago I didn't participate in any gaming forums. I was not aware of SpaceSector. I most certainly did not go searching for 4X games. But if I had seen this game on the mainstream media, which is all I was tracking at the time, I would have been a guaranteed sale.

As I've posted before I completely agree with the comments made to be patient before release. Both in the Forums here and on SpaceSector Erik made it clear it was just a schedule, not a promise.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Currently scheduled for late Q1 2014.

That said, like others it's been interesting observing, across many games, when community feedback is positive, and negative. In my own line of work, expectation management is crucial ... even the worst community feedback on gaming sites looks downright mild compared to what I've seen in recent years. I can imagine the frustration when there is negative feedback after experiencing it personally as well.

A constructive suggestion is to always test before communications that it's likely to be "underpromise and overdeliver". It sounds simple but it's not, I always have to remind myself of this when excited about something we are delivering, and always regret it when I forget it. So in this case, if the internal estimate was late Q1, I would have been communicating externally it was more like Q2. This suggestion equally applies as much to game features and information that maybe trickled to the community.

I feel the need to add one last part to my general attempts at open discussion on the whole issue of how this expansion has been lacking information.

A number of posters have said how video game design isn't like other software design, or how it isn't like any other industry or manufacturing process etc etc. Since when did video game design gain the right to sit atop a pinnacle of righteousness that sets it apart from any other industry or job in the world?

If a person is as skilled as they can possibly be within their respective field of work and they also spend time keeping their skills up to date. Then all jobs are equally hard & simple. Quantum physics may well be an extremely complex and difficult undertaking unless you happen to be a full trained quantum physicist, in which case it is now no more difficult than flipping burgers in a large fast food franchise if that was your career. I have never worked in any sort of software development but that does not mean I don't realise it is not mystical magiks going on behind the doors.

A well known phrase in my country is that a bad workman will always blame his tools, that seems to be what is happening here with comments regarding how hard video game design is. If a person finds their job particularly difficult it is for one of two reasons only. Either they do not possess the needed skillset for that job to begin with, or they have allowed their skills to become obsolete within the field.

One quick note is that some folks have taken some of my potentially harsh comments about the expansion and such as a demand for wanting it right now without delays. I have stated a number of times I do not care when it is done and the delays are not a factor. My issue is that firstly almost nothing was given out as information about the expansion other than a half baked 30 second interview on a single site. I understand Matrix may not sell itself on the major gaming sites and that is perfectly fine, but they do have some pretty extensive forums and other social media systems in place that I am willing to wager hold the vast majority of their games customer base.
My only (yes I only have a grand total of two) complaint is how a delay comes about so close to release that no one saw it coming, then to not inform a potential customer base on the exact reasons for the delay. From a business perspective I have had delays where I knew I would fail to meet a deadline or appointment, everything from equipment failure to personal problems. Only once did this cause me a problem because I failed to keep a customer informed, that was a hard lesson but one I learned. No customer in the world really cares about waiting a little longer provided they are not hanging in limbo for the reason why.

So far we have had one single post (not a thread or announcement) regarding the delay, and that seems to have only happened because folks were starting to become agitated an demanding answers and making accusations about the quality of Matrix games marketing. If that delay was genuine and if it was only just discovered the week of the post then unfortunately it will have a hard time being seen as such. Instead it appears as though this happened in the publishers office. "Dammit those customers types are asking questions around here how long before we have a product?" "Hmm could be awhile we hit a snag some time back" "What snag?" "Oh just some stuff it should be fine in a couple or few months maybe" "Ok give them the usual fluff about some software delay and then leave them hanging for more, it should buy us at least a couple of weeks before the sharks come back". I would hate for that scenario to be true and I honestly do not believe it really happens with the exception of a few very rare instances in the gaming world. But by keeping quiet all Matrix Games is doing is throwing fuel to the rumour mongers.

I was looking forward to the expansion and now I really don't care about it that much, I may get it I may not do. But I will definitely not be buying before around June/July time when it has been tested to death in the wider community and the full extend of modding realised by forum members. This I think is a shame considering I have been a supporter of this game since the first day buggy release, since then it has grown and matured at the hands of a very skilled developer in my opinion. Now it has been broadsided by the all too common publishers woes that seem to be systemic in the gaming world of late.

feygan you do have a point. There are 180 software development projects running where I work at the moment of various complexities and time scales. If the Project Manager advised in March that he wasn't going to be delivering in March ... more than a few words would be said ... as it's highly likely there were warning signs earlier. That said, it is also worth having reasonable expectations for a small publisher. I certainly don't expect them to have Project Management Systems like we have (that don't come cheap I might add) and it's a creative process which increases uncertainty.

So all I can say is that I really hope to be talking Universe with you sometime.

ORIGINAL: feygan
Quantum physics may well be an extremely complex and difficult undertaking unless you happen to be a full trained quantum physicist, in which case it is now no more difficult than flipping burgers in a large fast food franchise if that was your career.

Interesting that you should use that as an example. I'm a theoretical chemist who now works in making scientific software - software which attempts to be scientifically predictive. I can assure you that science does not operate like that in any way whatsoever. It doesn't become assembly line production once you're skilled at it. It will always be highly speculative, frequently leading to dead ends, etc.

The most brilliant scientists in any field can spend years struggling with something. To say that they should've been able to schedule solving Problem X by Date Y is simply absurd.

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

ORIGINAL: feygan
Quantum physics may well be an extremely complex and difficult undertaking unless you happen to be a full trained quantum physicist, in which case it is now no more difficult than flipping burgers in a large fast food franchise if that was your career.

Interesting that you should use that as an example. I'm a theoretical chemist who now works in making scientific software - software which attempts to be scientifically predictive. I can assure you that science does not operate like that in any way whatsoever. It doesn't become assembly line production once you're skilled at it. It will always be highly speculative, frequently leading to dead ends, etc.

The most brilliant scientists in any field can spend years struggling with something. To say that they should've been able to schedule solving Problem X by Date Y is simply absurd.

However when was the last time a skilled scientist blamed their delays on "but my job is very hard"? My point stands simply as no job in the world is harder or easier than any other except when seen from an opposing job, in this case the only thing making a job harder is a lack of skills relevant to the field.

I fully agree that any scientist who is dealing in theoretical research can never give even an approximation of completion time, but then do most theoretical scientists also not do a lot of secretive work? By this I mean they are keeping their findings hidden to themselves to prevent someone from beating them to the post. I really can't see any instance in which such secrecy is needed for a simple game expansion, there are no grand new ideas to steal and you already have an established customer base that isn't going to get stolen. Also not having a clue about completion times only flies when you are in the theory stage, once any process moves into practical stages a worker can begin to give estimates that will become more finite as the project progresses. DW:U was due for release in March so it's safe to guess the theory part is long behind. But yet again I will explain that is not my issue as my entire problem comes from a total lack of information offered by a publisher that would appear to claim to want money from me and you. Information that someone somewhere must know at this point and has decided for some reason not to release.

Oh, I'm not defending Matrix's secrecy. I think they should be much more forthcoming with details and information. I'm just saying that their slipped released date isn't some sign of incompetence. Some fields of work have fundamental research associated with them, and I'd put game development into that category (fun factor, balance, AI).

But yes, I wish Matrix would be much more forthcoming with information - not just on features, but also on where they stand with the schedule. Erik has said they won't make March, but that they're "close" - does close mean early April? by the end of April? by summer? A little info would go a long way!

True enough and I do not think the slipped date blame lies with the developer, he has proven his ability numerous times as anyone who played the first release can attest. This is why it appears to be either incompetence or deliberate with holding of information on the publishers part.

Let's please drop the incompetence idea feygan. I really don't agree with it or consider it constructive.

I'm not saying that is 100% the cause of this and I have never sated as such. But there are only a number of factors that can cause such a lack of information and one of them is incompetence. To eliminate it just because it causes unpleasent feelings will leave you with the only possibilty of a deliberate choice to with hold information with opens up speculation of dishonesty and other such rumours. Neither I nor any of us are likely at this time to know enough to say a possible factor is true or not true so I use the term just to be objective and unbiased.

Hi Feygan,

What you're doing is just speculating, but it rises close to the level of trolling. As you said, you can't know what is true or isn't, so it's best in those cases to extend the benefit of the doubt to all parties. We're all working hard to get Distant Worlds: Universe to you all as soon as possible.

Regards,

- Erik