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RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:53 pm
by M60A3TTS
ORIGINAL: STEF78
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Your inexperienced opponent didn't leave a sufficient garrison at Baku. So go ahead and finish him off there, but I'd suggest you not linger too long.
In fact he didn't follow (read?) the advice of stacking 3 rifle corps in Baku.
Not sure he would have been able to keep the city even with such troops.
I'm really stronger than him in this area.
In another PBEM game, I defended with one corps and two divisions. The battle raged on for three weeks before the Germans withdrew.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:57 pm
by STEF78
You have no penalty for your rifle corps: did you hold the hex behind the city?
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:13 pm
by timmyab
I have no experience of defending Baku but I feel that it should be given top priority and you should be able to make it virtually impregnable with two or three strong armies under a front HQ.
Your opponent made a mistake by defending too forward. The outer defenses should start at Makhachkala and if the Germans make it as far as Derbent they should be looking at a big 'no entry' sign.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:31 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: timmyab
I have no experience of defending Baku but I feel that it should be given top priority and you should be able to make it virtually impregnable with two or three strong armies under a front HQ.
Your opponent made a mistake by defending too forward. The outer defenses should start at Makhachkala and if the Germans make it as far as Derbent they should be looking at a big 'no entry' sign.
He actually showed itself too optimistic by considering himself capable of resoldering his armies of Grozny with those of the North.
It is an error that he repeated several times in the game. Sometimes, it is really worth to give ground.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:14 pm
by M60A3TTS
ORIGINAL: STEF78
You have no penalty for your rifle corps: did you hold the hex behind the city?
There is no penalty. Rule 20.1.2
Soviet permanent supply sources:
„h Chelyabinsk
„h Baku
As it is a permanent supply source, Baku cannot be isolated. As a result I would argue it's the most impregnable hex in the game.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:36 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
ORIGINAL: STEF78
You have no penalty for your rifle corps: did you hold the hex behind the city?
There is no penalty. Rule 20.1.2
Soviet permanent supply sources:
„h Chelyabinsk
„h Baku
As it is a permanent supply source, Baku cannot be isolated. As a result I would argue it's the most impregnable hex in the game.
I agree with this point. Units in Baku can't be isolated.
My question is: were these units reporting to an HQ, did the german player do a full encirclement. I suppose it was not as I see bomber losses which means that there were fighters close from Baku. I think that your opponent didn't use the right way to take the city
At least the city could be garrisonned with 2 rifle corps and an HQ
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:08 pm
by M60A3TTS
They were reporting to 44th Army HQ and Transcaucasus Front, both far from Baku. So the defenders would not get help from support units.
Full 4 hex encirclement with 7 attacking units.
I wasn't defending with 3 rifle corps either, effectively half that. As you say, I could have done 2 + HQ but I think in theory 3 corps would defend better. And of course they would all have sapper attachments.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:19 pm
by timmyab
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
They were reporting to 44th Army HQ and Transcaucasus Front, both far from Baku.
To my mind this is one of the fundamental problems with the game. Without the benefit of a nearby HQ I don't understand why your units in Baku get inflated CVs. In a sane world they would fall if anything.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:15 pm
by gingerbread
It's Urban terrain, so dense terrain benefits are not taken into account in the Combat Val displayed for the defender (bug is filed). It is in the Modified Combat Val, so the final result is correct.
2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:43 pm
by STEF78
Turn 100, 13th may 1943
frogmarc has underestimated the mobility of my pzd/mot.
His troops Southwest of Astrakhan will pay the price for it!
Near Stalingrad, I cut the rail but will face an heavy counterattack
2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:45 pm
by STEF78
And of course his airbases on the rail line were destroyed
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:06 pm
by Tarhunnas
That concentration of Guards corps on the Caspian coast did look very vulnerable. With Baku gone they could just as well have retreated to Astrakhan.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:08 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
That concentration of Guards corps on the Caspian coast did look very vulnerable. With Baku gone they could just as well have retreated to Astrakhan.
Agreed, he will loose very good troops!
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:41 pm
by M60A3TTS
Is this the standard 290VP to auto-win or the alt 260?
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:59 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Is this the standard 290VP to auto-win or the alt 260?
290 VP
2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:50 am
by STEF78
Turn 102, 27 may 1943
Cleaning of the Pocket and of the western bank of the Volga.
Strong soviet mech and tank corps arriving from the north. Once Astrakhan lost, I didn't thought he would fight for this area.
Pushed back in Stalingrad.
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 am
by Wuffer
not many games show a continuing offensive like this, and even fewer games are decided in '43...
great AAR
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:53 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: Wuffer
not many games show a continuing offensive like this, and even fewer games are decided in '43...
great AAR
in fact I'm wondering if I'm not making a strategical mistake while fighting in this area. The key is Moscow not Astrakhan.
But creating this Pocket was such a temptation!!!
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:03 am
by Wuffer
Yeah, you destroyed once more a lot of stuff, but OTOH the game is neither won nor decided by occupying Astrakhan or Baku alone - the ground is more or less worthless, I think, and your only chance remains a pocket of his most valueable strikeunits, like the MechCorps etc.
This is not the mortal blow yet... ---> concentrate the panzers once more, you could even shorten the line
RE: 2 frogs in mild blizzard (frogmarc welcome)
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:37 am
by M60A3TTS
The ground is not worthless as it contains Soviet population centers that give the Red Army its troop strength. Also, their troop replacement values aren't as high as they used to be.
Stef will have the win as long things continue to go as they have.
