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I perfectly understand how dropping a great player can be 'difficult' for a coach, but I don't understand the idea that "it is not an option".

The coach has a problem with the guy's massive ego? Well dropping him and bringing him down a peg or two can be a pretty useful tool in reducing the size of that ego. If the player has anything about him, he will then have a point to prove to the coach - which can only be a good thing if it means upping his game.

Yes, to drop they guy at this stage of the competition, I agree is not an option as if Portugal fail to qualify the coach will get the blame. But during - and indeed after - a relatively poor qualification I think a warning shot across the bows was needed. If he is playing THAT badly then the coach will have the support of the public too.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think Portugal has the same problem that England has. When you get a decent player he is built up so much that he becomes undroppable, unsubstitutable - no matter how bad they may be playing. It then gets into really bizarre territory when those players are picked even when injured or not fully match fit.

It's a real problem - and a real managerial weakness. Even Capello, for all his big talk and big reputation, even he went down the same path.

As far as I can see, as an outsider looking in, the problem for Portugal is slightly less clear cut in that even when playing at less than 100% Ronaldo is still a top quality player (unlike some England players I could mention) and even last night after miss after miss (including the penalty and the disallowed goal) I still thought he was going to grab the winner!!

I think it's down to the teams. Real Madrid are far better than Portugal which means Ronaldo can be Ronaldo and it doesn't matter as much. Someone else will be able to cover somewhat when he has an off game, Portugal don't have the same depth available and when someone is trying to do everything and failing it's more obvious.

Anyway, as much as I like laughing at Ronaldo he's infinitely preferable to the cockwomble that is Pepe.

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think Portugal has the same problem that England has. When you get a decent player he is built up so much that he becomes undroppable, unsubstitutable - no matter how bad they may be playing. It then gets into really bizarre territory when those players are picked even when injured or not fully match fit.

It's a real problem - and a real managerial weakness. Even Capello, for all his big talk and big reputation, even he went down the same path.

As far as I can see, as an outsider looking in, the problem for Portugal is slightly less clear cut in that even when playing at less than 100% Ronaldo is still a top quality player (unlike some England players I could mention) and even last night after miss after miss (including the penalty and the disallowed goal) I still thought he was going to grab the winner!!

I think it's down to the teams. Real Madrid are far better than Portugal which means Ronaldo can be Ronaldo and it doesn't matter as much. Someone else will be able to cover somewhat when he has an off game, Portugal don't have the same depth available and when someone is trying to do everything and failing it's more obvious.

Anyway, as much as I like laughing at Ronaldo he's infinitely preferable to the cockwomble that is Pepe.

warspite1

Cockwomble? If that is another word for accident-prone, unlikeable, **** then yes, I agree [:)]

It really is complicated, Warspite. The player will not change (he's always been this way), the fans and club owners will not accept him being dropped. On the other hand, a coach banging the table and shouting "I'm the boss here"...

But is life that simple?

Ronaldo, despite his ego, handled the photo scene in a very nice way. Most players would have avoided the fan running onto a pitch just for a selfie. I liked the way he took the time and let the fan take the pic, telling the stewards to take things easy, before the fan was shown off the pitch. The stewards of course were only doing their job.

Mat

I agree with most of all the points brought here. The problem of the Portuguese team is not only Ronaldo and his physical fitness.
We lack a number 9. Until someone comes out, there won't be Ronaldo's in the world that will fix our inefficiency.
A young generation of good players is coming, hopefully a number 9 will come.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

It really is complicated, Warspite. The player will not change (he's always been this way), the fans and club owners will not accept him being dropped. On the other hand, a coach banging the table and shouting "I'm the boss here"...

But is life that simple?

warspite1

No life is not that simple as I said. I think a strong man-manager could deal with the situation, although would need to be sure its at the right time - and then hope the decision does not re-bound in his face.

Simple? Not at all and for many (most?) the man in question is too powerful. As I said, if Capello was unable to do it to Rooney (and Ericksen with Beckham) it shows how difficult it can be when your job is on the line.

Albania. [X(]

And it was a deserved win.

ORIGINAL: Orm

Albania. [X(]

And it was a deserved win.

warspite1

And they so nearly got a point against France.......

Still possible they may qualify as one of the best 3rd placed teams - although I suspect there will be some with 4 points so......

Six changes tonight. Can easily make a case for replacing all six (Sterling and possibly Kane because of form - the others to give them a rest for the next round) but all six together?

Given England's penchant for mucking up and thus getting a worse draw in the knockout stages than would otherwise be the case, that is a big risk Roy.......[:-]

I wonder why England demand the team to make it to the semi finals. Or is it only the press?

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Six changes tonight. Can easily make a case for replacing all six (Sterling and possibly Kane because of form - the others to give them a rest for the next round) but all six together?

Given England's penchant for mucking up and thus getting a worse draw in the knockout stages than would otherwise be the case, that is a big risk Roy.......[:-]

I assume that Roy think he must take risks if he wants to continue with this job. If the team does not make it to the semis then he can begin looking for a new job.

ORIGINAL: Orm

I wonder why England demand the team to make it to the semi finals. Or is it only the press?

warspite1

Not sure what you are reading there Orm - was it the Dyke comment? I saw an article in the paper this morning in response to a totally lame-brain comment from Greg Dyke about reaching the semis or a gallant loss in the quarter's [8|] Makes you wonder really....

Long gone (thankfully) are the days when we'd go into every tournament (that we actually qualified for) thinking we would win it. However I think the (not unrealistic) expectation is that we need to be making progress. But it never happens. Essentially we muck up the group stages, making life harder than it should be, and then lose to the first half decent team we play. I mean seriously, when was the last time England a) actually beat someone (anyone) comfortably in a tournament? or b) beat a better ranked team (or acknowledged to be better) than us?

Every tournament the same - except Brazil where we were even worse than usual.....[:(]

Swedish media have had a field day with that comment about the semis. I assume it was Greg Dyke since you mention him but I do not recall the source.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Every tournament the same - except Brazil where we were even worse than usual.....[:(]

Well, you are always better than Sweden. With a few exceptions. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Every tournament the same - except Brazil where we were even worse than usual.....[:(]

Well, you are always better than Sweden. With a few exceptions. [:)]

warspite1

Actually that is not true. If Sweden had won her World Cup (unlucky for them to come across Brazil) and not come runners-up, Sweden's record in the World Cup would actually be better than England's.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Every tournament the same - except Brazil where we were even worse than usual.....[:(]

Well, you are always better than Sweden. With a few exceptions. [:)]

warspite1

Actually that is not true. If Sweden had won her World Cup (unlucky for them to come across Brazil) and not come runners-up, Sweden's record in the World Cup would actually be better than England's.

It feels true. [:D]

Looking good for Wales.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Six changes tonight. Can easily make a case for replacing all six (Sterling and possibly Kane because of form - the others to give them a rest for the next round) but all six together?

Given England's penchant for mucking up and thus getting a worse draw in the knockout stages than would otherwise be the case, that is a big risk Roy.......[:-]

What was the question for the answer to be "Jordan Henderson"? He has never had a good game for England, at best he's been acceptable and entirely forgetable, tonight is no exception apart from several over hit passes. Bertrand could easily have got himself sent off as well.


Clyne has done well tonight though and Lallana too (although he's probably worn himself out).


Plus ca change. Same old England.

Well quelle surprise...... another tournament, another opponent we should be beating and....... it never gets any better does it?

Why do England footballers not understand that playing the ball forward, quickly, with precision, behind the defence is what causes defences to crumble? We did that a few times in the first half, maybe once in the second... and that's it. Why?

Speaking of why, Why was Vardy taken off at half time and not replaced? Why was the knackered Kane brought on and not Rashford? Why Henderson indeed? Mind you, Wilshire and Rooney were pretty awful too.

On the positives, we can't score but we dominated the game, Eric Dier looks a better player with every game, Clynne was industrious down the right and Sturridge looked good before he tired. I'm now struggling....