Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A)

[PaxMondo]

The Randy C is good even without the radar.

Armor
Good armament
Good speed

It is one of the few NF's that IJ gets that won't contribute to the ridiculous number of B29 aces that will be created.[:D]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The Randy C is good even without the radar.

Armor
Good armament
Good speed

It is one of the few NF's that IJ gets that won't contribute to the ridiculous number of B29 aces that will be created.[:D]

Randy C without radar is just a Randy A, and you can get the A model in use by 1944. Without the radar till 10/45, I don't see the need for the C model - the Nick D can hold the fort as well as any of the other models, and the Frances and Irving NF's get their radar's in reasonable time to make an impact.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The Randy C is good even without the radar.

Armor
Good armament
Good speed

It is one of the few NF's that IJ gets that won't contribute to the ridiculous number of B29 aces that will be created.[:D]

Randy C without radar is just a Randy A, and you can get the A model in use by 1944. Without the radar till 10/45, I don't see the need for the C model - the Nick D can hold the fort as well as any of the other models, and the Frances and Irving NF's get their radar's in reasonable time to make an impact.

Well I get them soon so I can do seem tests. I find no matter what that dedicated NF do better than day fighters. I've tried Nick Ia at night and they'e just not as good as the Nick Id.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The Randy C is good even without the radar.

Armor
Good armament
Good speed

It is one of the few NF's that IJ gets that won't contribute to the ridiculous number of B29 aces that will be created.[:D]

Randy C without radar is just a Randy A, and you can get the A model in use by 1944. Without the radar till 10/45, I don't see the need for the C model - the Nick D can hold the fort as well as any of the other models, and the Frances and Irving NF's get their radar's in reasonable time to make an impact.

Well I get them soon so I can do seem tests. I find no matter what that dedicated NF do better than day fighters. I've tried Nick Ia at night and they'e just not as good as the Nick Id.

Yeah, it's manual gospel that night fighters do better than regular fighters on night missions.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing




Randy C without radar is just a Randy A, and you can get the A model in use by 1944. Without the radar till 10/45, I don't see the need for the C model - the Nick D can hold the fort as well as any of the other models, and the Frances and Irving NF's get their radar's in reasonable time to make an impact.

Well I get them soon so I can do seem tests. I find no matter what that dedicated NF do better than day fighters. I've tried Nick Ia at night and they'e just not as good as the Nick Id.

Yeah, it's manual gospel that night fighters do better than regular fighters on night missions.

Exactly.

This is the best NF IJ gets at any point in time. So, if I was to have a strategy of wanting to improve the IJ NF forces, this is the aircraft to do it.
The problem is, in a stock scenario, so few total air groups can be converted to NF. Thus, I have never used this strategy in a stock scenario.

Meaning, in order to get this AC early enough to really make a difference, you would want to commit 9 or 12 factories to it. Then, maybe you get it mid to late 44 with enough production capacity to actually have air groups full.

Anyway, just some thoughts ...

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: obvert




Well I get them soon so I can do seem tests. I find no matter what that dedicated NF do better than day fighters. I've tried Nick Ia at night and they'e just not as good as the Nick Id.

Yeah, it's manual gospel that night fighters do better than regular fighters on night missions.

Exactly.

This is the best NF IJ gets at any point in time. So, if I was to have a strategy of wanting to improve the IJ NF forces, this is the aircraft to do it.
The problem is, in a stock scenario, so few total air groups can be converted to NF. Thus, I have never used this strategy in a stock scenario.

Meaning, in order to get this AC early enough to really make a difference, you would want to commit 9 or 12 factories to it. Then, maybe you get it mid to late 44 with enough production capacity to actually have air groups full.

Anyway, just some thoughts ...

Not worth it IMO. I'd sooner put up with the slightly inferior Nick D and put the 9-12 factories towards an airframe with more impact like the Ki-94, or the Sam ect.

If the Randy had radar that worked earlier, I'd be all for it, but it's not worth the investment for a slightly superior airframe when you can get the Nick D from 4/44 without ANY investment...

[PaxMondo]

The issue with the Nick is speed. It is considerably slower than the B29. When I tested NF's, the Randy out-performed all other models even without the radar in terms of:
Not creating aces in the allied bomber fleet [;)]
More bomber kills.


The radar did help some, but actually not that much in my tests.

In terms of disrupting the bomb runs, I could not see any difference. Note that the variation in bomb runs is really large and my sample size wasn't, so …


Even so, I don't disagree with your assessment. The RnD cost I have just not been able to justify. Maybe if a lot more groups could convert to NF … maybe. But as it is I cannot justify a huge investment for just a few groups …

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The issue with the Nick is speed. It is considerably slower than the B29. When I tested NF's, the Randy out-performed all other models even without the radar in terms of:
Not creating aces in the allied bomber fleet [;)]
More bomber kills.


The radar did help some, but actually not that much in my tests.

In terms of disrupting the bomb runs, I could not see any difference. Note that the variation in bomb runs is really large and my sample size wasn't, so …


Even so, I don't disagree with your assessment. The RnD cost I have just not been able to justify. Maybe if a lot more groups could convert to NF … maybe. But as it is I cannot justify a huge investment for just a few groups …

I would think that the Nick's speed would actually be an advantage? If it can only make one pass on B-29s then you'd expect only one pass of defensive fire. In turn, that would hopefully keep losses down. That's my logic anyways.

My thinking on night fighters now is to min-max: get the airframe that can make max impact for min investment. The Nick NF is that plane for the IJA in my view.

Given the sparse number of night fighter squadrons, you're compelled to use day fighters as night CAP in the late war. In which case, I'd happily use the Randy A model for that, given that it is a true multi-role fighter. The dedicated NF model I just can't justify.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Given the sparse number of night fighter squadrons, you're compelled to use day fighters as night CAP in the late war. In which case, I'd happily use the Randy A model for that, given that it is a true multi-role fighter. The dedicated NF model I just can't justify.

Agreed.

[Bif1961]

With the airspeed issue it depends on attack angle. If they are tail chaser they will be closing at an extremly slow rate and be subject to defensive fire for a long time. If closing from the nose the combined speed will make them actually too fast to be effectively engaged. The advantaged to a faster NF is they, with climb rate, can get into attack position quicker where the slower NF may not be able to at all.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

With the airspeed issue it depends on attack angle. If they are tail chaser they will be closing at an extremly slow rate and be subject to defensive fire for a long time. If closing from the nose the combined speed will make them actually too fast to be effectively engaged. The advantaged to a faster NF is they, with climb rate, can get into attack position quicker where the slower NF may not be able to at all.

They're slower than the B-29, which is normally restricts them to a single firing pass. This is acceptable to me, as it should cause disruption and damage without causing excessive losses to defensive fire. I hope...

[mind_messing]

March 25th to April 9th, 1942

North Pacific

Still quiet here. I've one squadron of 8 Mavis floatplanes on Adak, and another squadron of 12 Mavis planes on Shimushiri-jima (with a AV disbanded in port until engineers get this base developed).

I've also got the first fully trained squadron of ASW/NavS Jakes up here as well.

More is planned for here, mostly from Korea, but it will take some time yet to arrive.

Central Pacific

First round of Naval Guard units are deployed here, which should see off any pesky invasions from sub commandos or the likes. I want to avoid any substantial commitment of ground units to the islands of the Marshalls and Gilberts, as I'm not really convinced that anything more than token garrisons makes a difference in the small atoll combats. That's just a general rule, as there are obviously exceptions.

Air power has been more or less stripped from this theatre. Besides 12 Mavis floatplanes flying from Maloelap, everything is on training mode. It should be another month or two before this area is swarming with floatplane squadrons. I reckon I need about five to six floatplane squadrons to provide blanket coverage from Truk to Mili. This leaves the Gilberts uncovered, but that's acceptable to me - the Gilberts are just a tripwire. With the wind-down of the DEI campaign close, I'll start shifting seaplane tenders to this AO in order to help bolster the ground-based aviation support.

South-West Pacific

Port Moresby falls to two IJA regiments.

The stalemate at Suva continues. IJN fighters jump PBY's trying to fly in Marines. There's evidence of a major Allied build-up in Pago Pago and at New Zealand, and there's serious plans underway for a drive-by strike by the KB to attempt to catch Allied planes and ships close to the front. The current plan is for the KB to strike naval and air targets at Pago Pago, then move to Auckland before returning home. However, this may be excessive in fuel consumption, so a more limited raid is being considered. A campaign of strategic bombing against exposed industry in North-Eastern Australia might generate better returns.

The balance of power on Fiji is firmly in the hands of the Japanese - 1040 IJ AV to 367 Allied AV. Nells flying from Nadi make it unsafe for Allied task forces, and Allied cruiser forces on bombardment missions have failed to close the base.

My current focus for the moment is to back-fill the bases west of Fiji so as to support operations at the frontline. To that end, I want to establish a small airbases (size 4) at Luganville and Ndeni to give some depth to the IJ position here.

DEI

Java is completely occupied by Japanese forces, along with Palembang. Only a few small bases remain in Allied hands in the DEI.

After Batavia fell with the industry almost completely intact, it was misfortunate that Soerabaja was occupied with almost all the industry destroyed. Work is underway to repair the oil and heavy industry, but the refineries will not be repaired. This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.

Palembang, after a couple weeks of stalemate, finally falls to Japanese troops. Damage is minimal - ten points each to the refineries and oil centres. I am overjoyed. Engineers and AA are already en-route to Palembang, and they'll join units already at work improving Bengkalis and Medan. As Palembang generates some 1.1k supply per day, I'm thinking of relocating a large section of my air training progamme to Sumatra in order to help build supply stockpiles in Japan. Anyone got thoughts on this?

Now that Sumatra is Japanese, I'm shifting large numbers of units over to the Burma front.

Burma

This theatre is about to heat up over the next few months.

The current IJA spearhead is bogged down at Pegu by some 17 Allied units, mostly Chinese. The 122k Allied troops are keeping some 1.1k IJA AV stuck, for the present. Thankfully, Pegu is open terrain, and my decision to invest heavily in expanding airbases in Thailand is paying off. Some 350 IJ aircraft have been operating with impunity over Burma for the past few weeks putting the hurt on the defenders of Pegu. Recon shows no Allied aircraft in Southern Burma, so long may it continue. I've been reluctant to bomb Rangoon airbase for some time due to wanting to avoid losses to flak, so forts might be higher than I'd like. To compensate for that, I intend to rush north after Pegu is captured and attempt to close the mountain pass to China. I expect the horse has already bolted: there will be significant Chinese troops already safely on the way to India at this point, but that's a problem for later in the game.

China

The situation in China is excellent! A deliberate attack on Chungking has knocked forts down to level 5. However, IJ troops invested in Chungking have withdrawn northwards to combine with additional units moving from Sian. Some 24 Chinese units, numbering around 181k men, have been fleeing west since Sian fell earlier in the war. The combined IJA forces will defeat these units once more before sweeping the Chinese off the Chungking plains.



Chinese strongholds in green, planned IJA moves in Red.

Hopefully, I'm on track to beat my record of Chungking falling into Japanese hands by October. The sooner the better, all the troops in China are desperately needed in Burma!

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.
...
As Palembang generates some 1.1k supply per day, I'm thinking of relocating a large section of my air training progamme to Sumatra in order to help build supply stockpiles in Japan. Anyone got thoughts on this?
...
The current IJA spearhead is bogged down at Pegu by some 17 Allied units, mostly Chinese. The 122k Allied troops are keeping some 1.1k IJA AV stuck, for the present. Thankfully, Pegu is open terrain, and my decision to invest heavily in expanding airbases in Thailand is paying off

From Batavia to Singers maybe? Or can be shipped by the occasional Palembang route convoy. Repairing some of the refineries might actually be a good idea to generate fuel for the theatre on the spot.
...
Training is best done on 8+ airfields to not tie up a lot of air support for your resized groups. And it does not eat that much supply, 90-size unit with 1/3 supply per day per plane eats 900 supply a month. Surely you can manage that kind of supply traffic w/o relocating trainees to the relatively high-risk area. CAP training is another matter, can act as additional air cover
...
Naval bombardments from Moulmein? Clear terrain makes CA bombardments deadly without high forts

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.
...
As Palembang generates some 1.1k supply per day, I'm thinking of relocating a large section of my air training progamme to Sumatra in order to help build supply stockpiles in Japan. Anyone got thoughts on this?
...
The current IJA spearhead is bogged down at Pegu by some 17 Allied units, mostly Chinese. The 122k Allied troops are keeping some 1.1k IJA AV stuck, for the present. Thankfully, Pegu is open terrain, and my decision to invest heavily in expanding airbases in Thailand is paying off

From Batavia to Singers maybe? Or can be shipped by the occasional Palembang route convoy. Repairing some of the refineries might actually be a good idea to generate fuel for the theatre on the spot.
...
Training is best done on 8+ airfields to not tie up a lot of air support for your resized groups. And it does not eat that much supply, 90-size unit with 1/3 supply per day per plane eats 900 supply a month. Surely you can manage that kind of supply traffic w/o relocating trainees to the relatively high-risk area. CAP training is another matter, can act as additional air cover
...
Naval bombardments from Moulmein? Clear terrain makes CA bombardments deadly without high forts

I could ship to Singers, but I think it may start to overload the port. I'd much rather ship direct from Java where I know there's not much overload. Maybe Formosa, seeing as there's already oil on Formosa?

Once Sumatra is fully cleared, I expect it to be a backwater until much later in the war. Given how easy it is to shuffle pilots around I don't really see the downside. I intend for Southern Sumatra in general and Palembang in particular to be a major air hub, so moving some squadrons there to make it a training centre fits in nicely.

I've already got some CA/CL on shuttle bombardment runs from Singers, but more will be on the way. When I get the turn back I'm doing a major re-org of the IJN so there will be more coming on this.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I've already got some CA/CL on shuttle bombardment runs from Singers, but more will be on the way. When I get the turn back I'm doing a major re-org of the IJN so there will be more coming on this.

Singers is too far for the shuttles to really rattle Loca's nerves. Good old daily bombardment reloading from Moulmein AKEs is much better. As long as you can effectively defend Moulmein from the air that is

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I've already got some CA/CL on shuttle bombardment runs from Singers, but more will be on the way. When I get the turn back I'm doing a major re-org of the IJN so there will be more coming on this.

Singers is too far for the shuttles to really rattle Loca's nerves. Good old daily bombardment reloading from Moulmein AKEs is much better. As long as you can effectively defend Moulmein from the air that is

I like that. I have an AKE at Medan at present, I'll shift it up.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

After Batavia fell with the industry almost completely intact, it was misfortunate that Soerabaja was occupied with almost all the industry destroyed. Work is underway to repair the oil and heavy industry, but the refineries will not be repaired. This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.

Why not ship to Honshu? I don't understand. Don't you ship fuel to Honshu? What's the difference? There are excess refineries there to handle it right?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

After Batavia fell with the industry almost completely intact, it was misfortunate that Soerabaja was occupied with almost all the industry destroyed. Work is underway to repair the oil and heavy industry, but the refineries will not be repaired. This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.

Why not ship to Honshu? I don't understand. Don't you ship fuel to Honshu? What's the difference? There are excess refineries there to handle it right?

Sure, my thinking behind Luzon/Formosa is that they're just drop-off points until later in the war. They get excess oil out faster than the long-haul to Japan, and let me shuttle it out later in the war. My thinking behind China is that given how oil doesn't suffer from spoilage in movement, I can dump it in China and have it migrate to Korea.

I've just hauled it to Japan in the past, just curious if there's a "better" way.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

After Batavia fell with the industry almost completely intact, it was misfortunate that Soerabaja was occupied with almost all the industry destroyed. Work is underway to repair the oil and heavy industry, but the refineries will not be repaired. This will leave a heavy oil surplus on Java, which I'm not sure what to do about. I may ship it to China and hope it moves to Manchuria, or I may ship it to Luzon and worry about extracting it later in the war. I'm unsure, so advice would be welcome.

Why not ship to Honshu? I don't understand. Don't you ship fuel to Honshu? What's the difference? There are excess refineries there to handle it right?

Sure, my thinking behind Luzon/Formosa is that they're just drop-off points until later in the war. They get excess oil out faster than the long-haul to Japan, and let me shuttle it out later in the war. My thinking behind China is that given how oil doesn't suffer from spoilage in movement, I can dump it in China and have it migrate to Korea.

I've just hauled it to Japan in the past, just curious if there's a "better" way.

Sure. If you start pulling oil from Fusan now, and keep a ship there pulling in perpetuity, it will eventually come. It may take a long while, but it will come. The key is to build the port and keep pulling, plus not to pull it out from the other end or along the way anywhere (like Shanghai).

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: obvert
Sure. If you start pulling oil from Fusan now, and keep a ship there pulling in perpetuity, it will eventually come. It may take a long while, but it will come. The key is to build the port and keep pulling, plus not to pull it out from the other end or along the way anywhere (like Shanghai).

I did this and that in my several AI games and settled for Shanghai as the Asian oil/fuel hub. Pulling there is much easier compared to Fusan, port is larger, and the route is short over shallow water and can be covered with ASW many times over.

Still pull resources at Fusan though