Page 7 of 9
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:04 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: sillyflower
ORIGINAL: glvaca
AIR
His base bombing offensive is now in full swing. I lose more than 100 fighters in one turn,
I hope BrianG does not read this AAR. It would do great damage to his self-esteem [;)]
[:D]
It's because of reading your AAR I thought airbase bombing was suicide [;)]
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:06 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
ORIGINAL: glvaca
What makes it even more annoying is that the drop was intercepted an NO unit is actually in the hex. Perhaps that should be looked at.
In the destroyed units screen at the beginning of the turn was there a lost airborne unit? My guess is with those kind of losses of transport aircraft the whole unit must have been destroyed in mid-air? If so the missing unit is not a bad thing but a good thing. The question remains though should they have been able to flip a hex control doing that?
ORIGINAL: glvaca
For the first time I see a strange message in the event log.
Apparently 50K German population is missing? [&:]
As the event log says Axis could that be from the Hungarian marauders?
RE flipped hex: exactly.
RE 50K: very good idea, could well be that the marauders left a mark and lived of the those poor 50K Hungarian peasants!
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:21 pm
by glvaca
TURN9 NORTH
The Neva is crossed by a massive assault, armour may look good in combat strength but is very fragile. I cross with 2 top infantry divisions and a motorized division. The concentration of forces at Leningrad leaves me shorthanded in infantry elsewhere but I have been sending reinforcements
to the area mostly from AGS and from new arrivals.
I close some gaps and isolate unit s and start to show interest in the right hook. He counters with only a few units.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:21 pm
by Telemecus
ORIGINAL: glvaca
the marauders left a mark and lived of the those poor 50K Hungarian peasants!
Soylent Green Goulash? [:D]
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:22 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
ORIGINAL: glvaca
the marauders left a mark and lived of the those poor 50K Hungarian peasants!
Soylent Green Goulash? [:D]
A conneseur? [:D]
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:27 pm
by EwaldvonKleist
His base bombing offensive is now in full swing. I lose more than 100 fighters in one turn,
You need to stop this NOW, or you will be without airforce during the last turns before mud. The snowball must be stopped before it gets too big.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:30 pm
by glvaca
TURN9 CENTRE
Looking at the pics now writing the AAR I see I was an idiot not taking into account the 1Hex move rule and, off course, another para drop.
To my huge satisfaction, the para unit retreats in the pocket [8D]
From now on, all para units have a bulls eye on their front, back and centre [:D]
Still, once more a turn lost in pushing East. It is clearly visible that the Mud turn has done wonders to his defence for Moscow.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:33 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
His base bombing offensive is now in full swing. I lose more than 100 fighters in one turn,
You need to stop this NOW, or you will be without airforce during the last turns before mud. The snowball must be stopped before it gets too big.
I know and I can tell I have. I transfer several air groups from the South and experiment with flak in aircorps and air armies. However, see questions on page 4.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:38 pm
by Telemecus
ORIGINAL: glvaca
I transfer several air groups from the South and experiment with flak in aircorps and air armies. However, see questions on page 4.
Personally I do not think flak makes too big a difference. It may stop enemy airforces pressing home their attacks (as opposed to destroying the enemy) but is never the same as a good fighter defence.
Have you thought about range? Almost all Soviet fighters are shorter range than yours - so it is possible to keep your bases in range of the front but out of Soviet fighter range? If the base bombing is escorted this is something to consider.
I guess we will have to wait for future turns AAR first though.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:44 pm
by glvaca
TURN9 CENTRE2
In the meantime 4th Army has been busy, crossing several major rivers, capturing Gomel with its industry and isolating some units.
My guess is he's trying a checker board defence to slow me down, but I don't mind. I have time and airborne brigades are high on my priority list.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:50 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
ORIGINAL: glvaca
I transfer several air groups from the South and experiment with flak in aircorps and air armies. However, see questions on page 4.
Personally I do not think flak makes too big a difference. It may stop enemy airforces pressing home their attacks (as opposed to destroying the enemy) but is never the same as a good fighter defence.
Have you thought about range? Almost all Soviet fighters are shorter range than yours - so it is possible to keep your bases in range of the front but out of Soviet fighter range? If the base bombing is escorted this is something to consider.
I guess we will have to wait for future turns AAR first though.
I have to be honest and admit I haven't paid as much attention to the air war as I should. A lot has changed and I have to catch up.
I do think flak makes a difference but I will need to play more with ranges and putting units on night missions to avoid burning them before his turn. However, at T15 we have about parity in numbers and I'm planning a major reorganization during mud.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:54 pm
by EwaldvonKleist
From my liited exp. the best fighter for airfield bombign is the Mig 3 due to speed and good range. If you threaten Moscow, he has to evacuate and will be short of them. In this case you only need to move your bases a few hexagons back and his bombers are unprotected. Cross cover of the air armies is also a good way to make airfield bombing too costly. Stacking all fighters of an air army on one base should also help.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:25 pm
by glvaca
TURN9 SOUTH
The South becomes a mix between a clean-up, reorganization and a badly executed lunch towards Kharkov. The T34 factory has long since gone.
2 Corps are combined. 2ndPzg Corps to get a HQ buildup on T10 to go back North and the 1stPzG Corps to get a refit turn, and a HQ build-up on T10 for a dash to Stalino.
In the meantime the infantry advances.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:28 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
From my liited exp. the best fighter for airfield bombign is the Mig 3 due to speed and good range. If you threaten Moscow, he has to evacuate and will be short of them. In this case you only need to move your bases a few hexagons back and his bombers are unprotected. Cross cover of the air armies is also a good way to make airfield bombing too costly. Stacking all fighters of an air army on one base should also help.
The Mig3 is indeed the best early war fighter the Sovs have. What it also has is good high altitude performance. I don't know if it is used by the engine though. In any case, nothing the Sovs have can beat an bf109 F4 in expert hands. It's probably due to my mishandling of my airforce, but I find the Sovs a bit to good in the air.
There's a lot more to come [;)]
Actually, if you want to dive a bit deeper into the historical air battles in the East, try the series by Christer Bergström.
In short: the Russian pilots were so inexperienced they where sent to the front after only 4-5 hours flying time. Compare this to Navy Seals fighting conscripts who haven't fired a shot before being put to the front. Guess who wins [:D]
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:35 pm
by glvaca
OOB
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:36 pm
by glvaca
AIR
A bit better but not optimal.
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:36 pm
by glvaca
GROUND
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:39 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
ORIGINAL: glvaca
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
His base bombing offensive is now in full swing. I lose more than 100 fighters in one turn,
You need to stop this NOW, or you will be without airforce during the last turns before mud. The snowball must be stopped before it gets too big.
I know and I can tell I have. I transfer several air groups from the South and experiment with flak in aircorps and air armies. However, see questions on page 4.
Flak makes a difference.
But one question and excuse me if you answered before. Are you flying interdiction mission?
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:43 pm
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: glvaca
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
You need to stop this NOW, or you will be without airforce during the last turns before mud. The snowball must be stopped before it gets too big.
I know and I can tell I have. I transfer several air groups from the South and experiment with flak in aircorps and air armies. However, see questions on page 4.
Flak makes a difference.
But one question and excuse me if you answered before. Are you flying interdiction mission?
I did at the start but fairly quickly concluded it's the best way to wreck the German airforce for little return.
what I'm having trouble with is getting flak in Aricorps and air armies to help out when bombed. Sometimes they do help, sometimes they do nothing even when stacked with the airbases.
Do they have to be attached to the Aircorps/Army in order for them to help out?
RE: Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:49 pm
by EwaldvonKleist
ORIGINAL:The Mig3 is indeed the best early war fighter the Sovs have. What it also has is good high altitude performance. I don't know if it is used by the engine though. In any case, nothing the Sovs have can beat an bf109 F4 in expert hands. It's probably due to my mishandling of my airforce, but I find the Sovs a bit to good in the air.
There's a lot more to come [;)]
Actually, if you want to dive a bit deeper into the historical air battles in the East, try the series by Christer Bergström.
In short: the Russian pilots were so inexperienced they where sent to the front after only 4-5 hours flying time. Compare this to Navy Seals fighting conscripts who haven't fired a shot before being put to the front. Guess who wins [:D]
I have far less eastern front knowledge than many here. But the air war follows the same pattern as the ground war: Axis players aren't as stupid as Hitler and Soviet players not as stupid as Stalin. The only important thing is that there is no strategy that can't be countered. 5 hours pilots are 30 morale 30 exp guys in WitE. Almost everyone will train them up first, so the results are not as bad as historical.
A test game Dinglir vs. Hardluck would be good to check the balance of the air war
