Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I'd like to give a little more input of why I don't mind the ai having advantages I don't have or as some call them "cheats". When you play a human individual who is of lesser experience than you are you can "teach" them to improve their game. This is something the player cannot do with a computer ai other than at least "options" to give it some distinct advantages. Most often it is in numbers of units, but, it is rarely Ever improved gameplay (slitherine uses a feature where the ai doesn't actually do anything for a certain amount of turns per difficulty level, I don't really consider this improved gameplay) whereas another human player usually can and will improve. Also since the majority of computer games sold are for the "solo" play (at least by all the polls I've seen), there definitely needs to be things that can at least improve the "challenge" of the game even for those that play hardcore highest difficulty from the start.

I've just never understood this philosophy of not adding "options" to increase difficulty beyond the norm. Why is it so hard to have something in the options that the player can adjust to make any game extremely challenging to them on an individual basis? Why is it so hard to add an option to increase the offense/defense stats of the ai units in % increments?? I've always thought a slider from 10% to 100% increase to offense/defense (one for each) stats would be perfect for computer wargames. Die roll modifier options as well. Maybe I'm thinking too much in board wargame play, but, it certainly was easy to do when giving a lesser experienced player some advantages when I played them.

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'd like to give a little more input of why I don't mind the ai having advantages I don't have or as some call them "cheats". When you play a human individual who is of lesser experience than you are you can "teach" them to improve their game. This is something the player cannot do with a computer ai other than at least "options" to give it some distinct advantages. Most often it is in numbers of units, but, it is rarely Ever improved gameplay (slitherine uses a feature where the ai doesn't actually do anything for a certain amount of turns per difficulty level, I don't really consider this improved gameplay) whereas another human player usually can and will improve. Also since the majority of computer games sold are for the "solo" play (at least by all the polls I've seen), there definitely needs to be things that can at least improve the "challenge" of the game even for those that play hardcore highest difficulty from the start.

I've just never understood this philosophy of not adding "options" to increase difficulty beyond the norm. Why is it so hard to have something in the options that the player can adjust to make any game extremely challenging to them on an individual basis? Why is it so hard to add an option to increase the offense/defense stats of the ai units in % increments?? I've always thought a slider from 10% to 100% increase to offense/defense (one for each) stats would be perfect for computer wargames. Die roll modifier options as well. Maybe I'm thinking too much in board wargame play, but, it certainly was easy to do when giving a lesser experienced player some advantages when I played them.

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  [* accomplishing it on a budget (both time and money)]

ORIGINAL: Lothos

Shannon I sent you a PM and email please drop me a line via IM or email about AI stuff.

ORIGINAL: DerekP

If people seriously think the AI can be challenging for the average / superior player they will be kidding themselves.

The biggest problem in all startegy games is that the players "cheat". Not by breaking the rules (although some will do that[&:]) but by exploiting the rules. If an AI is programmed to execute a multiple choice type attack (if conquer France then choose Spain, Britain or Balkans depending on certain factors) then the players will know this and plan accordingly or even dupe the AI into choosing a favourable course of action for the player by artificially strengthening or weakening fronts.

Similarly any knowledge of the AI's rules (if Britain does this then Germany will probably do that) will lead to exploits

You can randomise the AI's actions to a degree but this leads into problems with sub-optimum (in the long run) strategies being chosen even if they shock the player in the short term.

The best we can hope for is an adequate AI for learners and a solid MP interface (and yes, Lothos is the best around [&o]and if he can help manage that for WiF then he will have excelled himself).

ORIGINAL: hakon
If Shannon is confident enough to not plan for AI advantages from the start, I dont mind, unless it becomes an Ego thing that prevents him from putting such features in when/if it is discoverd that the AI will not provide a real challenge to a competent human wif player.

ORIGINAL: mlees

Not everyone is an elite player.

I am a noob WiF player. By that, I mean I never played a human opponent. Therefore, any AI will be a challenge for me for some time. And if I decide to get my feet wet by playing a human, I will get spanked, and run back to playing the AI for emotional support.

Those customers who buy this computer game (and who do not own the boardgame) will need some kind of AI to play against while learning the mechanics of the game.

If they want to find opponents, or discuss strategy and become better players, then they can be directed (by info that is in the "about" section of MWiF) to these forums.

The number of possibilites are so much closer to infinity than a game of chess.

ORIGINAL: mlees

Not everyone is an elite player.

I am a noob WiF player. By that, I mean I never played a human opponent. Therefore, any AI will be a challenge for me for some time. And if I decide to get my feet wet by playing a human, I will get spanked, and run back to playing the AI for emotional support.

Those customers who buy this computer game (and who do not own the boardgame) will need some kind of AI to play against while learning the mechanics of the game.

If they want to find opponents, or discuss strategy and become better players, then they can be directed (by info that is in the "about" section of MWiF) to these forums.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The number of possibilites are so much closer to infinity than a game of chess.

Mathematicians define two kinds of infinity: countable and uncountable. I believe both of these would be considered finite though.

ORIGINAL: idwilson66

I expect this is too late, but if you are still interested in having someone with a strong background in AI then let me know.

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