Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Where, at this moment in time, is the objective basis for declaring FUDD has not worked out.

One of the very common mistakes made by players is treating operations on a daily basis. Just because this is a turn based game, which in this match has 1 day per turn, does not mean that battles, let alone entire operations, are over in just a single day. Nor is it realistic to expect no hiccups will be encountered within a multi day battle, let alone a multi week operation.

Perspective. Strong players have it. Weak players do not.

Alfred

Thanks, friend.

This is how I would assess things, right now, before I get the turn back.

Singers--huge Allied success story. NINE IDs plus about 4-5 more equivalents, plus five months nearly to take an objective which should have fallen at worst in January. I won't go back and tote up Japanese casualties, but they have to be 50,000 at least. The stack there now has taken over 20,000 in the past 72 game hours. I did not build the air field and the shipyard has 7-8 points of damage as I recall. Bombing there has put Japanese air losses far ahead of Allied. The whole Java/Sumatra/DEI timetable has been disrupted. I still hold Rabaul (it's empty, but still), Pt. Moresby, Timor, Darwin. Soerbaja is strongly held. So is Batavia. Palembang will be a bar fight which should leave the oil fields on fire. Singers bought all that. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

FUDD--will fail in the landings most likely. LCU losses will be more than forecast. But I should end up with Prome, Bassein, Ramree, and perhaps Toungoo. Pt. Blair will put up a fight. I need time to get the marchers into Prome and Bassein. But if I can Burma should stalemate for much of 1942. The monsoon is coming. And I still have all the oil there. Lashio is strong and the back-door from Tsuyung is still pinned by an in-supply Big Stack. I lack air assets in a big way, my armor got hurt badly, and I probably won't get Rangoon this round. But FUDD has not been a disaster, despite today. Could get worse, but right now I''ll still take it over sitting in place on the Mandalay group line.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The only thing that frightens me are those white parrots with yellow stuff on the head! Don´t know the name for em? Oh, and spiders! Hate those! [:)]

Parrots you say? Maybe Nemo can help you with that phobia. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

"Ungulate" is a much under used word btw

Maybe a better day tomorrow?

Absolutley! I have only to send a Bravo Zulu flag hoist to Mike, then it's on to the next turn!

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The only thing that frightens me are those white parrots with yellow stuff on the head! Don´t know the name for em? Oh, and spiders! Hate those! [:)]

Sulfur crested Cockatoos. From OZ. They fly around all over in some spots there and make a lot of noise!

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The only thing that frightens me are those white parrots with yellow stuff on the head! Don´t know the name for em? Oh, and spiders! Hate those! [:)]

Sulfur crested Cockatoos. From OZ. They fly around all over in some spots there and make a lot of noise!

They moved to Sweden?! [:)]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The only thing that frightens me are those white parrots with yellow stuff on the head! Don´t know the name for em? Oh, and spiders! Hate those! [:)]

Sulfur crested Cockatoos. From OZ. They fly around all over in some spots there and make a lot of noise!

They moved to Sweden?! [:)]

Yes. In small cages. And probably with some spiders along for the ride. [;)]

ORIGINAL: obvert
Sulfur crested Cockatoos. From OZ. They fly around all over in some spots there and make a lot of noise!

Yes those are the ones! I googled it and saw an image. Immediately broke into a sweat when I saw the picture! [X(] Took me 28 years to find out why I was scared to death of them until my mother told me by coincidence she had one of those as a pet when I was a toddler. She had to get rid of it as it was jelous and attacked me all the time. Even attacked my dad at times.

Crazy how something that happened when you were too young to remember anything can etch somewhere in the sub conscious.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert




Sulfur crested Cockatoos. From OZ. They fly around all over in some spots there and make a lot of noise!

They moved to Sweden?! [:)]

Yes. In small cages. And probably with some spiders along for the ride. [;)]

I was picturing roving gangs of them infesting Swedish parks, chewing on old toothpicks, wearing leather jackets, and dragging greasy combs through their plumes.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

"Ungulate" is a much under used word btw

Maybe a better day tomorrow?

I remember that one from my Catholic Sunday School - one of the sacraments: Extreme Ungulation! [;)]
Appropriate to give last rites to Mr. Fudd and move on without ruminating on it too much.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Encircled

"Ungulate" is a much under used word btw

Maybe a better day tomorrow?

I remember that one from my Catholic Sunday School - one of the sacraments: Extreme Ungulation! [;)]
Appropriate to give last rites to Mr. Fudd and move on without ruminating on it too much.

He's not dead yet! He's getting better!

Moose bites can be pretti nasti! A moose once bit my sister!

Bull I think you did a dang fine job at Singers. Op Fudd, you might not get the immediate victory you want.  But I bet in the long run it will be a small victory for you. He will have to spread his troops out to protect his bases.  I think we have a new move amphib landing of Rangoon in 42 It will always be called Operation Bull.

I think some of the perspective that Alfred was mentioning (forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn) is that these operations aren't binary decisions - there is a large amount of difference between a complete success and a flat failure in a complex operation like FUDD. Given the woeful state of the Allied forces in April, 1942 for offensive operations, you were able to pull off a dangerous riposte in a vulnerable area and forced him to react to you or suffer serious losses in key territory. Even though he succeeded in preventing a total success, he will remember that he cannot assume you are defensive in a given theater, and that will generate plenty of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) as the game proceeds. This is an asset not to be underestimated. Fighting forward risks assets that other players husband; it can also force the Japanese player to expend resources that he dearly wishes he would have back in 1943-1945.

With Singapore just now falling and Bataan still active, IIRC, he is going to lose the amphibious bonus with significant areas of the DEI still under Allied control and unable to make the early-war snap landings to rectify the situation. To continue Canoerebel's baseball analogy, you finally gave up a couple of runs, but your bullpen and bench are both much deeper than his. His only shot at winning is to jump on you early and demoralize you; at this point, he's the one with morale problems and, in all likelihood, an economy headed for major trouble sooner rather than later.

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Bull I think you did a dang fine job at Singers. Op Fudd, you might not get the immediate victory you want.  But I bet in the long run it will be a small victory for you. He will have to spread his troops out to protect his bases.  I think we have a new move amphib landing of Rangoon in 42 It will always be called Operation Bull.

Blush.

Maybe Operation BULL NEUTER?[:)]

ORIGINAL: CowboyRonin

I think some of the perspective that Alfred was mentioning (forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn) is that these operations aren't binary decisions - there is a large amount of difference between a complete success and a flat failure in a complex operation like FUDD. Given the woeful state of the Allied forces in April, 1942 for offensive operations, you were able to pull off a dangerous riposte in a vulnerable area and forced him to react to you or suffer serious losses in key territory. Even though he succeeded in preventing a total success, he will remember that he cannot assume you are defensive in a given theater, and that will generate plenty of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) as the game proceeds. This is an asset not to be underestimated. Fighting forward risks assets that other players husband; it can also force the Japanese player to expend resources that he dearly wishes he would have back in 1943-1945.

With Singapore just now falling and Bataan still active, IIRC, he is going to lose the amphibious bonus with significant areas of the DEI still under Allied control and unable to make the early-war snap landings to rectify the situation. To continue Canoerebel's baseball analogy, you finally gave up a couple of runs, but your bullpen and bench are both much deeper than his. His only shot at winning is to jump on you early and demoralize you; at this point, he's the one with morale problems and, in all likelihood, an economy headed for major trouble sooner rather than later.

Well, thanks here too. FWIW, the amphib bonus already expired.

I agree that less than total success does not equal failure. But I've ben trying to guard against going back and re-writing history. I thought FUDD would work. I had no idea he could get these masses of land forces there so quickly, and I did not expect him to run the Strait to get the naval force into the theater he did. Without those cruisers and the losses they caused this would be a lot more satisfying position. Lesson learned for next time. I know how to block choke points; I just needed to do it, or to believe I needed to do it, which is different.

If I can end up with him holding Rangoon and south and not much else, even if he has a big stack there, I'm happy enough with the clock running and the monsoon coming. If he has to hold that stack at Rangoon, or strike out again to take land he used to have up-country, that stack isn't going to Sumatra or Java. If it does I'll be waiting at Prome or Toungoo or Mandalay for it to leave.

ORIGINAL: CowboyRonin

I think some of the perspective that Alfred was mentioning (forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn) is that these operations aren't binary decisions - there is a large amount of difference between a complete success and a flat failure in a complex operation like FUDD. Given the woeful state of the Allied forces in April, 1942 for offensive operations, you were able to pull off a dangerous riposte in a vulnerable area and forced him to react to you or suffer serious losses in key territory. Even though he succeeded in preventing a total success, he will remember that he cannot assume you are defensive in a given theater, and that will generate plenty of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) as the game proceeds. This is an asset not to be underestimated. Fighting forward risks assets that other players husband; it can also force the Japanese player to expend resources that he dearly wishes he would have back in 1943-1945.

With Singapore just now falling and Bataan still active, IIRC, he is going to lose the amphibious bonus with significant areas of the DEI still under Allied control and unable to make the early-war snap landings to rectify the situation. To continue Canoerebel's baseball analogy, you finally gave up a couple of runs, but your bullpen and bench are both much deeper than his. His only shot at winning is to jump on you early and demoralize you; at this point, he's the one with morale problems and, in all likelihood, an economy headed for major trouble sooner rather than later.

Precisely, although Singapore has not fallen yet.

Back on page 35 at post #1031, Operation FUDD was publicly disclosed. The landings at Rangoon was only one element of the overall plan. Furthermore post #1036 already envisaged that the landings might fail but that would make the central objective (listed for ease of reference) easier to accomplish. Since then Bullwinkle has on numerous occasions outlined what the objectives are, what the benefits of a successful FUDD are, and none of them rely on the immediate capture of Rangoon by the initial landing forces.

I am quite confident in stating that the predecessor to Operation FUDD would have failed comprehensively if the enemy forces now disclosed to be at Rangoon, had been available (which they were) to confront head on the slow moving Allied overland forces. The only way to counter the enemy's speed of redeployment made available by interior LOC using railways, was by use of naval movement rates.

Had Operation FUDD been envisaged from the beginning rather than the earlier planned operation, there would have been additional time to get the logistics and assets right. As it is Bullwinkle has achieved an impressive strike. If this had all been orchestrated by Nemo, not one of you would have dared to suggest that FUDD had already failed. There is more than one bold player who adopts a long term strategic approach on the forum.

Big picture. It goes hand in hand with perspective.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Precisely, although Singapore has not fallen yet.

Post #1188 includes Singapore's fall. The coincidental combination of this, on the same turn as the naval reverses with FUDD, probably contributed to both seeming worse than they were in the larger scheme of things.

ORIGINAL: CowboyRonin

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Precisely, although Singapore has not fallen yet.

Post #1188 includes Singapore's fall. The coincidental combination of this, on the same turn as the naval reverses with FUDD, probably contributed to both seeming worse than they were in the larger scheme of things.

A day in between might have been nicer, but mom always said to pull the bandage off all at once.

Here's the VP trend line at the beginning of the next turn. Mike, in his email, thanked me for my congrats message, but said he is still not at all happy with how Singers played out, and that the cruiser insertion, which was a smashing success, was a real roll of the dice for him. He was not sure it would work. And from my perspective he still has to get them back to Singers to repair through the gauntlet in the Strait.

"It's only a flesh wound."

ORIGINAL: witpqs

"It's only a flesh wound."

Thanks. [:)]

I'm looking at the next turn, wondering where to start. So much to do versus recent turns.

(And aren't they all technically flesh wounds? [:)])

(Or as the Duke also said, "Hey, give me a smoke. I've got two lungs.")

One of my favorite movies of all time! [:D]