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ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Please see below the first of the Italian cruiser write-ups.

[5010 Colleoni - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 36.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 6 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 6,844 tons
.B Thickest armour: 1-inch (belt)

The Colleoni :

Warspite1

Having posted the final draft - I see that she was part of the escort for the convoy operation that led to Punto Stilo [:@].
Revised write-up attached.

[5010 Colleoni - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 95,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 36.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 6-inch (152mm), 6 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 6,844 tons
.B Thickest armour: 1-inch (belt)
.P The first light cruisers built for the Regia Marina (RM) after the First
World War was the Condottieri type. Within this type were six classes or sub
groups. The four-ship Giussano-class made up the first group.
.P These ships were built for the RM between 1928 and 1932. They were not a very
successful design, having been built with speed in mind; and this came at a cost
in armour protection. The necessity for speed being that the class were designed
as destroyer killers.
.P The ships were known for their fragile structural quality and their poor sea-
worthiness. Their lack of armour protection, and specifically the lack of
underwater protection, was to cost the class dearly, as all four ships were
ultimately sunk by torpedo.
.P Bartolomeo Colleoni, to give the ship her full name, was named after an
Italian military hero from the 15th Century. She was completed in February 1932
but was to have a very short war.
.P Her initial role following the Italian declaration of war in June 1940, was as
part of the 2nd Cruiser Squadron, 2nd Cruiser Division with whom she provided
protection for minelaying operations. She also provided the close escort for the
first large scale convoy to North Africa on the 6th July (see Giuilo Cesare and
Transport Counter 5035).
.P Her first and last major action came at the Battle of Cape Spada just over a
month into Italy`s war. Her sister ship within the 2nd Cruiser Squadron was Bande
Nere, and these two cruisers were ordered to sail from their base at Tripoli,
Libya for Leros in the Dodecanese. The two ships, under the command of Rear-
Admiral Casardi, sailed on the 17th July.
.P In the Aegean on patrol at that time was the Australian cruiser HMAS Sydney,
together with a destroyer escort. The Italian cruisers came across four of the
destroyers on the morning of the 19th. The Royal Navy ships were some distance
from Sydney and the fifth destroyer, and the Italian ships, designed and built
for destroyer killing, sought to engage the enemy.
.P However, unbeknown to Casardi, Sydney was lying in wait, as the British
destroyers were leading the Italians toward the Australian cruiser. Although
having the same six-inch main armament as the Italian cruisers, Sydney had better
armour protection and just before 0830hrs, She opened fire on the advancing
Italian vessels. Casardi ordered an immediate about turn, hoping to use his ships
greater speed to outrun Sydney and the destroyers. However, Colleoni was hit by a
shell that damaged her steering gear, and further hits soon caused her to stop
dead in the water.
.P She continued to fight for as long as she was able, but two of the destroyers,
Ilex and Hyperion, were able to get close enough to launch torpedoes and ninety
minutes after commencement of the battle, Colleoni blew up and sank with the loss
of 121 officers and men. Bande Nere had been able to outrun her pursuers and was
only lightly damaged in the action.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Another example is Chateaurenault, spelt Chatearenault in the master file and the naval CSV - Counter no. 4909. The cruiser Galissonniere (4913) is also missing her "La" in both.

Looks like both errors are the result of a mis-spelling/ wrong naming by ADG as I have checked my countersheets and the same mistakes have been made here too.

The Chateaurenault is spelled like that in the datafiles, not Chatearenault. You may have old datafiles.
The Galissonnière, you are saying it should be spelled La Galissonnière ?
If so, I prefer leaving that change to Steve, as this ship is included in setups, and me changing it would cause errors in all new game creations. Anyway this is not a biggie, as far as Galissonnière is rightly spelled. It is spelled like that Galissonnière, not like that Galissonniere in the datafiles.

Warspite1

1. Galissoniere - okay no problem - I`ll mention any other issues (if any) as I come across them and you tell me what you want to do.
2. Chateaurenault - okay, does that mean that my 2003 Cruisers in Flames is out of date i.e. ADG have spelt her correctly now in a subsequent version? I will amend the spelling on the naval master file only.

ADG have not released a new version of CLiF, the latest is still the 2003 one, with the u missing to Chateaurenault.
I was speaking about the MWiF datafiles only.

Next in the series - an Italian Battleship

[4978 Conte Di Cavour - By Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 93,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 28 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 12.6-inch (320mm), 12 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns.
.B Displacement (full load): 29,032 tons
.B Thickest armour: 10-inch (belt)
.P The three ships of the Cavour-class were built for the Regia Marina (RM)
between July 1910 and May 1914. They were the first Italian dreadnoughts.
.P They were originally fitted with a 12-inch main armament and were much less
powerful and slower ships than at the outbreak of the Second World War. However,
in the thirties the two surviving ships of the class were completely re-built.
Note the technical data above is after the modernisation program, completed in
1937. The third ship, Leonardo Da Vinci, was the victim of an internal explosion
during the First World War and she was not repaired.
.P The class also received completely new machinery which added 6 knots to their
original speed and the armoured protection was much enhanced and improved and
included a new underwater protection system.
.P Conte Di Cavour, named after a famous statesman who was heavily involved in
Italian unification during the 19th century, was completed in April 1915. At the
outbreak of the Second World War she was part of the 5th Battleship Division.
.P On the 9th July 1940, she took part in the inconclusive Battle of Punta Stilo
(Calabria), the first naval battle between the British and Italian fleets (see
Giulio Cesare).
.P The previous engagement at Punta Stilo made it clear to the Royal Navy that
they needed reinforcements in the Mediterranean. The first major operation to get
additional ships to the Mediterranean Fleet was launched at the end of August.
The British Operation HATS arguably gave the RM their best chance of the entire
war to inflict serious damage on the Royal Navy; it was a chance they squandered.
.P HATS attempted to get the new fleet carrier Illustrious, the battleship
Valiant, two anti-aircraft cruisers and additional destroyers to Alexandria. They
were escorted in the Western Mediterranean by the trouble-shooting Force H; but
this force was not to be the target of the Italian Fleet. Instead, it was the
Mediterranean Fleet, sailing from Alexandria to escort a Malta bound convoy and
to escort the reinforcements once they had left Force H, that were the targets.
The Mediterranean Fleet consisted of the old carrier Eagle, the battleships
Warspite and Malaya, the heavy cruiser Kent, the light cruisers Orion, Sydney,
Gloucester and Liverpool and escorting destroyers.
.P The Italians, commanded by Admiral Iachino, countered with no less than five
battleships and importantly, two of these were from the new Littorio-class. These
were Littorio, Vittorio Veneto, Caio Duillo, Conti Di Cavour and Giuilo Cesare.
In support were four heavy cruisers of the 1st Division, Pola, Zara, Fiume and
Gorizia, the light cruisers Abruzzi and Garibaldi of the 8th Division and a large
destroyer escort.
.P The Italian operation was hampered by problems with Cesare that meant she was
initially left behind in port. However, even with this set-back, the superiority
enjoyed by the Italians meant that the Royal Navy could find themselves in
trouble if the two fleets met. Although the British had the carrier Eagle, the
elderly carrier had less than twenty aircraft available. The rest of the fleet
sailed from Taranto and took up position to the south of Taranto and north-east
of Malta to await the British. But the Italian high command, incredibly, recalled
the fleet in the late afternoon.
.P They later reversed the decision and the fleet sailed south once more; this
time with the benefit of the repaired Cesare, in the hope that they would catch
the Royal Navy as they returned from Malta. However, the Italians paid for their
earlier indecision. The weather conditions had deteriorated and they were unable
to locate the enemy in the heavy seas. Furthermore, the Italian destroyers
struggled to maintain position in these conditions and many reached port in a
damaged condition. It was a disaster for the RM.
.P The beginning of the end for Conti Di Cavour came with the audacious British
attack on the Italian Fleet at Taranto in November 1940 (see Littorio). During
the attack by a handful of bi-plane Swordfish torpedo bombers launched from the
carrier Illustrious, she was hit by a torpedo and sank to the bottom of the
shallow harbour. Although she was eventually raised and sent to the port of
Trieste, she was never sufficiently repaired to see active service at sea again.
.P In September 1943, the Italians signed the Armistice with the Allies. Conti Di
Cavour was at Trieste and was scuttled by her crew. The Germans later raised her,
but she never went to sea again. Her end came on the 17th February 1945. She was
still at Trieste when she was bombed by British aircraft, causing her to sink for
the third time in the war; this time for good.

I hope to get the South Americans finalised this weekend and here is the first of these; an Argentinian heavy cruiser.

[4318 Almirante Brown - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 85,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 32 knots
.B Main armament: 6 x 7.5-inch (191mm), 12 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 9,000 tons
.B Thickest armour: 2.75-inch (belt)
.P The two Veinticinco De Mayo-class cruisers were built for the Argentinean
Navy between 1927 and 1931. They were designed and built in Italy and were based
upon the Trento-class heavy cruiser.
.P Although the basic design was that of the Trento-class, the Argentinean ships
differed significantly. They featured a lighter main armament; the Trentos having
8-inch guns, and were not as powerful, with a 4 knot differential in top speed
compared to the Italian ships. They were also less well armoured.
.P However, these vessels, along with another cruiser, seven destroyers and three
submarines purchased by Argentina during the thirties from Britain and Italy,
ensured that Argentina had the most modern fleet of the South American countries
during 1939-45; the period covered by World In Flames.
.P Almirante Brown was completed in July 1931. She is one of seven warships built
since 1826 that have been named after the Irishman William Brown; acknowledged as
the creator of the Argentinean Navy. He led the Argentinean Navy to victory over
its numerically superior Brazilian adversary during the war of 1825-1827.
.P ARA Almirante Brown was scrapped in 1961.

...and a battleship.

[4316 Rivadavia - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 40,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 22.5 knots
.B Main armament: 12 x 12-inch (305mm), 12 x 6-inch (152mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 30,600 tons
.B Thickest armour: 12-inch (belt)
.P The two Rivadavia-class battleships were built for the Argentinean Navy
in the United States between 1910 and 1915. A third ship was considered, but was
never ordered.
.P These ships were built in response to Brazil ordering the construction of the
Minas Gerais-class battleships. At the time there were still post-colonial border
issues between a number of South American countries, and as ever, it was
important to be able to argue from a position of strength.....
.P Their main armament was equivalent to the Brazilian ships, but the Rivadavias
had a more powerful 6-inch secondary armament in addition, no less than sixteen
4-inch guns.
.P They were significantly better armoured than the Brazilian ships and faster
too. Both ships of the class were modernised in the twenties when they were
converted from coal to oil-burning ships.
.P Rivadavia was completed in December 1914. She was named after Bernadino
Rivadavia, the first president of Argentina in 1826.
.P ARA Rivadavia was scrapped in 1956.

Two Argentinean cruisers to go and I`ve hit trouble...[&:]

There were two 19th Century vintage armoured cruisers in their navy by 1939; General Belgrano and Pueyrredon. I am missing the following reliable (or in some cases ANY) bits of info:

- Main and secondary armament
- Date transferred to Argentina from Italy
- What role they would have had in the late thirties

Any assistance would be hugely appreciated - together with source of info please.

Thank you [:)]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Two Argentinean cruisers to go and I`ve hit trouble...[&:]

There were two 19th Century vintage armoured cruisers in their navy by 1939; General Belgrano and Pueyrredon. I am missing the following reliable (or in some cases ANY) bits of info:

- Main and secondary armament
- Date transferred to Argentina from Italy
- What role they would have had in the late thirties

Any assistance would be hugely appreciated - together with source of info please.

Thank you [:)]

Maybe?

"The Pueyrredon was an Argentinean cruiser of 6100 tons displacement launched in 1897 as the Giuseppe Garibaldi. The Pueyrredon was powered by eight Yarrow boilers converted to burn oil in 1930, providing a top speed of 18 knots. She was armed with two 10-inch guns; eight 6-inch guns; four 6-pdr guns and one 37 mm anti-aircraft gun."

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi ... n&offset=0

"The Belgrano was an Argentinean cruiser of 6100 tons displacement launched in 1897 as the American ship USS Varese. The Belgrano was powered by eight Yarrow boilers converted to burn oil in 1930, providing a top speed of 18 knots. She was armed with two 10-inch guns; eight 4.7-inch guns; four 6-pdr guns and two 37 mm anti-aircraft guns."

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi ... d=Belgrano

Anyone well enough versed in Spanish might be able to find something here:

http://www.histarmar.com.ar/

Here is some British info on weapons:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_6-40_mk1.htm

"Gun Characteristics
.
Designation 6"/40 (15.2 cm) QF Marks I, III and III
Ship Class Used On Pre-dreadnoughts
Royal Sovereign, Hood, Renown, Majestic and Canopus classes
Armored cruisers
Diadem, Powerful, Royal Arthur and Edgar classes

Small cruisers
Blake, Aeolus, Brilliant, Iphigenia, Hermes, Challenger, Arrogant, Eclipse and Astraea classes

Rearmed Ships
Indefatigable, Intrepid, Rainbow and Sirius

Added to
Hercules, Immortalité and Narcissus

During World War I these guns were used on most large monitors and many AMCs and DAMS


These guns were used as secondaries on the Italian Garibaldi class armored cruisers, with the Argentine cruisers Pueyrredon and Admiral Belgrano using Mark II guns

Date Of Design 1888
Date In Service 1892
Gun Weight 6.6 tons (6.7 mt)
Gun Length oa 249.25 in (6.331 m)
Bore Length 240.0 in (6.096 m)
Rifling Length N/A
Grooves N/A
Lands N/A
Twist N/A
Chamber Volume 832 in3 (13.63 dm3)
Rate Of Fire 5 - 7 rounds per minute"

Also:

http://www.bobhenneman.info/pdlist.htm

"List of other pre-dreadnought vessels still in existence during WWII...

Argentina:

General Belgrano, armored cruiser (1895), as a submarine tender
Independencia, small coast defense ship (1889), as gunboat
Libertad, small coast defense ship (1889), as gunboat
Pueyrredon, armored cruiser (1895), as training ship
San Martin, armored cruiser (1895), as hulk"

ORIGINAL: MajorDude

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Two Argentinean cruisers to go and I`ve hit trouble...[&:]

There were two 19th Century vintage armoured cruisers in their navy by 1939; General Belgrano and Pueyrredon. I am missing the following reliable (or in some cases ANY) bits of info:

- Main and secondary armament
- Date transferred to Argentina from Italy
- What role they would have had in the late thirties

Any assistance would be hugely appreciated - together with source of info please.

Thank you [:)]

Maybe?

"The Pueyrredon was an Argentinean cruiser of 6100 tons displacement launched in 1897 as the Giuseppe Garibaldi. The Pueyrredon was powered by eight Yarrow boilers converted to burn oil in 1930, providing a top speed of 18 knots. She was armed with two 10-inch guns; eight 6-inch guns; four 6-pdr guns and one 37 mm anti-aircraft gun."

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi ... n&offset=0

"The Belgrano was an Argentinean cruiser of 6100 tons displacement launched in 1897 as the American ship USS Varese. The Belgrano was powered by eight Yarrow boilers converted to burn oil in 1930, providing a top speed of 18 knots. She was armed with two 10-inch guns; eight 4.7-inch guns; four 6-pdr guns and two 37 mm anti-aircraft guns."

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi ... d=Belgrano

Warspite1

MajorDude - that`s great thank-you. I will continue to search for more but importantly this will allow completion of the basic info required for the counters [:)]

...and the first of the Chilean naval vessels.

[4312 Almirante Latorre - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 37,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 22.75 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 14-inch (356mm), 16 x 6-inch (152mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 32,120 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9-inch (belt)
.P The Almirante Latorre-class battleships were ordered by Chile in response
to the Brazilian and Argentinean governments respectively ordering the Minas
Gerais and the Rivadavia battleship classes.
.P Chile`s response was to go one better and order two appreciably more powerful
battleships than either of her neighbours. For their construction, the Chileans
turned to the United Kingdom, and the British designed a ship based on their Iron
Duke-class. As said, they were powerfully armed, featuring no less than ten 14-
inch guns in five turrets and with a good speed for battleships of that era.
.P However, Chilean plans hit a rather large snag when the First world War broke
out in August 1914. The British bought the most advanced of the two vessels,
Almirante Latorre (Latorre), while suspending work on the second, Almirante
Cochrane.
.P Latorre was completed in September 1915 and was renamed HMS Canada. Her sister
ship too was later purchased by the British and completed as the aircraft carrier
HMS Eagle (see Commonwealth Counter 4557). Latorre meanwhile, having survived the
fleet encounter at Jutland in 1916, was returned to Chile in 1920. Eagle remained
with the Royal Navy as she could not be converted back into the battleship that
Chile desired.
.P Latorre was considerably modernised between 1929 and 1931. She was converted
to an oil burning vessel and provided with additional underwater protection.
.P Both ships were named after famous Chilean naval heroes, with Latorre, being
named after the hero of the Battle of Angamos, in which the Chilean Navy beat the
Peruvian Navy in 1879.
.P Almirante Latorre was scrapped in 1959.

A bit more that could help for more info on vessels of this type:

This author says there was a 10" both fore and aft...

"The end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th were golden times for the armaments industry. Every industrial nation and many that just wanted to join the club were in an armaments race. It was a seller’s market. There was no bigger market than the construction of warships. Armstrong of Great Britain was the leader in the built to order field of construction of warships for other countries. However, they were not alone. France, Germany and the United States had firms building major warships for foreign buyers.

The Italian firm of Ansaldo developed a very profitable design, the Garibaldi Armored Cruiser. The design was so respected that between 1894 and 1902 ten cruisers of the design were purchased by four different countries. Designed by Edoardo Masdea, the cruiser was almost a hybrid between a cruiser and a battleship. At 20 knots maximum speed the design was slightly slower than contemporary cruisers but was very heavily armed with a respectable degree of armor. All of this was accomplished in a very low displacement and moderate dimensions. Countries would not have to construct new dry docks for these cruisers. The first five were ordered by the Italian navy but almost as soon as one was ordered, another country would buy the cruisers. Argentina bought four and Spain one. The Argentine ships were Garibaldi formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi I laid down in 1894; San-Martin formerly Varese I laid down in 1895; General Belgrano formerly Varese II laid down in 1896; and Pueyrredon formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi III laid down in 1896. The one Spanish purchase was Cristobal Colon formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi II laid down in 1895. The Italian Navy kept the next three ordered; Giuseppe Garibaldi, laid down in 1898; Varese laid down in 1898; and Francesco Feruccio laid down in 1899...

...The ten Garibaldi Class armored cruisers had main armament fits to three different fits. Twin eight-inch (203mm) turrets fore and aft (San-Martin, Nisshin)single ten-inch (254mm) turrets fore and aft (Garibaldi, General Belgrano, Cristobal Colon, Pueyrredon) ; or one single 10-inch turret (254mm) forward and a twin 8-inch (203mm) aft (Giuseppe Garibaldi, Varese, Francesco Feruccio, Kasuga) Although the Spanish Cristobal Colon was designed for two single ten-inch gun turrets, the guns were never mounted in the turrets. She sailed with the Spanish cruiser squadron with only her ten 6-inch (152mm), six 4.7-inch (120mm) and ten 57mm and was sunk with the rest of the squadron at the Battle of Santiago de Cuba in July 1898..."

http://www.steelnavy.com/Box261Kasuga.htm

Just a list:

"Navy Ship Launched Fate
Argentina Garibaldi 27 May 1895 Decommissioned 20 March 1934
Argentina General Belgrano 1896 Decommissioned 8 May 1947
Argentina Pueyrredon 25 July 1898 Decommissioned 2 August 1954
Argentina San Martin 1896 Decommissioned 18 December 1935"

http://www.answers.com/topic/giuseppe-g ... ss-cruiser

ORIGINAL: MajorDude

A bit more that could help for more info on vessels of this type:

This author says there was a 10" both fore and aft...

"The end of the 19th Century and start of the 20th were golden times for the armaments industry. Every industrial nation and many that just wanted to join the club were in an armaments race. It was a seller’s market. There was no bigger market than the construction of warships. Armstrong of Great Britain was the leader in the built to order field of construction of warships for other countries. However, they were not alone. France, Germany and the United States had firms building major warships for foreign buyers.

The Italian firm of Ansaldo developed a very profitable design, the Garibaldi Armored Cruiser. The design was so respected that between 1894 and 1902 ten cruisers of the design were purchased by four different countries. Designed by Edoardo Masdea, the cruiser was almost a hybrid between a cruiser and a battleship. At 20 knots maximum speed the design was slightly slower than contemporary cruisers but was very heavily armed with a respectable degree of armor. All of this was accomplished in a very low displacement and moderate dimensions. Countries would not have to construct new dry docks for these cruisers. The first five were ordered by the Italian navy but almost as soon as one was ordered, another country would buy the cruisers. Argentina bought four and Spain one. The Argentine ships were Garibaldi formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi I laid down in 1894; San-Martin formerly Varese I laid down in 1895; General Belgrano formerly Varese II laid down in 1896; and Pueyrredon formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi III laid down in 1896. The one Spanish purchase was Cristobal Colon formerly Giuseppe Garibaldi II laid down in 1895. The Italian Navy kept the next three ordered; Giuseppe Garibaldi, laid down in 1898; Varese laid down in 1898; and Francesco Feruccio laid down in 1899...

...The ten Garibaldi Class armored cruisers had main armament fits to three different fits. Twin eight-inch (203mm) turrets fore and aft (San-Martin, Nisshin)single ten-inch (254mm) turrets fore and aft (Garibaldi, General Belgrano, Cristobal Colon, Pueyrredon) ; or one single 10-inch turret (254mm) forward and a twin 8-inch (203mm) aft (Giuseppe Garibaldi, Varese, Francesco Feruccio, Kasuga) Although the Spanish Cristobal Colon was designed for two single ten-inch gun turrets, the guns were never mounted in the turrets. She sailed with the Spanish cruiser squadron with only her ten 6-inch (152mm), six 4.7-inch (120mm) and ten 57mm and was sunk with the rest of the squadron at the Battle of Santiago de Cuba in July 1898..."

http://www.steelnavy.com/Box261Kasuga.htm

Just a list:

"Navy Ship Launched Fate
Argentina Garibaldi 27 May 1895 Decommissioned 20 March 1934
Argentina General Belgrano 1896 Decommissioned 8 May 1947
Argentina Pueyrredon 25 July 1898 Decommissioned 2 August 1954
Argentina San Martin 1896 Decommissioned 18 December 1935"

http://www.answers.com/topic/giuseppe-g ... ss-cruiser

Warspite1

Now we are starting to really get some where - and at first glance - the sources don`t contradict each other.....which is always a good sign. Thanks again [:)]

The General Belgrano and Pueyrredon were Giuseppe Garibaldi class armoured cruisers..

Design and history of the Giuseppe Garibaldi class armoured cruisers.

List of other pre-dreadnought vessels still in existence during WWII.

The Argentine Navy is called the Armada of the Argentine Republic ("Armada de la República Argentina" or abbreviated "ARA").




You may or may not want to use this information: Argentine Armored Cruisers - Avalanche Press game company

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and the first of the Chilean naval vessels.

[4312 Almirante Latorre - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 37,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 22.75 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 14-inch (356mm), 16 x 6-inch (152mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 32,120 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9-inch (belt)
.P The Almirante Latorre-class battleships were ordered by Chile in response
to the Brazilian and Argentinean governments respectively ordering the Minas
Gerais and the Rivadavia battleship classes.
.P Chile`s response was to go one better and order two appreciably more powerful
battleships than either of her neighbours. For their construction, the Chileans
turned to the United Kingdom, and the British designed a ship based on their Iron
Duke-class. As said, they were powerfully armed, featuring no less than ten 14-
inch guns in five turrets and with a good speed for battleships of that era.
.P However, Chilean plans hit a rather large snag when the First world War broke
out in August 1914. The British bought the most advanced of the two vessels,
Almirante Latorre (Latorre), while suspending work on the second, Almirante
Cochrane.
.P Latorre was completed in September 1915 and was renamed HMS Canada. Her sister
ship too was later purchased by the British and completed as the aircraft carrier
HMS Eagle (see Commonwealth Counter 4557). Latorre meanwhile, having survived the
fleet encounter at Jutland in 1916, was returned to Chile in 1920. Eagle remained
with the Royal Navy as she could not be converted back into the battleship that
Chile desired.
.P Latorre was considerably modernised between 1929 and 1931. She was converted
to an oil burning vessel and provided with additional underwater protection.
.P Both ships were named after famous Chilean naval heroes, with Latorre, being
named after the hero of the Battle of Angamos, in which the Chilean Navy beat the
Peruvian Navy in 1879.
.P Almirante Latorre was scrapped in 1959.

Warspite1

After a promising start with the interesting Almirante Latorre, the wheels have fallen off trying to find anything other than basic technical data on the old cruisers Chacabuca and O`Higgins. Same request for assistance please!!

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Warspite1

Okay, so we have master file incorrect but counter correct - I take it from this that the link between the counter name and the master file are not linked and therefore presumably there could be some errors the other way around?

The linkage between the unit's depiction (graphic), its writeup, and its data is done through the unit numbers.

Warspite1

Steve, as you know by now, I know nothing about computers and don`t intend touching anything I think may have an effect on something else [X(]. Therefore, if I think a spelling in the Master File is incorrect I will simply amend that and advise you / Patrice.

Well, if you're talking about the French what-if Gascogne class ships, it's spelled Gascogne in French, and the counter is wrong....
My 0.02 French € [;)]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets



The linkage between the unit's depiction (graphic), its writeup, and its data is done through the unit numbers.

Warspite1

Steve, as you know by now, I know nothing about computers and don`t intend touching anything I think may have an effect on something else [X(]. Therefore, if I think a spelling in the Master File is incorrect I will simply amend that and advise you / Patrice.

Well, if you're talking about the French what-if Gascogne class ships, it's spelled Gascogne in French, and the counter is wrong....
My 0.02 French € [;)]

Warspite1

What/who is she named after?

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Warspite1

Steve, as you know by now, I know nothing about computers and don`t intend touching anything I think may have an effect on something else [X(]. Therefore, if I think a spelling in the Master File is incorrect I will simply amend that and advise you / Patrice.

Well, if you're talking about the French what-if Gascogne class ships, it's spelled Gascogne in French, and the counter is wrong....
My 0.02 French € [;)]

Warspite1

What/who is she named after?

A region in southwestern France:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gascony

'Gascoigne' (GAS-KWAN-YUH) instead of 'Gascogne' (GAS-KONE-YUH) would be possbily the way someone in the border region between France and Belgium might 'pronounce' it, but it is not spelled that way.

It is spelled 'Gascogne' as far as I know. [:)]

ORIGINAL: MajorDude

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco




Well, if you're talking about the French what-if Gascogne class ships, it's spelled Gascogne in French, and the counter is wrong....
My 0.02 French € [;)]

Warspite1

What/who is she named after?

A region in southwestern France:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gascony

'Gascoigne' (GAS-KWAN-YUH) instead of 'Gascogne' (GAS-KONE-YUH) would be possbily the way someone in the border region between France and Belgium might 'pronounce' it, but it is not spelled that way.

It is spelled 'Gascogne' as far as I know. [:)]

Warspite1

Oh well - looks like ADG got that one wrong - Patrice/Steve - how do you want to play this? Leave as is or amend?

Having said that, it strange that three ships of the class were named after famous Frenchmen and the fourth, after a region? Is there no Gascoigne (person) this could have been named after?

...last ones from me tonight, the sole Mexican naval representative and one of the two Peruvian cruisers.

[4304 Anahuac - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 6,800 hp
.B Top Speed: 14 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 9-inch (240mm), 4 x 4.7-inch (120mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 3,162 tons
.B Thickest armour: 14-inch (belt)
.P Strictly speaking this is a World In Flames "What if" counter. The name
ship on this counter was scrapped by the Mexican Navy before the period covered
by World In Flames. The remaining vessels within the Mexican Navy at that time
were insufficient to warrant even a World In Flames flotilla counter.
.P The coastal defence ship Anahuac began life as a Marshal Deodoro-class vessel,
built for the Brazilian Navy by the French in 1898. She was one of two ships of
the class and was sold to Mexico in 1924.
.P Strangely, given her lengthy coastline and central position in the Americas,
Mexico has never had a large navy. The purchase of Marshal Deodoro was part of an
effort to redress this issue, but the exercise amounted to little, and after
fourteen years of being used mainly as a training vessel, the Mexicans scrapped
her.
.P Anahuac was named after the Battle of Anahuac in 1835 in which the Mexicans
defeated a Texan army.
.P ARM Anahuac was scrapped in 1938.


[4305 Almirante Grau - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine output: 14,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 24 knots
.B Main armament: 2 x 6-inch (152mm), 8 x 3-inch (76.2mm) guns
.B Displacement (standard): 3,200 tons
.B Thickest armour: No belt armour
.P The Almirante Grau-class cruisers were built for the Peruvian navy between
1906 and 1907. They were the backbone of their fleet until they were both
scrapped in 1958.
.P They were officially termed as scout cruisers and were designed and built in
the United Kingdom. They were lightly armed and armoured ships.
.P In the mid-twenties they were refitted, during which they were modified from
being coal burning and given an oil burning propulsion system. A further refit
took place in the UK in the mid-thirties, and they were given new machinery and
fitted with replacement 3-inch anti-aircraft guns.
.P Almirante Grau was completed in October 1906. She was named after the famous
Peruvian Admiral, Miguel Grau, who was killed fighting the Chilean Navy at the
Battle of Angamos in October 1879.
.P BAP Almirante Grau was scrapped in 1958.

I'm starting to think I want someone to build me a South America in Flames game to play covering the 19th Century.

ORIGINAL: Wikipedia

The Normandie class (Normandie, Gascogne, Languedoc, Flandre, Bearn) had been laid down during WW1 but couldn't be completed due to the Treaty of Washington. The hull of the Bearn was finished as an aircraft carrier during the 20th.

Originally, four units were planned, but only the first two, the Richelieu and the Jean Bart, were fitting at the outbreak of the Second World War.
The third unit, the Clemenceau, was broken up while still under construction. The fourth unit, the planned Gascogne, was never started. She was planned to bear her second turret on the aft of the ship, bringing back a more traditional design.

As MajorDude has pointed out both were named for a region in southwestern France