Matrix Games Forums

Just sent this thought to all our players within this campaign:
 
Hey Paul!
 
Michael and I had this very discussion over the phone last weekend. 
 
Here are my proposals for the multi-player game:
 
1.  We should play until January 1, 1943 and see if Japan can win by auto-victory (4-1).  Cold Bay and Bombay should be decisively settled by that point and we'll know what the war would look like for 1943. 
 
At THAT point...
 
2.  We all start-up AE and begin a new multiplayer campaign using the new game!  If we planned on doing this then I wager we would be among the first multi-player games on the AE Forum and it might REALLY generate some interest.  The game would be new and fresh for all of us and it might be REAL fun to see what happens.
 
NOTE:
My life situation has allowed me to simply observe and provide input to Michael and Brad.  The moment I land a job, my situation opens up some and I will take the reins back from Michael. 
 
Having the job also allows AUTHORIZATION from my Boss--this being the LOVELY Paula--to buy the game!  :>

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Sounds like we can move on all three fronts without too much difficulty!  Thoughts:

1.  Philippines--Lets move the VM Inf Div and the new Brigade appearing at Hainan to Luzon and see if they are enough.  If we can add those Naval Guard to the attack, we should be looking pretty good.  The troops up there have got to be in horrific shape and I HOPE will surrender fairly easily.  Moving planes in from China can add to the bombardment.  I would use the repaired CAs for Bombardment runs (as long as it is safe).

3.  Bombay--IF you guys think we can take it then that is GREAT!  I like spitting the BBs into Divisions so the base is hit every turn.  This--plus air attack--should serve to massively damage the fighting strength there.  As long as we can keep dropping the Forts then we have a solid shot.

RE: PI, don't get too Bombardment happy there. Ft. Drum?[:-] Better be neutralized before we even try it. I send an AG by Bataan every so often to see if they have ammo. Last time I checked, YES, they do. We have more Barge Captain volunteers at Lingayen to give it another check.

RE: Bombay, I have kept the BB bombardments down for now to limit Ops damage, and SAVE them for when the forts drop to ZERO. Until then, one bombardment on Attack Days only seems to be enough to keep the forts dropping. I think the forts will keep dropping, as long as we rest the troops sufficiently between attacks. Should be at Zero around 10/20 ish or so.

Am waiting on hearing about the turn from Michael.  The Uber-KB moved closer to Kodiak (about 7 hexes) to protect a Fast Transport run as well as an AK convoy carrying 12,500 supply.  We shall see if anything happens.  A US CV was spotted visually two days ago so we know some of the CVs are still present.  There is a CAP of nearly 80 Wildcats over Kodiak so we can guess the US Fleet is still present--just disbanded.
 
As we talked, Michael and I agreed to move the CVs with a 6 hex range and if nothing happens, send in a pair of STF to hit any shipping at Kodiak.  We have all 4 BC and numerous cruisers to accomplish this.  If we do this it will certainly ratchet up the pressure on Kodiak and Cold Bay.
 
It appears most of our players are up for an AE match once some time has passed and the updates/bugs are worked out.  Does anyone know if we will be looking at constant restarts with AE Upgrades/Corrections or will they be able to be added to ongoing campaigns?
 

I went through the Combat Report for the current turn and there was no action up North. 
 
Michael--Do you plan to release the STF to hit Kodiak?
 
It appears that everyone has chimed in from the 'how long do we want to play?' email and all of us agree on January 1, 1943 for an end date.  This should provide enough time for the important areas to resolve and we'll see where things end at that point.
 

Last turn showed 7 TF at Kodiak with a confirmed sighting on BB North Carolina. There were over 6 different types of fighters on CAP, but I was too slow to get a screenshot of how many of each. I will try to do so tonight. I plan to keep super-KB 7 hexes away (too far away for a one turn move with their SC TF) and allow supplies to unload at Cold Bay. A second supply TF will stay at Dutch Harbor as I don't want to give them that many targets. I converted the Fast Transport TF to a Bombardment TF and they should hit Cold Bay in 2 days.
 
Did you notice in the e-mail that they still have over 500k worth of supply at Bombay??
 
I will re-start my other 2 PBEMs as Japan with AE soon and allow John to finish here.  

look at the bright side;
 
you get to destroy about 5K of supply with every supplyhit dealt
 
do you guys believe its a bluff? 500K is A LOT, even for the allied side !?!
(or would that mean that Karachi is about empty..?) 

Combat Report
September 22, 1942
 
The last two months in the Aleutians has seen a real give-and-take between the Americans and Japanese.  The battle has centered around Cold Bay with each side bringing in supplies and reinforcements at some cost.  The most frustrating part of this has been the inability of the Imperial Fleet to get into the action.  For nearly all of July and August the Fleet underwent rest and refit in the Home Islands. 

Once the KB arrived, the Americans wisely pulled back towards their forward base at Kodiak.  Protected by nearly 150 Army and Navy fighters flying CAP, the Americans have waited for a Japanese move.  That move occurred on the 20th when the Fleet was spotted covering for a supply drop at Cold Bay.  Rather then retreat or foolishly strike at the American bastion, the Japanese Fleet cooly waited about 450 miles SW of Kodiak tempting the American Navy to 'come out and play.'

To Admiral Nagumo's immense surprise the Americans do EXACTLY that on September 22, 1942.  The results could not turn out any better for the Kaigun!

Nagumo's Combat Log

0530-0600 
Recon Planes launched from 3 CS and BB/CAs on normal Search

0555
Electrifying news arrives from Chiyoda Scout 7 that an American Carrier (Yorktown-Class) is spotted only 65 miles due east of the Fleet! 

0605
An American Scout plane spots Nagumo's immense Fleet.

0612
Chitose Scout 2 picks up another Carrier TF (USS Saratoga) 125 miles away!

0615
Japanese CVs begin reinforcing their CAP to a total of nearly 125 Zeros

0640-0725
Twelve Japanese carriers turn into the wind to launch a massed strike of nearly 500 aircraft:  175 Zero, 42 Val, 270 Kate.  Unfortunately the American Strikes begin to arrive as the Japanese desperately attempt to get the last of their aircraft in the air and on their way. 

0715-0722
The Wasp's (CV indentifed later through prisoners) Strike Force arrives in the form of 15 Wildcats, 28 SBD, and 12 Avengers.  They don't stand a chance as the Japanese CAP pours into them.  Nearly all of the Japanese pilots are veterans of the entire war and they decimate the incoming strike.  There are no American survivors and not a single bomb or torpedo is dropped at a Japanese ship.  Only 2 Zeros are lost during the short fight.

0745-0800
While a number of Zeros are being refueled and rearmed, USS Saratoga's Strike Wing appears.  Only 75 Zeros meet this attack but it only has to contend with 6 Wildcats and 36 SBD.  While the American fighter use a new weaving tactic costing the Japanese 5 Zeros, all but 4 SBD are shot down.  The last Dauntlesses drop their 1000lb bombs on BC Hiei hitting her once for minor damage.

0802-0837
Captain Fuchida organizes his massed Strike and wings to the east.  After about 20 minutes of flight, Fuchida spots one CV TF (Wasp) hidden under a rainshower.  He elects to leave Junyo/Hiyo and the CVL Strike Groups circling to wait a chance to hit Wasp.  With the majority of his force he moves on east to find CV Saratoga under partly cloudy skies. 

A stout CAP of 45 Wildcats meets the incoming Japanese.  Nearly 130 Japanese Zeros swarm over the American Fighters while 210 Kates begin moving into attack position.  This is certainly a large degree of overkill and Fuchida orders specific CV Torpedo planes to attack several of the cruisers protecting Saratoga.  As the Wildcats are swept aside by the Sea Eagles and their nimble Zeros (all Wildcats in exchange for 18 Zero) the Kates begin the destruction of Saratoga.  Over half the force attacks Saratoga and the large carrier capsizes after 8 torps open her up to the sea.  All of Saratoga's CA/CL escort are hit.  CAs Portland and Northampton as well as CLs St. Louis and Helena are all hit with 1-3 Torps each.

With satisfaction Fuchida radio's in his report.

850-919
The Strike Groups circling Wasp don't get the chance to attack this CV as it hides under the rainstrom so they elect to finish off some of Sara's escorts.  A total of 46 Zero, 42 Val, and 60 Kates attack the beleagored cruisers adding more damage to them and sinking CL Helena.

1000-1145
Recovery of Japanese Strikes occur with few mishaps.

0100-0145
The final Japanese Strike of the day sees a force of 131 Zero, 63 Val, and 195 Kate take to the air to find and finish CV Wasp. 

0235-0258
Wasp, now without cloud cover, is easily destroyed by the Japanese assault.  She slips beneath the waves after absorbing 9 Bombs and 6 Torps.  BB North Caolina also sinks having taken a total of 1 Bomb and 8 Torps.  CA Quincy and CLAA San Diego are heavily damaged as well during the attack.  The paltry CAP of 14 Wildcats are shotdown in exchange for a total of 10 Zero, 4 Val, and 12 Kate.

0345-0500
Recovery of aircraft!


It is a boisterious Fleet that celebrates the victory this day!  A total of 4 US CVs (as well as 2 British CV) have now been sunk during the war and there is no doubt about who controls the Pacific through the end of 1943!  For no CV damage (again) the Japanese lose a total of only 63 planes.  The 8 CV and 4 CVL know that they will be joined during the next year by another 3-4 CV and 2 CVL to raise their awesome aerial firepower against WHATEVER the American might throw at them!

It is indeed a time to celebrate and open many a flask of Sake!

BANZAI!  BANZAI!!  BANZAI!!!

Holy CATS!  Scratch Saratoga, Wasp, BB North Carolina, and CL Helena with at least another 5 CA/CL/CLAA to be sunk tomorrow...
 
I have no idea WHY the Americans sortied with only 2 CV but it was great to listen to Mike's play-by-play as the fight occurred!  This Japanese Admiral gratefully thanks Adm. Benoit for taking over the game and then letting me help as we have played out the last 3 months.
 
With our victory over the Royal Navy in the east and now this 'battle' the war is effectively settled until at least late-1943.
 
How about that??!!
 
WOW...
 

How close to Auto-victory now?

I just recieved this e-mail from one of our opponents.

I see John is sounding the BANZAI chant across the forum (from the latest post titling on the forum first page - not reading your AAR obviously) - I wonder if he mentioned the flagrant HR violation of no more than 450 CV a/c in a hex. Your first strike equlled the HR limit, and then include the CAP, naval search and 2nd strike.

To say I'm a little pissed off is evident. I've asked Paul if he wants to consider asking for a re-run of the turn so you split Uber-KB into two hexes. I'll go with whatever he says. I don't mind loosing 2 RN CVs in a fair fight, but I feel 'victory disease' is becoming evident.

Rgds
Steve

We will need to resolve this issue as I was unaware of this HR when I did the orders.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I just recieved this e-mail from one of our opponents.

I see John is sounding the BANZAI chant across the forum (from the latest post titling on the forum first page - not reading your AAR obviously) - I wonder if he mentioned the flagrant HR violation of no more than 450 CV a/c in a hex. Your first strike equlled the HR limit, and then include the CAP, naval search and 2nd strike.

To say I'm a little pissed off is evident. I've asked Paul if he wants to consider asking for a re-run of the turn so you split Uber-KB into two hexes. I'll go with whatever he says. I don't mind loosing 2 RN CVs in a fair fight, but I feel 'victory disease' is becoming evident.

Rgds
Steve

We will need to resolve this issue as I was unaware of this HR when I did the orders.

I guess I see the point but they sent two CV's against 8 CV and CVL. WHat did they think was going to happen? Jeesh

I agree with your point. I was thinking the same thing even when I was watching the actual combat. What were they trying to accomplish by sending only 2 CVs in separate TF that ended up 2 hexes apart??

Guys, I think some people might be missing the point here.... HRs are sacrosanct. The IJN disposition during the turn violated HRs and thus the turn MUST be rerun. I prefer to play with few HRs myself but what HRs there are must be sacrosanct.
 
The HRs were violated and the turn must be rerun irrespective of the outcome. It is that simple.
 
 
With that said even with the HR re: max planes per hex in place 2 vs 8 is a losing proposition. That is beside the point though, HRs were violated and thus irrespective of the outcome the turn must be rerun. Anything else would result in any players involved being added to a mental "Never play that guy" list as how can you trust someone who violates an HR ( albeit unintentionally ) but then argues that the violation doesn't require a rerun of the turn.
 
The effect on the game is an absolute irrelevance compared to this.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Guys, I think some people might be missing the point here.... HRs are sacrosanct.

Anything else would result in any players involved being added to a mental "Never play that guy" list as how can you trust someone who violates an HR

Yeah, definitely have to add the jackasses who make house rules and then don't play by them to the "Never play that guy" again list.[8D]

Hello stalkerboy [8D].

What itsjustme is referring to is, obviously, a disagreement we had about HRs in a game he and I played about 2 yrs ago. I'd point out that it is one thing to disagree over the interpretation of a somewhat vague rule and another to clearly violate a mathematical limit (450 planes per hex ).

Itsjustme....If you have something to say to me have the integrity to PM me and not pollute someone else's thread please.

I would agree with Nemo on this point..  While the violation of the HR was completely unintentional, it would be against the spirit of the game to allow any benefit gained to stand..

Just agreeing with Nemo.   Don't play with Jackasses that don't adhere to the rules they agreed to.

I was not aware of the 450 aircraft per hex limit on carrier based planes. Remember, I took over in early August 42 from John due to his legal issues. I had already written back about it and awaiting confirmation from the Allies about their desires.

I think the term Jackass in unwarranted in this case.  A jackass would be a player knowingly, with full understanding of the HR, violate them for his benefit.  Then if caught would try to explain away the occurrence with some system issues, or the game caused this.  Then would refuse to make recompense..  Ny59 (Gerris Wilkinson) has done none of that.  There is no reason to doubt his word the he was unaware.  Furthermore he is in communication with his opponents on how they wish to precede.  Hardly the actions of a Jackass.
Regards,
Hornblower.. Jets #73

I agree and apologize.   My comments were directed at those who intentionally violate HRs that they agreed to.  Not an inadvertent violation.

No offense intended to Gerris.