Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:32 pm**

Here's what the 1942 Force Pool (build ahead) has to offer for land units:

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:39 pm**

I think this image should help explain some of the confusion about building Soviet "INF" units, and also why I hesitate to DOW in M/A '41 . . . all of those MIL units listed as "Future Force Pool Addition" arrive as soon as the USSR is at war. They could build a bunch of those and spoil things for Germany if the turn is very short.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:43 pm**

Look at the typical combat factors of those MIL and ask yourself as the German player if you find those totals all that worrying. There's a lot of trash in there.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 pm**

Build MOT? I would build Koniev, the two white print INF and GAR first. Then the MOT, for gearing reasons only. I hate MOT, since they need oil, are expensive and use the motorised movement rates. They aren't white print and haven't got any better combat factors, as the white prints in the force pools at this moment. I would even be tempted to build the Ski divisions before the MOT...

Vatutin is nice to build ahead, however 8 BP is a awful lot to pay for him.

Yes, among those MIL there is a lot of crap, but it is cheap crap and they arrive very fast unto the map. Also: keep in mind that some are going to get destroyed and won't be build or rebuild, because of the home town of the MIL being taken by the enemy.
I would empty this pool, if there aren't any INF or GAR to be build any more. Gearing limits need to be as high as possible on INF...

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:45 pm**

ORIGINAL: composer99

To be fair, Bessarabia is in the arctic area if memory serves, so snow should be suitable for a March/April DoW.

BTW: haven't seen an end-of-turn report. I assume that's because the various players concerned about the US gear up (in particular US player Red Prince, Japan player Red Prince, CW player Red Prince) are engaged in some serious cogitation. [;)]

The Bessarabia in the Arctic is only parial (see below).

The reason I haven't given an end-of-turn report yet is that I still haven't figured out the best thing to do with China. To surrender or not to surrender . . . that is the question . . . whether 'tis nobler to go down without a fight and try to help the USA enter the war . . . or suffer the slings and arrows of an Extreme-DOW party . . . I just can't decide what to do, and that's going to impact builds and even where I return units to base.

Now, about Bessarabia, here's how the last impulse of J/F '41 looked. If something similar happens, and the Axis gets the first impulse, how useful is this, really?

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:46 pm**

I think it would be better to build other things for USSR than to advance build units. Maybe a FTR2?

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:47 pm**

I recommend that China stays in the war a bit longer.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:51 pm**

ORIGINAL: composer99

Look at the typical combat factors of those MIL and ask yourself as the German player if you find those totals all that worrying. There's a lot of trash in there.

Again, it's not the quality I'm worried about, it's the quantity that troubles me. I want to have several impulses to try to kill "real" Soviet units. If I only get 2-3 impulses of mid-level odds attacks due to bad weather, the 2nd turn of the war will see these guys starting to get to the front and taking the losses instead. I figure every INF or better that I can kill is worth 2 of these guys.

Circumstances may force me to do it anyway.

On a slightly different subject, if the Axis gets the initiative, does it force the Allies to move first? I suppose that, too depends on Chinese surrender and potential USA DOW situations.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:53 pm**

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think it would be better to build other things for USSR than to advance build units. Maybe a FTR2?

I agree with this. The FTR units on the map are mostly the junk that couldn't be scrapped to start the game. There are some semi-nice FTR in the Force Pool now that can make a difference when summer rolls around.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:57 pm**

FTR 2 is always good, however you should build at least 4 INF type units every turn by the USSR. That gearing limit is so very important...

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:59 pm**

ORIGINAL: Centuur

FTR 2 is always good, however you should build at least 4 INF type units every turn by the USSR. That gearing limit is so very important...

I won't be able to do that until the war starts. And, when it does, free gearing everywhere.

Boy, what I wouldn't give to know what the opening weather roll is going to be for the next turn . . . [&:]

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:02 pm**

USSR gets free gearing once it goes to war so I do not feel that there is any concern for INF gearing.

Germany, however, I feel needs to gear up infantry production. Time to build the strong German MOT. And make sure that Germany has all infantry division on map or on the way.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:02 pm**

As far as I know, the USSR will get 17 bp this turn for production.

I think everyone will agree that HQ-I Koniev is a must-build (5 bp).

So that leaves 12 bp to play with. I think there are two ways to play it: build the MECH or not.

Build the MECH
This spends 5 more bp on the white-print 8-5 MECH, leaving 7 bp for other spending.

If you go with my suggestion of a MOT (4 bp), you could also build an INF (3 bp).

If you don't build a MOT, then an INF (3 bp), GARR (2 bp) and ftr2 (2 bp) would do the trick.

Do not build the MECH
An infantry-heavy build would see both INF (6 bp), the GARR (2 bp), and a ftr2 (2 bp) built, leaving 2 bp to be spent on either a division (ski or mot) or a pilot.

A motorized-heavy build could see 3 MOT (all 12 bp), or 2 MOT (8 bp), the GARR (2 bp) and either a ftr2 or a division

A balanced build could see 1 MOT (4 bp), 2 INF (6 bp), 1 GARR (2 bp) or maybe swap out the MOT for an aa gun (or 2 divisions) or the GARR for a ftr2 or division.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:02 pm**

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend that China stays in the war a bit longer.

This I agree on. Let the Japanese decide what to do about China. Only if by surrendering you are getting at least an 80% chanche on DoW'ing Japan succesfully with the USA in the next impulse, you might decide otherwise. If not: keep China alive.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:13 pm**

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Build MOT? I would build Koniev, the two white print INF and GAR first. Then the MOT, for gearing reasons only. I hate MOT, since they need oil, are expensive and use the motorised movement rates. They aren't white print and haven't got any better combat factors, as the white prints in the force pools at this moment. I would even be tempted to build the Ski divisions before the MOT...

Vatutin is nice to build ahead, however 8 BP is a awful lot to pay for him.

Yes, among those MIL there is a lot of crap, but it is cheap crap and they arrive very fast unto the map. Also: keep in mind that some are going to get destroyed and won't be build or rebuild, because of the home town of the MIL being taken by the enemy.
I would empty this pool, if there aren't any INF or GAR to be build any more. Gearing limits need to be as high as possible on INF...

Sorry, I was assuming the INF would be built.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:16 pm**

ORIGINAL: composer99

As far as I know, the USSR will get 17 bp this turn for production.

I think everyone will agree that HQ-I Koniev is a must-build (5 bp).

So that leaves 12 bp to play with. I think there are two ways to play it: build the MECH or not.

Build the MECH
This spends 5 more bp on the white-print 8-5 MECH, leaving 7 bp for other spending.

If you go with my suggestion of a MOT (4 bp), you could also build an INF (3 bp).

If you don't build a MOT, then an INF (3 bp), GARR (2 bp) and ftr2 (2 bp) would do the trick.

Do not build the MECH
An infantry-heavy build would see both INF (6 bp), the GARR (2 bp), and a ftr2 (2 bp) built, leaving 2 bp to be spent on either a division (ski or mot) or a pilot.

A motorized-heavy build could see 3 MOT (all 12 bp), or 2 MOT (8 bp), the GARR (2 bp) and either a ftr2 or a division

A balanced build could see 1 MOT (4 bp), 2 INF (6 bp), 1 GARR (2 bp) or maybe swap out the MOT for an aa gun (or 2 divisions) or the GARR for a ftr2 or division.

I would build the MECH (it is indeed a very good one), INF, GAR and FTR2. This than leaves one white print INF for next turn, together with the Ski divisions if the Germans are still not going to declare war. You are right about the MECH. With people suggesting MOT's I didn't look far enough...
Oh, for Red Prince: the Communists weather forecast: Rain and stormy weather in the Arctic for the whole spring turn. The five year plan did foresee this to happen in 1941... [:D]

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:18 pm**

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think it would be better to build other things for USSR than to advance build units. Maybe a FTR2?
I agree with this. The FTR units on the map are mostly the junk that couldn't be scrapped to start the game. There are some semi-nice FTR in the Force Pool now that can make a difference when summer rolls around.

Land units only for the USSR until they can form up a continuous defensive line from the north to the south. Fighters fly once per turn and unless the frontline has stabilized, they are overrun at no cost to the Germans and destroyed including a pilot that's 4 BPs.

If you are really desperate for options as to what to do with extra build points, save them! You will want them later when the force pool is overflowing with dead INF.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:23 pm**

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: composer99

To be fair, Bessarabia is in the arctic area if memory serves, so snow should be suitable for a March/April DoW.

BTW: haven't seen an end-of-turn report. I assume that's because the various players concerned about the US gear up (in particular US player Red Prince, Japan player Red Prince, CW player Red Prince) are engaged in some serious cogitation. [;)]
The Bessarabia in the Arctic is only parial (see below).

The reason I haven't given an end-of-turn report yet is that I still haven't figured out the best thing to do with China. To surrender or not to surrender . . . that is the question . . . whether 'tis nobler to go down without a fight and try to help the USA enter the war . . . or suffer the slings and arrows of an Extreme-DOW party . . . I just can't decide what to do, and that's going to impact builds and even where I return units to base.

Now, about Bessarabia, here's how the last impulse of J/F '41 looked. If something similar happens, and the Axis gets the first impulse, how useful is this, really?

With all the Stukas down south, as the USSR I would pull as many units as possible out of those hexes. Ground strikes on 3 units in a clear hex during the surprise turn are a German dream come true.

EDIT: and the division does not have a ZOC, so a reserve will have to be added to Cernauti to prevent the Germans running freely through the line. What bothers me the most is there are 11 units here (I like the unit in Lvov) to hold onto the Odessa factory. 3 more reserve units appear to be scheduled for this area. I would have chosen 1 unit (in Odessa) plus the 3 reserves. Wouldn't those other 10 units look lovely positioned along the Dnieper?

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:28 pm**

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend that China stays in the war a bit longer.
This I agree on. Let the Japanese decide what to do about China. Only if by surrendering you are getting at least an 80% chanche on DoW'ing Japan succesfully with the USA in the next impulse, you might decide otherwise. If not: keep China alive.

The reason this is troubling me is that I won't have 80%, but I'll have a very good chance at 70%.

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:29 pm**

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think it would be better to build other things for USSR than to advance build units. Maybe a FTR2?
I agree with this. The FTR units on the map are mostly the junk that couldn't be scrapped to start the game. There are some semi-nice FTR in the Force Pool now that can make a difference when summer rolls around.
Land units only for the USSR until they can form up a continuous defensive line from the north to the south. Fighters fly once per turn and unless the frontline has stabilized, they are overrun at no cost to the Germans and destroyed including a pilot that's 4 BPs.

If you are really desperate for options as to what to do with extra build points, save them! You will want them later when the force pool is overflowing with dead INF.

I find that a few decent FTR2 goes a long way to keep the German player from making long ranged ground strikes on key units. USSR can rebase 2 or 3 of them back each impulse along the retreating infantry.

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