Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Stamb

So army both Axis and Soviet can assist with all kinds of rolls to a unit that is directly attached to it with 10 hexes without a penalty?

no

as ever, direct command has to be no more than 5 hexes regardless of the notional level of the commanding HQ

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Stamb

So army both Axis and Soviet can assist with all kinds of rolls to a unit that is directly attached to it with 10 hexes without a penalty?

no

as ever, direct command has to be no more than 5 hexes regardless of the notional level of the commanding HQ

I wasnt aware of this Errata.

So if the Command structure had no Corps for Axis but did include Army and Army Group, then it would be as follows:

Army –5
Army Group/Front–15
High command -20

or

Army –5
Army Group/Front–10
High command -15

What is road construction units good for? Are they just construction battalions with another name?

ORIGINAL: Jeff_Ahl

What is road construction units good for? Are they just construction battalions with another name?

yes, they have no specialist role

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Stamb

So army both Axis and Soviet can assist with all kinds of rolls to a unit that is directly attached to it with 10 hexes without a penalty?

no

as ever, direct command has to be no more than 5 hexes regardless of the notional level of the commanding HQ

I wasnt aware of this Errata.

So if the Command structure had no Corps for Axis but did include Army and Army Group, then it would be as follows:

Army –5
Army Group/Front–15
High command -20

or

Army –5
Army Group/Front–10
High command -15

I think Stamb has mixed up the errata (ie how the range penalty is calculated) with the base rules which haven't changed.

Its all about the distance from unit to the HQ. The first step must be 5 or less hexes - regardless of the owning HQ. So a combat unit that reports to say Stavka or OKH must be within 5 hexes or is out of command.

Beyond that, the distances for each subsequent HQ are their base range.

So as an extreme eg, a German corps reporting to OKH. The Corps HQ needs to be within 5 hexes of its controlled formations, OKH 90 (ie OKH doesn't start operating as if it was a German army)

Hmm, looks like I really mixes things up. I was asking about combat support (admin, initiative, mech, infantry skills) for a HQ and units that are attached directly to it.
And section from a manual that I was quoting is talking about additional penalties for a range?

Why do we subtract -10 from an Army if there is n/15 (where n is range in hexes to an Army in this example) in a unit box that is attached to an Army? What does this /15 means?

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Hmm, looks like I really mixes things up. I was asking about combat support (admin, initiative, mech, infantry skills) for a HQ and units that are attached directly to it.
And section from a manual that I was quoting is talking about additional penalties for a range?

Why do we subtract -10 from an Army if there is n/15 (where n is range in hexes to an Army in this example) in a unit box that is attached to an Army? What does this /15 means?

there are two sets of rules, closely related, one set is binary, the other depends on distance.

So the binary rules - lets stick to the Axis for simplicity (& assume a standard command chain):

a) a corps can give out leadership values, support units and support squads to the units it commands if it is within 5 hexes
b) an army can give out leadership values and support squads to the units it commands if it is within 15 hexes

You can check the distances for Army Group and High Command in the manual but its the same principle

Distance rules

these split into two

a) if a command test is failed at the corps level, there is a chance it will be redeemed at army or army group or HQ level - see 15.5.3 and the worked examples (no point repeating that here)
b) as a test moves up the command chain, distance to the target unit further reduces the chance to pass (the tables in 15.5.4 give you the principle and basic logic here)

But, 15.5.4 has an error, hence the errata in 01.01.01, all that does is to increase the distance before the distance rules come into effect, so in the base manual a HQ is described as triggering the distance (physical) malus at 6 hexes, all the errata does is to delay this transition point to 11.

So an Army HQ within 10 hexes of the target unit has no distance penalty, in the worked example one 15 hexes had a range modifier of 5/2 - the rest of the calculation follows as described

Or in other words, don't mix up the fixed max command ranges with the impact of the range factors

Thanks for the info!

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Stamb

So army both Axis and Soviet can assist with all kinds of rolls to a unit that is directly attached to it with 10 hexes without a penalty?

no

as ever, direct command has to be no more than 5 hexes regardless of the notional level of the commanding HQ

I wasnt aware of this Errata.

So if the Command structure had no Corps for Axis but did include Army and Army Group, then it would be as follows:

Army –5
Army Group/Front–15
High command -20

or

Army –5
Army Group/Front–10
High command -15

How does this work for the soviets?

in a setup division - army HQ ... army HQ range is 15, but in order for an army to provide support units it has to be within 5 hexes of the division?

It works the same for the Soviets. Typically your units will be assigned to an army and army to a front.
If unit is attached directly to a HQ of any type then this HQ has to be within a range of 5 hexes.

okay mistakes were made [:D]

this means i need many more army HQ now - ive put them reasonably far behind the front, utilizing their 15 range but that means they were not providing support units. sigh.

ORIGINAL: aMaschina

okay mistakes were made [:D]

this means i need many more army HQ now - ive put them reasonably far behind the front, utilizing their 15 range but that means they were not providing support units. sigh.

Army HQs do NOT give out Support Units under any circumstances, only the HQ that directly controls the combat units can do that. They do send out support squads but that is a totally different concept

ORIGINAL: aMaschina

okay mistakes were made [:D]

this means i need many more army HQ now - ive put them reasonably far behind the front, utilizing their 15 range but that means they were not providing support units. sigh.

when you select HQ and if it is controlling combat units that are > 5 hexes then this units will have red border near them. Also you can check commanders report and look for a range column. DTHQ or something similar.

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: aMaschina

okay mistakes were made [:D]

this means i need many more army HQ now - ive put them reasonably far behind the front, utilizing their 15 range but that means they were not providing support units. sigh.

Army HQs do NOT give out Support Units under any circumstances, only the HQ that directly controls the combat units can do that. They do send out support squads but that is a totally different concept

what are support squads?


I know how a german OOB works, you put corps in 5 hexes range to your combat units, the corps holds the support units, the army goes to a depot and so on, it is only the soviet oob that is giving me troubles, since i need the army HQ (or how do you call the first one above the divisional level) in 5 hexes range - this one is also the one holding the support units - what do you put on your depots then?

ORIGINAL: Stamb

ORIGINAL: aMaschina

okay mistakes were made [:D]

this means i need many more army HQ now - ive put them reasonably far behind the front, utilizing their 15 range but that means they were not providing support units. sigh.

when you select HQ and if it is controlling combat units that are > 5 hexes then this units will have red border near them. Also you can check commanders report and look for a range column. DTHQ or something similar.

thank you i know this, it is the missing corps in the soviet OOB that is giving me troubles. the army HQ has a range of 15, but still needs to be within 5 to provide support units

support squads - see 21.2.2 of the manual

yes Soviet armies need to be within 5 hexes of their commanded units, so placement to a depot is nice but not always feasible. However, Front commands actually raise depot capacity by even more than an army command and from early 1942 onwards you often have redundant Soviet army commands - use them to control your logistics systems

HQ contributes ground requirements of a Theatre Box. I add a lot of Troop Commanders and Military Governors in those TBs.

Can I put a lot of units into Russia TB to slow Partisans - roughly how many?

And I have said before SEC, SS. , Mot Inf and Cav units should all have more effect in this TB

Blizzard
Do fort level 3 help more than 2?
Do forts x 2 in a city help more than just the city
Why do MTN units suffer just as much - did they leave all their mountain kit behind

OKH and National Reserve
Units at on map Berlin/ OKH gain CPP. But in NR they do not is that right?
How do units gain trucks when in NR or sitting at Berlin whilst attached to OKH - either way they do not seem to gain from what I see - or is it the whole army is just too short in winter 41.
Some units gain new squads and equipment of the same thing but diff exp levels is that WAD? - I would have thought it would be averaged.

TB
Do units keep their exp when they left the map
R TB
Should it always be at 100%
Is it adjusted for winter 41/ Blizzard in any way?
Why are SEC , SS , Mot and Cav units not having any advantages as these units were either designed of had the hardness/ mobility to take on the Partisans. Low morale Troops would be less effective as would be armour...

Thanks

ORIGINAL: Cavalry Corp

Can I put a lot of units into Russia TB to slow Partisans - roughly how many?

And I have said before SEC, SS. , Mot Inf and Cav units should all have more effect in this TB

if you go over 100% you reduce the severity of the effects (don't stop them), the actual formula is (deliberately) not available. I tend to aim at 130%

oddly they do (poss not motorised) - afaik

ORIGINAL: Cavalry Corp

Blizzard
Do fort level 3 help more than 2?
Do forts x 2 in a city help more than just the city
Why do MTN units suffer just as much - did they leave all their mountain kit behind

OKH and National Reserve
Units at on map Berlin/ OKH gain CPP. But in NR they do not is that right?
How do units gain trucks when in NR or sitting at Berlin whilst attached to OKH - either way they do not seem to gain from what I see - or is it the whole army is just too short in winter 41.
Some units gain new squads and equipment of the same thing but diff exp levels is that WAD? - I would have thought it would be averaged.

TB
Do units keep their exp when they left the map
R TB
Should it always be at 100%
Is it adjusted for winter 41/ Blizzard in any way?
Why are SEC , SS , Mot and Cav units not having any advantages as these units were either designed of had the hardness/ mobility to take on the Partisans. Low morale Troops would be less effective as would be armour...

Thanks

not the easiest post to answer so this follows the order you've used

No
No
because the key to the German problem was logistics and resupply

Yes, Yes
in the reserve they don't, when they come to the map they claim from nearby depots etc, you have to handle this process with some care, esp for Pzr divisions but I have no problem of send to reserve, refit, return with 35+ MP
the average shown say in the CR is for the unit

Yes
what should be at 100% (I'm making a guess that R TB is the reserve theatre box, if its not then I don't understand your question)?
irrelevant
they do